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hello all,
i'm a nursing student. i've been alerted by a few articles, blogs, and forums from which it appears that new grads rns have trouble finding jobs. since i only want to trust reliable sources
i've been doing research all night, and here is information (shocking, unless i'm counting wrong) i've found.
this is from ncsbn satistics, which can be found on their website: https://www.ncsbn.org/1236.htm
statistics by year:
2000
there were 3,103,981 active rn licences in the us
there were 151,982 total new rns(this includes rns getting a license by endorsement,
so let's say about half are new grads)
2005
3,338,888 active licenses in the us
87,864 by nclex (new grads)
77,011 by endorsement
and in 2008 (the most recent year posted):
there were 3,733,299 active licenses
94,321by nclex (new grads)
81,834 by endorsement
now, the bureau of labor statistics at http://www.bls.gov/oco/ocos083.htm newest 2010-11 edition states that
"registered nurses (rns) constitute the largest healthcare occupation, with 2.6 million jobs".
with active license being active for 2 years in most states, we can safely assume that an active license means a person who intends to get a job as a nurse. let's do some math here.
there were 3,733,299 active rn licenses in the us in 2008, and 2,618,700 jobs.
so, there were 1,114,599 nurses without jobs.
this number will be higher in 2018, since about 90,000 persons pass nclex each year.
so in 8 years years there will be 4.5 million licensed rns, and how many jobs, according to bls projections? --
3,200,200
now, i'm a nursing student, i've pretty much put my life on the line to get this degree,
so obviously i don't want to scare myself, or anybody else.
am i reading these numbers incorrectly? are they suggesting that over 1 million people got or renewed their licenses and then
within two years married some rich guys and decided not to work, or that over 1 million people were not looking for work?
or have we been duped? into thinking that there's shortage and high demand, and we are guaranteed to find jobs?
who's going to be responsible for this if this is true and there is a shortage of nursing jobs, not nurses? and if this is true,
what are we going to do about it? demonstrations, protests? or quietly complaining on online forums?
please, share your opinions. i'm extremely concerned about this. i hope that i just don't know how these things are calculated
and my suspicions are all wrong. thank you
Apocryphal at best. Even the Army, which usually has a difficult time recruiting and retaining medical professionals, is full to the brim. As with most careers there are certain environments wherein you can find work -- rural, inner city etc. Unfortunately, I think those opportunities may also dry up considering the amount of nurses being produced every year. We have over 60 graduating every semester in our area (metro
Contrary to popular belief, nursing is NOT recession-proof. We're in the midst of a sluggish economy right now, and nursing has been hit hard in many parts of the country. Many hospitals and other types of healthcare facilities prefer experienced nurses over new grads because the experienced nurse can be up and running independently within a week, whereas the new grad needs lengthy orientation and very expensive preceptorship. Healthcare facilities are businesses who count money down to the last penny, and they view experienced nurses as more cost-effective than the new grad with no nursing work experience.During recessions, patients avoid having elective surgeries because they are fearful of taking the time off work that is needed for full recovery, which results in low hospital census. When hospital census is low, less nurses are needed to keep the floor running. Therefore, less nurses are hired, and the ones who are employed often deal with canceled shifts and smaller paychecks.
More people become unemployed during these rough times and, as a result, lose their health insurance. Uninsured people are definitely not inclined to seek healthcare unless it is an absolute emergency. In addition, medical bills incurred by uninsured patients tend to go unpaid, which means less money for healthcare facilities. Some hospitals have closed or scaled back due to providing care to the uninsured at a financial loss.
While it is an accurate statement that nursing jobs can never be outsourced, always remember that nurses can be "insourced" by recruiting foreign nurses to work at US hospitals. These nurses are less likely to gripe about working evenings, nights, weekends, and holidays because they are earning more money in America than they ever would in their country of origin.
Masses of part-time nurses accept full-time positions during recessions to keep their households afloat when a breadwinner spouse loses his/her job without notice. Many retired nurses are reactivating their nursing licenses and returning to the nursing workforce due to the higher cost of living combined with the effects of depleted retirement funds.
This is just some food for thought. While this chain of events might not apply to your region, it is certainly unfolding before our eyes in many parts of the U.S.
^ This ^
Also, Dear Nursing Students and New Grads:
Please stop thinking that it's only you guys that aren't getting the jobs. Highly experienced nurses aren't getting jobs in this economy, and many of them have to work many states away from home to try and get some work.
Now, about the expense for orientation. That only flies so far. Hospitals get a write-off on that kind of thing. Many things are done online or through the hospitals' Intranet, so the costs for time in orientation is down. The big cost is having to pay two nurses to do the job of one, but this too is a misnomer, b/c really, the experienced nurse is doing now TWO JOBS in orienting, precepting and mentoring the newer nurse as well as having to be responsible for the safe care of her/his assigned pts. Some nurses are good at this, and frankly some just completely suck at it, or they don't want to do it and feel put on to do it.
Now, ultimately a bigger savings can come from hiring new grads, b/c overall, you will pay them less than experienced nurses. And in all honestly, I damn well am sure I will not be OK with getting a GN salary after my many hard-earned years of experience, education, and expertise--especially when there are a lot of yahoos at the top getting hugeeeeeeeee salaries. So here is what some places have opted to do.
They designate a couple times per year for a GN "Internship" for particular areas. They will generally hire the GNs based on the following:
BSN
>3.5 to 4.0 GPA, etc
A number of the folks that get accepted into these "internships" may have a hard way to go, depending upon who their unit educators and other nurse educators are--that is, well, if they are having to deal with highly non-objective, biased jerks. . . .Sorry, I've just seen so much of this. . . The jerks decide, based on likeability or not, or their own insecurity/annoyance factor/s, to keep or knock the nurse/s out. Mostly however, the nursing dpt wants to get the biggest bang for their buck. So, new grads are more attractive b/c:
1. You can pay them less than experienced nurses.
2. They feel they can so easily "mold" them into their desired "image."
3. They will put up with a lot of abuse with regard to getting screwed on the schedule--rotations, weekends, holidays, off-shifts, vacations, etc.
The problem with those darn new GNs is that, well, they eventually get experience and they get a bit wiser and less tolerant of the nonsense. Still, they may have a ways to go on the salary rise, depending upon the area they work, geography, years of experience, demonstration of growth in expertise from novice, etc. But all in all, they are a good deal for the instituions that can do these seasonal mass-hirings into "internships."
Don't be fooled however. The economy has halted hiring at MANY hospitals. Even in desiring to fill more positions, the people on top have mandated severe restrictions, and there are all kinds of games going on nowadays. Also, read DNS' reply above. He or she made some excellent points about nursing now and for the future. It is NOT the same, and it will not be. Things have moved and will continue to move out of the hospital. As DNS has pointed out:
***"The end result is that nursing is going to be a much more intensive profession to enter and to stay employed. "
That is dead on! We have been seeing this movement so much in the last ten years, it isn't funny.
Your best bet is to make sure you have the BSN, keep your GPA up, and get some volunteering and networking under you belts.
It really is tough out there for everyone. Used to be you could get a job in any unit as a GN or newer RN. Not so anymore. It is a buyer's market--just like it is for real estate in many places. They can afford to be as picky as they want to be and take as long as they want to to get back to you or process you. So from that standpoint is doesn't matter much anymore if you have experience or not.
Regardless of what they are saying, nursing is really not the field to get into right now. And if you want something like neonatal ICU or specialized pediatric critical care, etc, well, pretty much, you can forget it. And some pediatric hospitals may hire you, but good luck staying there. Peds and neos can be an outstandishly cliquish arena to get into and stay in. It's hard as can be in many areas to get into the door.
The spots hospitals are hiring for is med-surg. So if you want to get in the door and pay your loans and bills, learn to say, "I love Medical-Surgical Floor Nursing."
Don't worry about the tougher areas (tougher in different ways--med-surg can be downright demanding and requires it's own expertise IMHO).
So, in short:
*Carefully read what DNS has written above and follow up w/ some good research.
*If you still dare to pursue nursing, get the BSN.
*Keep your GPA up.
*Volunteer as much much as you can.
*Network as much as you can.
*Learn to love the idea of applying for Medical-Surgical floor nursing positions, and put thoughts of other areas way back. . .back. . . back on the backburner for now. You will get great experiences in med-surg, learn critical thinking, speed, and efficiency, customer-service delivery, and a lot more. At the same time, you will get your foot in the door and be an insider that is in a much better position for getting into a particular specialty area that wants pre-req. experience, and you will be able to take a salary to pay your bills and loans, as well as the fact that you will get experience and time in which to increase your salary. Finally, you will automatically be networking with people that will help you get to where you want to go in the future. (Well, at least the good folks, not the jerks--you can't really count on them for anything other than loads of unnecessary stress and trouble--and good luck with them. . .Good luck with that in this Oh So Compassionate-based "profession" of nursing.)
Really, good luck. Chin up, and remember, this economy is making it tough all the way around. It's NOT just tough for GNs. In fact, sometimes the GNs get first choice IF the hospital is running say an internship program. Don't worry. You'll get experience and then you'll be in line to get screwed over later. . .LOL. Ah come on. You experienced nurses totally know what I am talking about.
There is a lot of great information in this thread.
The newest trend in my area is to pull LPN's from all medication and treatments. They are not necessarily being layed off- their job duties are becoming strictly nursing assistant responsibilities- for their same LPN pay.
Now- there are many many hospitals in this area... and I have heard of this at two hospitals specifically. Both of these hospitals belong to one MAIN hospital system-and I have not heard that this Main parent hospital is requiring the same of their own LPN's.
I wonder if any one else has seen/heard this. This is unfortunate for the many fantastically experienced LPN's. I believe it is d/t the over abundance of available RN's and the way that minimum requirements to be a"professional" is changing in this country.
Nursing in general is shifting and changing. It's final form is yet to be seen, I believe.
Good luck to all :heartbeat
Maybe I'm just not seeing things through a nurse recruiter's eyes, but based on the people I know who've gotten hired and the people who haven't, I dont' see the more intelligent, eloquent, professional applicants necessarily the ones to bag the desirable jobs.I have another question.
Is nursing experience the only factor necessary to get a job?
What about things like professional demeanor and behavior, physical shape, eloquence, attitude, making a good impression? Is a nurse who posseses the highest qualities more likely to get a job, or to the contrary ? If she/he is perceived as someone who is likely to succeed, can professional jelousy on the part of the hiring person play a role?
There is a lot of great information in this thread.The newest trend in my area is to pull LPN's from all medication and treatments. They are not necessarily being layed off- their job duties are becoming strictly nursing assistant responsibilities- for their same LPN pay.
Is that even legal?
wow..totally terrified. I guess my head was in the sand with so many other people. It doesn't help that my dad constantly says how great it will be when I graduate. I also am totally worried b/c I am only getting my ASN b/c I applied to 13 schools and only got into an ASN program. I really wanted my BSN and actually have extra credits for it. I guess it will help me when I bridge from my ASN-BSN but still, will I have a job? OMG...I have been trying for 10 yrs to get into nursing school for what? this recession? man, I am totally discouraged. I just finished my first semester and its been really stressful for my marriage. My husband is riding on the fact that I will be done in a yr and a half and he can quit his crap job. I just really hope that I get an externship then an internship. Its crazy about the med-surg b/c that is what our professors are drilling into our heads, and they all have worked in peds. so know I know why they are saying that. I am worried now. Did I fight so long for nothing? I mean, I did take off 3 yrs but I have been trying to be a nurse since 2002! I finally got in and now I can't believe the endless amount of posts saying this. I appreciate the honesty its just so hard to bear. I have to just hang on to my faith and know that GOD knows all I have gone through to get here and he knows all I could loose w/o getting a job. I mean, my husbands planing on quitting his job right when I graduate!! Did i mention we have a 3 yr old? wow..no pressure!!!!!! AHH!! thanks for all this info. These are questions I have wanted answered for quite some time!
There is a lot of great information in this thread.The newest trend in my area is to pull LPN's from all medication and treatments. They are not necessarily being layed off- their job duties are becoming strictly nursing assistant responsibilities- for their same LPN pay.
Now- there are many many hospitals in this area... and I have heard of this at two hospitals specifically. Both of these hospitals belong to one MAIN hospital system-and I have not heard that this Main parent hospital is requiring the same of their own LPN's.
I wonder if any one else has seen/heard this. This is unfortunate for the many fantastically experienced LPN's. I believe it is d/t the over abundance of available RN's and the way that minimum requirements to be a"professional" is changing in this country.
Nursing in general is shifting and changing. It's final form is yet to be seen, I believe.
Good luck to all :heartbeat
The newest trend in MY area is to hire nurses as PRN staff and then work them full time. Sounds good, but the pay rate is the SAME as regular staff. It's not per diem - which is considered more $$ in my area. Crazy, but true. I recently worked at a job where I was scheduled full time AND scheduled the same full time call. No, thanks.
I mean, my husbands planing on quitting his job right when I graduate!! Did i mention we have a 3 yr old? wow..no pressure!!!!!! AHH!! thanks for all this info. These are questions I have wanted answered for quite some time!
That doesn't sound like a good idea all around, even if jobs WERE plentiful. Do you really want to be the sole support of the family on one salary?
I really don't think this is something to get angry over.
Access to jobs is cyclical. It correlates with the economy. Nursing, like others have mentioned, is not immune to this.
Additionally, even if you cannot get a job right away, you still got a great education for a great career and will eventually find work.
You may not get your first choice, but how many people do? You are not extra privileged just because you got a nursing degree. Many other professionals have to fight to get the jobs they want.
I have also found that more nurses could be used on many wards - in that way I would argue there is a shortage - but there isn't money being put in to creating the jobs needed. Wards are still short staffed and over worked. The amount of over time can be ridiculous and probably could pay for an additional employee.
I have also been reading up on recent research and you'll find that more funding is going into LPN programs and their scope and number of jobs has been increasing. They are the alternative in an economically tough time.
Even though research supports the premise that a greater RN to patient ratio often presents with better patient outcomes.
PS
"Are they suggesting that over 1 million people got or renewed their licenses and then within two years married some rich guys and decided not to work, or that over 1 million people were not looking for work?"
Really? I think there are many better analogies out there. Way to perpetuate tired female stereotypes.
DNS on the go
50 Posts
The nursing shortage is a myth. It has been a myth for a while. The last true shortage was in the 1980's (1985 to 1987). That shortage was due to an expanding economy were woman had many more choices than to be nurses. Today, their is no shortage except for a few small remote areas in the USA. If you are going into nursing for an easy access to a job, please think again. In NYC, there are very few opening and a glut of experienced, credentialed nurses (MSN, NP, etc) waiting for a chance to be a bedside nurse. Please do not read the nursing press and take what is being said seriously. These papers and magazines are supported by nursing schools who need students. Telling a potential student that jobs are everywhere helps boost enrollment. I am sure you have heard about the shortage of physical therapist and pharmacist...well no more. Those profession like nursing have been over subscribed with too many money chasers think fast bucks are there for the taking. Beside very little real opportunity, the reality of working in these careers is that the work is difficult and draining even for the most dedicated and idealistic. As for the logic that jobs will be opening up when the baby boomers retire, the healthcare system is changing, with jobs being restructured so that less not more workers are needed. Yes the population is older but the shift is coming away from in-patient care to more clinic and out patient services. The model that makes these services cost effective is that the nurses and other professions are excluded with their task assigned to aides/clerks and assistants. Think about when you go to the doctor's office, the doctor and his/her assistants take your vitals, etc. Plus, with technology and advances in medical services the shift is to non hospital based care. The end result is that nursing is going to be a much more intensive profession to enter and to stay employed.
My advice is this: Research what nursing is about, really about and decide if this is the type of work you'd like to persue. The days of fast and easy money are over. Hospitals are struggling businesses and nurses are an expense not a revenue source. As for nursing homes, the nurse are an expense that must be reduced. Nursing school needs to give nurses a real nursing 101..the reality of the trade of nursing. The nursing schools wont do this as they need the students tution to keep their jobs.
Good Luck.