Is this legal? What are your thoughts?

Rionoir, ADN, RN · Sep 3, 2019

Are you sure that person isn't being paid for the call-off? They can absolutely make the person use PTO for a call off, but that would usually entail them also getting paid for the sick time, which is part of PTO. My first reaction to your question is that the person telling you the story either doesn't understand the situation or that they are just being drama. So unless you actually saw the paycheck in question (or it's your paycheck), I'd take it with a grain of salt. If they actually are taking PTO and not paying people for it, I'd quit yesterday.

coffeecup, LPN · Sep 3, 2019

25 minutes ago, Rionoir said:
Are you sure that person isn't being paid for the call-off? They can absolutely make the person use PTO for a call off, but that would usually entail them also getting paid for the sick time, which is part of PTO. My first reaction to your question is that the person telling you the story either doesn't understand the situation or that they are just being drama. So unless you actually saw the paycheck in question (or it's your paycheck), I'd take it with a grain of salt. If they actually are taking PTO and not paying people for it, I'd quit yesterday.

I get them taking PTO for a call off; that's to be expected and is completely reasonable. From what I gathered, if it was any other day, we would be paid for it via PTO. But in the case of a call off the day before or after a holiday, I was told they take PTO, but do not pay the employee. If this is the case, it sounds shady. I just wasn't sure if this was something to be expected, or if I was justified in questioning it. You're right though - I wouldn't know unless I saw the paycheck.

klone, MSN, RN · Sep 3, 2019

No, facilities are not required by law to provide a break room, fridge, microwave. Only time for breaks.

verene, MSN · Sep 4, 2019

47 minutes ago, coffeecup said:
I get them taking PTO for a call off; that's to be expected and is completely reasonable. From what I gathered, if it was any other day, we would be paid for it via PTO. But in the case of a call off the day before or after a holiday, I was told they take PTO, but do not pay the employee. If this is the case, it sounds shady. I just wasn't sure if this was something to be expected, or if I was justified in questioning it. You're right though - I wouldn't know unless I saw the paycheck.

My guess is that they will accept/pay out on PTO for a last minute call out but the holiday pay (which would otherwise be extra) is forfeit (this is how it works were I work for holidays and call outs).

caliotter3 · Sep 4, 2019

Have a discussion with your local Labor Board. They can tell you if there is a legal policy and what to do if your employer isn't playing by the rules.

coffeecup, LPN · Sep 4, 2019

7 minutes ago, verene said:
My guess is that they will accept/pay out on PTO for a last minute call out but the holiday pay (which would otherwise be extra) is forfeit (this is how it works were I work for holidays and call outs).

Makes sense. In your facility, do they still take the PTO for both days, even if you forfeit the holiday pay d/t a call off?

verene, MSN · Sep 4, 2019

1 minute ago, coffeecup said:
Makes sense. In your facility, do they still take the PTO for both days, even if you forfeit the holiday pay d/t a call off?

In my facility holiday pay and PTO are two different banks. Holiday pay is double-time if working or 8 hours regular pay if not scheduled to work on the holiday. If you are scheduled to work the holiday and call off you still get the sick-leave PTO pay - but forfeit the holiday pay and any differentials you would have earned on the shift - and the unscheduled call off and forfeit of holiday pay applies to shifts before/after holiday with in a given window (usually the 24 hours before/after as we are a 24/7 facility). So if you were not scheduled to work Monday (Holiday), but were scheduled for Sunday and called off - you'd forfeit the holiday pay for Monday in addition to using PTO for covering Sunday's shift. Does that make sense?

Sounds like your facility may be slightly different? If PTO and holiday pay are paid same bank/rate at your facility I would guess the facility took the PTO for the call out, and the PTO for holiday, but isn't actually paying out the holiday due to call out. I would check your facility holiday & pay policies.

Sour Lemon · Sep 4, 2019

1 hour ago, coffeecup said:
So, I work in a facility where two things have recently happened. I know policies differ from place to place and state to state, but I'm curious what you guys think.
1. Someone called off on a Friday before the holiday weekend. The facility takes 8 hours from our PTO for holiday pay (Monday), and usually 8 hours for the call off (this is a Monday-Friday facility, no weekend hours). Is it legal for them to take the 8 hours of PTO for the call off, but not pay the employee for it? Is this normal?
2. We were recently told that our break room will now be turned into an exam room for the adjoining office (completely different facility). Is this legal? Is an employer legally required to provide a break room/fridge/microwave?
What are your thoughts?

I'm not sure I'm even following this correctly, but some places give eight hours of PTO for selected holidays. If an employee calls off on the holiday or near the holiday, the bonus PTO is forfeited. They can still use their other PTO hours to make up for the missed day of work.

Rionoir, ADN, RN · Sep 4, 2019

When did companies start giving holiday/sick time/etc in addition to PTO? I remember when PTO first became a thing the whole point was to combine all those things into one so it was less confusing - now it sounds like some places are just taking PTO and adding things to it to make it more confusing than ever. ?

DextersDisciple, BSN, RN · Sep 4, 2019

It’s not illegal and it’s most likely in your facilities policy. My friend was really sick on Thursday but made sure she came in Friday or else she would have not gotten paid for the holiday. We also Work mon-fri with paid 8 hr holidays off.

coffeecup, LPN · Sep 4, 2019

1 hour ago, Sour Lemon said:
I'm not sure I'm even following this correctly, but some places give eight hours of PTO for selected holidays. If an employee calls off on the holiday or near the holiday, the bonus PTO is forfeited. They can still use their other PTO hours to make up for the missed day of work.

That makes sense. We use PTO as "holiday pay." We are a doctor's office, so we're closed or do half days on most holidays. They take 8 hours of PTO to make up for having the holiday off. It sounds like since this person called off the day before the holiday, they forfeited the pay, instead of getting paid for both the call off day and the holiday (even though PTO was taken for both days). If that makes sense.