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Discussion

Is there a best practice for educating pro vaccination?

Good day:

RE: http://www.naturalnews.com/046235_failed_vaccinations_infectious_disease_whooping_cough.html

Without stating the source (aka natural news) is invalid or otherwise picking on the source, how would you take a pro vaccination stance against this type of article? How would you educate those around you who read these types of articles that DTaP (I just got mine a few months ago) is a helpful vaccination?

How would you deal with the articles references to the FDA stating that people who have been vaccinated (including recent vaccinations) can become a carrier and spread the disease?

Also from a pro vaccination standpoint, if acellular type vaccinations are not as effective, which ones (still provided today) are more effective? If we had an acellular vaccination in the recent past 12 months, would you recommend getting a more effective type?

Thank you.

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    • Featured Replies

    My experience has been that when you follow the sources these scaremonger articles give, the source says something much different than what the article says. Additionally science had shown these vaccines to be very safe. It isn't necessary or necessarily worth our time as RNs in practice to try and dissect every antivax article for what it is.. Conspiracy theory. Just my humble opinion.

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    Check out a group called nurses who vaccinate or voices for vaccines for great information on their website or fb

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    • Author

    Good day, onedayitllbeme:

    I'll see what I can find out about those groups. The article I posted was among the first to post sources and make statements where I found it hard to come up with counter statements.

    Thank you.

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    • Guides

    It has been my experience that those who are against vaccination are not even remotely willing to listen to reason or look to reliable scientific studies. There is huge mistrust and nothing we say overcomes it.

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    Didn't read through to see if this was already posted. I know it doesn't contribute much to the discussion substance wise but it's completely apropos and a good laugh

    http://howdovaccinescauseautism.com/

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    • Expert

    If we're not allowed to point out the problems with the website, are we allowed to point out that the author of the article is a well-known quack? Mr. Miller has a BA in psychology (nothing more in terms of actual education or credentials, although he's v. proud of being a member of MENSA) who is making a living from fear-mongering re: vaccinations. In the case of every article he listed as a reference for his article, he took specific quotations from the articles and then interpreted them v. differently than the authors of the articles (legitimate scientists) intended to promote his own point of view. The article he references are all regarding a noted increase in B. pertussis infection and related illness, and look at reasons why that might be happening. They all agree that part of the problem may be that B. pertussis (and B. parapertussis, which causes similar symptoms) may be adapting over time, which is making the old vaccinations less effective. They also note that the DTaP (acellular) vaccination appears to be somewhat less effective than the older DTP (whole cell) vaccination (which is still used in Europe, and could easily be reinstated in the US). However, none of the articles he quotes as references actually suggest that vaccinations are not a good idea, or advocate for not vaccinating. In fact, just the opposite -- they all advocate for more vaccination, of more people, more frequently.

    He quotes an FDA press release as saying that "cocooning" (vaccinating all adults who live with infants) is "unlikely to benefit infants." However, the actually article (on a study done on infant baboons) from the Proceedings of the National Academy of Science on which the FDA is reporting (and which is also listed as a reference in his article) actually states:

    These data suggest that cocooning is unlikely to be an effective strategy to reduce the burden of pertussis in infants. However, it is important to note that our data in combination with human data show that vaccination with aP provides excellent protection from severe pertussis (52). Therefore, any short-term plan for addressing the resurgence of pertussis should include continued efforts to enhance aP immunization. (Emphasis mine.) Acellular pertussis vaccines protect against disease but fail to prevent infection and transmission in a nonhuman primate model

    The articles in Vaccine and Pediatrics that he references call for more vaccination, of all age groups, at more frequent intervals. I'm sure the legitimate-scientist authors of the articles he quotes are not happy (if they are aware) that he is twisting their research to promote his crackpot agenda and line his own pockets. (As one of the many websites debunking him points out, he has no legitimate credentials or background in biology, chemistry, immunology, etc., "but he has Google and he knows how to use it." :))

    But, getting back to your original question, if people don't know any better than to believe any wackadoodle nonsense they read on the internet, I don't know what to tell them.

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    I deal with this EVERY day. It honestly gets so old. Most of the people who are against vaccines will not change. They don't care about facts, statistics, research, education, common sense, etc. Most think that you are part of some conspiracy (if only I got paid extra for each vaccine I give). My response to that is always.. So you trust us enough to make EVERY other desicion for your child, even in life or death situations, but you don't trust us about something as simple as vaccines. Some of our MD's dismiss those who won't vaccinate (unless of course they cannot for certain health reasons), which I support 100%.

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    I have a bunch of people on Facebook who are constantly posting anti vax news and how they are so terrible. There is no changing people who firmly believe these conspiracy theories. I used to say things but I just let it go anymore because no matter what I would say, I was wrong. After taking microbiology, I am more adamant than ever that vaccines are important, but I cannot change people's deeply held beliefs. Now if someone was trying to make the decision and was on the fence, I would give them all the info I could and back it up with evidence. Those are the people we need to target. Those who are deeply committed to their beliefs, we will not change.

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    Pmabraham: if u were unable to come up with counter statements I think you might have not read the sources or understood them completely. I world really recommend trying again to link a source to a natural news article and then do the same thing with a referenced article in a reputable website like medscape, medlineplus, or even mayo clinic. You'll see a big difference.

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    I think of this topic as my everyday life! I am very regularly, in the course of my job, educating patients on everything from diabetes management to wound care to infection control to nutrition and vaccinations.

    I find that those who are genuinely interested are most likely to absorb what I'm telling them, and those who have stated "I DON'T VACCINATE MY KIDS" or "I ONLY GET SICK WHEN I GET THE FLU SHOT" are not likely to change their opinion (or even actually listen).

    How to handle it? Address the issue as appropriate. Offer sound, credible information, and then leave it up to them. Ignorance tends to breed ignorance, so I've seen multi-generational disregard for sound medical advice. Nothing to do there but natural selection take its toll!

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    • Author

    Good day:

    FYI, the reason I asked for information on how to be pro vaccination (I'm almost done with all of mine for clinicals) is that too often I see one side state that a given news source is invalid without proof or in the face of too much evidence to the contrary. While I do have my problem with certain news sources (aka Huffington Post for one), I would rather address the issues an given article addresses rather than attack the source by stating the source is invalid.

    Thank you for sharing Acellular pertussis vaccines protect against disease but fail to prevent infection and transmission in a nonhuman primate model Am I correct that the bottom line is "attaining herd immunity will require the development of improved vaccination strategies that prevent B. pertussis colonization and transmission" which would imply the current method doesnt' work well? As I've shared, I had a dTap, and would like to know if there's a better vaccination for handlining Bordetella pertussis.

    If it matters, those whom I want to convince are family members who are not conspiracy theorists, but run in circles with people who are trying to find answers. I.e. one family friend has a son who is autistic enough he needs daily support (he's in his 20's) unable to live completely on his own. While I'm slowly working through to them about the studies linking autism to vaccination, when brand new stuff comes out like the article I posted in the opening thread, it doesn't help as they are then pulled to the anti-side again.

    In the end, I realize there will be no convincing everyone, but I would like to stay up on counters so that if I'm asked, I'm not blind sided. I did find the website and FB page for Nurses who Vaccinate as well as the other one; thank you.

    Thank you.

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    • Expert

    Feel free to read all the legitimate articles, by real scientists, in legitimate scientific journals, that Mr. Miller lists as references at the end of his opinion piece. Google is our friend as much as it is Mr. Miller's. I was able to find the full text of all the articles he cites within a few minutes.

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