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Is there a best practice for educating pro vaccination?

Posted

Specializes in Hospice, Palliative Care. Has 3 years experience.

Good day:

RE: http://www.naturalnews.com/046235_failed_vaccinations_infectious_disease_whooping_cough.html

Without stating the source (aka natural news) is invalid or otherwise picking on the source, how would you take a pro vaccination stance against this type of article? How would you educate those around you who read these types of articles that DTaP (I just got mine a few months ago) is a helpful vaccination?

How would you deal with the articles references to the FDA stating that people who have been vaccinated (including recent vaccinations) can become a carrier and spread the disease?

Also from a pro vaccination standpoint, if acellular type vaccinations are not as effective, which ones (still provided today) are more effective? If we had an acellular vaccination in the recent past 12 months, would you recommend getting a more effective type?

Thank you.

My experience has been that when you follow the sources these scaremonger articles give, the source says something much different than what the article says. Additionally science had shown these vaccines to be very safe. It isn't necessary or necessarily worth our time as RNs in practice to try and dissect every antivax article for what it is.. Conspiracy theory. Just my humble opinion.

Check out a group called nurses who vaccinate or voices for vaccines for great information on their website or fb

pmabraham, BSN, RN

Specializes in Hospice, Palliative Care. Has 3 years experience.

Good day, onedayitllbeme:

I'll see what I can find out about those groups. The article I posted was among the first to post sources and make statements where I found it hard to come up with counter statements.

Thank you.

Nurse SMS, MSN, RN

Specializes in Critical Care; Cardiac; Professional Development. Has 10 years experience.

It has been my experience that those who are against vaccination are not even remotely willing to listen to reason or look to reliable scientific studies. There is huge mistrust and nothing we say overcomes it.

BeachsideRN, ASN

Specializes in NICU, Trauma, Oncology. Has 7 years experience.

Didn't read through to see if this was already posted. I know it doesn't contribute much to the discussion substance wise but it's completely apropos and a good laugh

http://howdovaccinescauseautism.com/

If we're not allowed to point out the problems with the website, are we allowed to point out that the author of the article is a well-known quack? Mr. Miller has a BA in psychology (nothing more in terms of actual education or credentials, although he's v. proud of being a member of MENSA) who is making a living from fear-mongering re: vaccinations. In the case of every article he listed as a reference for his article, he took specific quotations from the articles and then interpreted them v. differently than the authors of the articles (legitimate scientists) intended to promote his own point of view. The article he references are all regarding a noted increase in B. pertussis infection and related illness, and look at reasons why that might be happening. They all agree that part of the problem may be that B. pertussis (and B. parapertussis, which causes similar symptoms) may be adapting over time, which is making the old vaccinations less effective. They also note that the DTaP (acellular) vaccination appears to be somewhat less effective than the older DTP (whole cell) vaccination (which is still used in Europe, and could easily be reinstated in the US). However, none of the articles he quotes as references actually suggest that vaccinations are not a good idea, or advocate for not vaccinating. In fact, just the opposite -- they all advocate for more vaccination, of more people, more frequently.

He quotes an FDA press release as saying that "cocooning" (vaccinating all adults who live with infants) is "unlikely to benefit infants." However, the actually article (on a study done on infant baboons) from the Proceedings of the National Academy of Science on which the FDA is reporting (and which is also listed as a reference in his article) actually states:

These data suggest that cocooning is unlikely to be an effective strategy to reduce the burden of pertussis in infants. However, it is important to note that our data in combination with human data show that vaccination with aP provides excellent protection from severe pertussis (52). Therefore, any short-term plan for addressing the resurgence of pertussis should include continued efforts to enhance aP immunization. (Emphasis mine.) Acellular pertussis vaccines protect against disease but fail to prevent infection and transmission in a nonhuman primate model

The articles in Vaccine and Pediatrics that he references call for more vaccination, of all age groups, at more frequent intervals. I'm sure the legitimate-scientist authors of the articles he quotes are not happy (if they are aware) that he is twisting their research to promote his crackpot agenda and line his own pockets. (As one of the many websites debunking him points out, he has no legitimate credentials or background in biology, chemistry, immunology, etc., "but he has Google and he knows how to use it." :))

But, getting back to your original question, if people don't know any better than to believe any wackadoodle nonsense they read on the internet, I don't know what to tell them.

xoemmylouox, ASN, RN

Has 13 years experience.

I deal with this EVERY day. It honestly gets so old. Most of the people who are against vaccines will not change. They don't care about facts, statistics, research, education, common sense, etc. Most think that you are part of some conspiracy (if only I got paid extra for each vaccine I give). My response to that is always.. So you trust us enough to make EVERY other desicion for your child, even in life or death situations, but you don't trust us about something as simple as vaccines. Some of our MD's dismiss those who won't vaccinate (unless of course they cannot for certain health reasons), which I support 100%.

NurseGirl525, ASN, RN

Specializes in ICU.

I have a bunch of people on Facebook who are constantly posting anti vax news and how they are so terrible. There is no changing people who firmly believe these conspiracy theories. I used to say things but I just let it go anymore because no matter what I would say, I was wrong. After taking microbiology, I am more adamant than ever that vaccines are important, but I cannot change people's deeply held beliefs. Now if someone was trying to make the decision and was on the fence, I would give them all the info I could and back it up with evidence. Those are the people we need to target. Those who are deeply committed to their beliefs, we will not change.

Pmabraham: if u were unable to come up with counter statements I think you might have not read the sources or understood them completely. I world really recommend trying again to link a source to a natural news article and then do the same thing with a referenced article in a reputable website like medscape, medlineplus, or even mayo clinic. You'll see a big difference.

I think of this topic as my everyday life! I am very regularly, in the course of my job, educating patients on everything from diabetes management to wound care to infection control to nutrition and vaccinations.

I find that those who are genuinely interested are most likely to absorb what I'm telling them, and those who have stated "I DON'T VACCINATE MY KIDS" or "I ONLY GET SICK WHEN I GET THE FLU SHOT" are not likely to change their opinion (or even actually listen).

How to handle it? Address the issue as appropriate. Offer sound, credible information, and then leave it up to them. Ignorance tends to breed ignorance, so I've seen multi-generational disregard for sound medical advice. Nothing to do there but natural selection take its toll!

pmabraham, BSN, RN

Specializes in Hospice, Palliative Care. Has 3 years experience.

Good day:

FYI, the reason I asked for information on how to be pro vaccination (I'm almost done with all of mine for clinicals) is that too often I see one side state that a given news source is invalid without proof or in the face of too much evidence to the contrary. While I do have my problem with certain news sources (aka Huffington Post for one), I would rather address the issues an given article addresses rather than attack the source by stating the source is invalid.

Thank you for sharing Acellular pertussis vaccines protect against disease but fail to prevent infection and transmission in a nonhuman primate model Am I correct that the bottom line is "attaining herd immunity will require the development of improved vaccination strategies that prevent B. pertussis colonization and transmission" which would imply the current method doesnt' work well? As I've shared, I had a dTap, and would like to know if there's a better vaccination for handlining Bordetella pertussis.

If it matters, those whom I want to convince are family members who are not conspiracy theorists, but run in circles with people who are trying to find answers. I.e. one family friend has a son who is autistic enough he needs daily support (he's in his 20's) unable to live completely on his own. While I'm slowly working through to them about the studies linking autism to vaccination, when brand new stuff comes out like the article I posted in the opening thread, it doesn't help as they are then pulled to the anti-side again.

In the end, I realize there will be no convincing everyone, but I would like to stay up on counters so that if I'm asked, I'm not blind sided. I did find the website and FB page for Nurses who Vaccinate as well as the other one; thank you.

Thank you.

NurseGirl525, ASN, RN

Specializes in ICU.

The thing that is touchy with parents of children with autism is there is no answer to what the issue is with autism. I think when your child had a devastating illness, the parent wants an answer. Why is this happening to their child? Why their child and not their neighbor's? It helps them reconcile the whole thing in their brains. Add to the fact that we live in a society where celebrities are worshipped and you have a few that have come out to be anti vax, that compounds the problem. People think well Jenny McCarthy and Kristen Bell can afford the best doctors so if it ok for them, it's ok for me. When in all reality these careless statements from these people do not have the backing of their childrens' pediatricians.

Until a cause a treatment come along for autism, this is going to be a hard one. I know your intentions are good, pmabraham, you are just up against a tough group.

The thing that is touchy with parents of children with autism is there is no answer to what the issue is with autism. I think when your child had a devastating illness, the parent wants an answer.

There is one answer, and that is that the original study that raised the possibility of a connection between autism and vaccines was seriously flawed, the British journal that originally published it has since withdrawn it and denounced the author and study, and multiple studies since then have found no connection. I have some understanding of desperate parents (my field is child psych), but beople who still are inclined to take this seriously are people who would rather believe celebrities and quacks than actual science, and what can you say to people like that?

. People think well Jenny McCarthy and Kristen Bell can afford the best doctors so if it ok for them, it's ok for me. When in all reality these careless statements from these people do not have the backing of their childrens' pediatricians.

I remember well when Jenny McCarthy announced several years ago that her son was "recovering" from autism due to her routine of vitamins, chelation therapy (removing of metals from the blood--seriously controversal), GFCF diet, etc. Yep, SHE knew how to make him "well".

Guess what? Her kid is still autistic. Every treatment money can buy. Still autistic.

She was convinced the MMR vax did it to him; she cited Wakefield ad nausem, and website propaganda. She wasn't going to let something silly like FACTS get in the way of her claims.

But then, as she's a former nude model, OF COURSE she's a leading expert in neurological disorders.....

NurseGirl525, ASN, RN

Specializes in ICU.

There is one answer, and that is that the original study that raised the possibility of a connection between autism and vaccines was seriously flawed, the British journal that originally published it has since withdrawn it and denounced the author and study, and multiple studies since then have found no connection. I have some understanding of desperate parents (my field is child psych), but beople who still are inclined to take this seriously are people who would rather believe celebrities and quacks than actual science, and what can you say to people like that?

And that what I am saying, they are just so desperate for any answer, they will listen to defunct science until a true answer is found. It is sad in my opinion that this is what happens, but it does. These people will say well if not the vaccine, then what is the answer? And you don't have one. I have seen some promising research with GMOs and autism. I did a couple of research papers last year on GMOs and this seems to be one area to investigate. I just can't imagine how hard it is for these parents. You probably question what you could have done to prevent it and sadly there was nothing they could do. It just has to be hard for your child to be sick and not have any answers.

BeachsideRN, ASN

Specializes in NICU, Trauma, Oncology. Has 7 years experience.

The fact is that until the research can show what causes autism (whether it be genetic or some other mechanism) people, especially parents, will grasp at anything they can as a reason. As humans it is hard for us to understand the inexplicable.