Is anyone else uncomfortable with this?

nursejohio, ASN, RN · Mar 8, 2007

While I didn't read all (or even the majority) of the 68 pages of regulations related to the medication aids in Ohio, what I did read made sense to me. The aides only give PO, topical, inhaler or suppository meds. No narcs, IVs or injections.

The RNs delegate to them, but the OBN says "A registered nurse or a licensed practical nurse acting at the direction of a registered nurse, who delegates the administration of medications to a certified medication aide in accordance with section 4723.67 of the Revised Code and this chapter, shall not be liable in damages to any person or government entity in a civil action for injury, death, or loss to person or property that allegedly arises from an action or omission of the certified medication aide in the administration of the medications."

It also says that the aides do not give the initial dose of any medication, and as far as I can tell, only applies to ltc type facilities. It really wouldn't do any good to have them in hospitals anyway, because almost every day at least one med is new or changed. If I was an ecf nurse, with 16-25 residents to make multiple med passes on, I'd be saying bring on the CMAs. I watched the nurses push the med cart up and down the halls literally all day, often staying over to chart because of the amount of meds, treatments etc they had to do during their shift. Anything to safely reduce the load on those angels is a step in the right direction

stillpressingon · Mar 8, 2007

What are CMT's and EN's?

GLORIAmunchkin72 · Mar 8, 2007

"I know I should be thankful when a CMT is on my floor and passes my meds for me, but it makes me somewhat uncomfortable and I feel the need to pass the meds myself."

By all means, if you're not comfortable, insist on passing your own meds.

jill48, ASN, RN · Mar 9, 2007

Thank you, ccyrrus, for such a diplomatic answer.
I just started the cma training program in SW Ohio, and I will say it is intense! Perhaps I will have time this weekend to put up a course outline - so far it has been study, study, study!
There are 8 students per class, 80 hours of classroom, and 40 hours of clinical, which will be done 1 on 1 with an instructor. Then we take the state tests, both written and skill test, with state nurses.
I suggest that the people who are in such doubt over this program read up on it - the OBN has a website that explains everything, including the fact that the nurse is NOT responsible for the cma`s actions - only in extenuating circumstances. And there is much information in the nursing magazines and newsletters.
We will be accountable to, and answer to, the OBN the same way the LPN`s and RN`s do. And that is as it should be.
:deadhorse

I understand that med techs take classes, exams, have clinical hours, etc. I'm not under any circumstances saying that you are not qualified to give medications. My concern is that although you are educated on how and when to pass meds, you do not have the same education as me when it comes to observing for signs/symptoms or adverse reactions/what dosages are normal/what other meds and foods may interact with their scheduled meds/etc. I remember having to memorized all kinds of meds: their uses, routes, dosages, interactions, adverse effects, expected effects, etc. Your 80 hours of class amounts to 10 eight hour days; and your 40 hours of clinical amounts to 4 ten hour days. That doesn't even compare to my 2 years of education. :smackingf

ddoosier · Mar 9, 2007

CMT's have a purpose. Psych techs pass meds in CA (Tazzi...love your quote..lol). In anycase, I would not feel comfortable allowing a CMT working under my license blindly. Meaning....did they look up the med, are they aware of the dosage, SE, are they REALLY practicing the 5 rights..ect? Passing meds is a lot of responsibility and it is not something that I would delegate lightly. Heck, I pull out the med book many times during a shift and I sure don't have the time to verify and supervise a CMT. Sounds like added work for us. :nono:

RosesAreBlue · Mar 9, 2007

I can see letting a med aid pass pills, maybe even set up nebulizers, but unless they have VERY extensive training if I were a LVN/RN I think I'd uncomfortable with someone else handling the medications for MY patients that I am responible for when I'm on the floor. Books can wait, those people come first.

angelwingsamy · Mar 9, 2007

i am a student in the RN program and yes our instructor has to make sure we do it right. and it is also up to the RN to double check us.

lovemyblacklab · Mar 9, 2007

If someone hasn't stated it already you had better check with your state's licensing authority to find out about delegating responsibilities like handing out meds by an unlicensed person. Personally I wouldn't let my license hang on the line like that. Even if the state board authorized it. Be careful.

SE_BSN_RN, BSN · Mar 9, 2007

Thank you, ccyrrus, for such a diplomatic answer.
I just started the cma training program in SW Ohio, and I will say it is intense! Perhaps I will have time this weekend to put up a course outline - so far it has been study, study, study!
There are 8 students per class, 80 hours of classroom, and 40 hours of clinical, which will be done 1 on 1 with an instructor. Then we take the state tests, both written and skill test, with state nurses.
I suggest that the people who are in such doubt over this program read up on it - the OBN has a website that explains everything, including the fact that the nurse is NOT responsible for the cma`s actions - only in extenuating circumstances. And there is much information in the nursing magazines and newsletters.
We will be accountable to, and answer to, the OBN the same way the LPN`s and RN`s do. And that is as it should be.
:deadhorse

And those extenuating circumstances would be.....the death of the patient, the nurse being sued and his/her career ruined by this non-licensed person?

caliotter3 · Mar 9, 2007

My state's BRN has a position paper concerning the responsibility of the RN as to Unlicensed Assistive Personnel. I read it once. Sure seemed like the RN is responsible for all lower ranking personnel under their supervision. And I can speak from experience, when it comes time for a lawsuit, the plaintiffs cast a net far and wide. To think that the CMA would be solely responsible in such an instance is denial if I ever saw it. After all, it is common sense that the plaintiff will assume that the farther up the totem pole they go, the more assets will be available.

kdblueey · Mar 9, 2007

it actually pissed me off when i first heard/read about this. this is part of being a nurse, whether lpn, or rn. we all had to take dosage calculations class, as well as pharmacology. i wouldn't want someone giving my patients (or any other) medications without a license that was well earned....

kathy, rn

ohio

SE_BSN_RN, BSN · Mar 9, 2007

My state's BRN has a position paper concerning the responsibility of the RN as to Unlicensed Assistive Personnel. I read it once. Sure seemed like the RN is responsible for all lower ranking personnel under their supervision. And I can speak from experience, when it comes time for a lawsuit, the plaintiffs cast a net far and wide. To think that the CMA would be solely responsible in such an instance is denial if I ever saw it. After all, it is common sense that the plaintiff will assume that the farther up the totem pole they go, the more assets will be available.

Yes ma'am I agree 100%!! I have been told that if I am working on the floor and am not assigned to the patient, if they know my name, I can be sued, too. Which is why I don't like my last name on my name badge. I am the only one in the facility with such a unique first name, they don't even need my last name. I think it puts my safety in jeapordy, too, especially since you can go on the county website and get my home address, and get info on when I bought my home, how much I paid for it, how many square feet it is and if I paid my property taxes...