Intimidated Nurse, Informed Patient, and WebMD

[rnccf2007]

Just writing to see if anyone else has experienced anything like I did the other night. Had a patient admitted from the ED. Fifteen family members (I kid you not), followed her to our floor and went directly to her room. There are no restrictions on the number of visitors or time of day in my facility r/t the "ultimate Hilton experience" for our patients. We politely asked them to leave the room twice, so that we could assess the patient and hook her up to the tele monitor. They were either deaf or chose to ignore us. We then hooked her up to the tele unit while trying to bare her breasts as little as possible as sons, daughters, and grandchildren looked on. I found this quite bizarre. As I was doing the admission assessment, two of her sons who were 6 feet + got in my way and stood almost chest to chest with me and refused to move out of my way until I said "excuse me" twice. And...if looks could kill. Having worked with the public in various ways including the criminal justice system, I am not easily intimidated. To be honest I was getting really irritated. I was then grilled for over an hour about orders that the doctor had written (he had talked with the family in the ED and explained the plan of care) , asked some very strange and detailed physiological questions, and was educated on how to properly administer BP, DM, and cardiac meds. It was obvious that my inquisitors did not have a clue and were attempting to appear self-important and informed while making complete asses out of themselves. As this was happening; both the bodyguards were playing with their cell phones, and I did not think much of it, because texting and multitasking appears to be an American (and probably foreign) obsession. I left the room to get the patient a blanket and the CTA assigned to this patient said, "Wow, it's amazing how ignorant people are....what they did to you...they were harassing you as they were looking up information on WebMD." I had to laugh, because I was completely unaware. I guess I am the fool, since I went to college to wipe butts and continue to advance my education and pay student loans, when all I had to do was go on WebMD and get my education for free. I am all for an educated and informed public, but seems that there is a growing trend to self diagnose. There are some real horror stories out there r/t this. If people feel that they are their own best physicians, nurses, or other healthcare worker they should stay at HOME!!!! ... The doctor was still on the floor. I went back into the room and politely told the family that they doctor and WebMD would be in shortly to answer any questions.

[Ambersmom, BSN, RN]

yup have had similar situations, not as many family members. I just usually answered their questions with a question "what did the doctor say about that".

[Ambersmom, BSN, RN]

on a funnier note, I was discussing a med with someone who them told me "I was not an expert"(I'd only been giving that med in various forms and routes for a few decades) she informed me she knew more about that drug than I did since she had researched it on WebMD, she was a real estate agent.

[Horseshoe, BSN, RN]

As a family member who may have been viewed as being in the way I feel that I need to weigh in on this. Recently, I saw a family member totally stripped of their dignity by icu nurses for no medical reason. If I had been in the room when it all started I may have been able to help my family member. I will never forget how this person was treated nor will I forgive the nurses who gathered around like a gaggle of geese insisting that their way was the right way and did not call a doctor when it was requested. Although the patient has recovered, that experience has left a bad taste in my mouth and has ruined my opinion of caregivers, that at one time I had respected as being called to their profession. I will be more watchful from now on and will have the patient advocate phone number in my contacts at all time. Or I will use the web to research and find it for whatever hospital I am in and I will report transgressions for other patients as well. There will be no turning of my head when I see a patient's dignity being infringed upon by anyone.

On the other hand having a roomful of people is not necessary and they need to have respect for the professional caregivers. But the professional caregivers need to have respect for their patients and take care not to strip them of their dignity and to not intimidate just to get their way or out of spite because a fellow employee has them out of sorts. By intimidating a patient, unless they are out of control and a danger to themselves or others, you are no longer their advocate.

As far as doing research on WbMed, I have a right to do research and ask knowledgeable questions that may help in my care. If I had not done my own research, I would not have known that I was having dangerous adverse reactions to medications because the doctors kept assuring me I was not having a reaction. Actually at one point, I was offered another medication to control the reaction I was having rather than alternative treatment. Once I went to an allergist he could not believe that the doctors had allowed me to continue the medication.

I am just trying to understand why patient dignity is not respected by some professional caregivers and why if a patient has a legitimate question it is not permissible to ask that question. If I have been allergic to a specific medication for over 50 years, I have the right to ask a doctor why they would prescribe something from the same family. Why isn't the patient supposed to be part of their care?

Okay, I just realized this thread is over SIX YEARS old! How do people even find threads like these?

[JKL33]

An axe to grind.

I wish old threads would become read-only after a certain amount of time with no activity.

[Wuzzie]

Remember in most cases the spokesperson is only wanting the best care and is concerned for their family member. While I realize that some family members can come unglued and may be seen as being in the way, most are only trying to support the person who may be the love of their life or a beloved parent who has always been there to protect and care for them. I am not trying to argue just wanting to put a different perspective on intimidation.

After a recent experience, I now know that as a patient or spokesperson I can request the Nursing Supervisor to help get the situation under control in the room for the patient's benefit as well. There is no reason for nurses to be standing in a patient's room discussing other nurses, arguing over what is being presented on a monitor, refusing to listen to the patient or the spokesperson or refusing to respect the patient's dignity. There is no reason for a patient or spokesperson to feel so intimidated that they do not speak up for themselves. There is no reason for a patient or spokesperson to be afraid to speak up because they are concerned how that person will be treated once they have left the room. There is no reason for the spokesperson to be forced to leave and then have to sit and pray that their loved one is being cared for properly and that they won't have treatment because of implied consent under a drug that was administered to help them relax.

While I was raised to respect caregivers. I also expect them to respect me. I realize that at times things have to be done in an emergency that puts a patient in an embarrassing position. Actually I have been in a position such as that that saved my baby's life. But to stand over a patient and expect them to be compliant when you have basically stripped them of the last bit of dignity they have left is morally wrong. Then to become flustered and angry because they have asked for their dignity to be restored is also morally wrong. If a patient is coherent and says "No" it is "No!".

You would be better served to air your displeasure with the facility that actually caused you to be upset. We cannot do anything to rectify this for you. This forum is for nurses and you will not likely achieve whatever your goal is by airing it here. Most of us have had family members or other loved ones in the hospital so we see both sides of things which, since you are not a nurse, you cannot do. As such you will likely find resistance and a less than warm reaction to your posts. It's not that we don't care but this just isn't the place for it. It would be like one of us going on to a teacher's forum and telling them how to do their job better because we googled it. Best wishes as you take care of your loved ones.

[Davey Do]

An axe to grind.

I wish old threads would become read-only after a certain amount of time with no activity.

Agreed.

But JLK, if this would have been a read-only thread, I wouldn't have been able to read the beautifically poetic responses that were given.

Present company definitely in the forefront!

Edit: BTW- I read only the most recent entries.

[Davey Do]

You would be better served to air your displeasure with the facility that actually caused you to be upset... Best wishes as you take care of your loved ones.

Great advice,Wuzzie. Well thought out and written post. (I saw no need to copy the entire thing.)

It is so much easier to feel apathy toward words on a screen, i.e. "you will likely find resistance and a less than warm reaction to your posts". But it seems trytounderstand needed to air her feelings and, perhaps, feel like she could effect a change at the same time.

I see no harm in that. But if trytounderstand has a desire to settle a vendetta against caregivers as a whole, well then...

[Davey Do]

the professional caregivers need to have respect for their patients and take care not to strip them of their dignity

When I interviewed for the LPN program back in '82*, the director asked me why I wanted to become a nurse.

I relayed a tale of when I was in the hospital with one leg in traction and both arms in casts after an MVA. The CNAs stripped me naked, gave me a bed bath that was more like a beating, changed the TV station without asking, and talked loudly about this, that, & the other thing. I felt violated.

What I conveyed to the director of LPN program was that I wanted to care for patients and protect their dignity. Her reply to me was, "You wanted to light a candle instead of cursing the darkness".

In my scenario of the bed bath from hell, the supervisor was informed. The bed baths went much better after that.

Edit: I neglected to say that I often harken back to the bed bath from hell whenever I'm providing hygienic measures to my incontinent GeroPsych patients. I try to make sure they have no reason to feel as I did.

*Edit Edit: It was 1981 when I interviewed for the LPN program, because I worked and saved money to pay for it in 1982.

[trytounderstand]

I apologize if I have offended anyone. But this experience broke my heart in more ways than anyone can ever understand to see the broken look in their eye and to know how embarrassed they were for no medical reason. I was just trying to give a perspective from a family member's point of view and how difficult it is to be the patient or the one watching when things go down the wrong path and no one is taking a breath and listening to each other.

I have had wonderful experiences with nurses: the one who saved my grandchild right after birth. The midwife and nurses who helped bring my daughter into the world. The one who after this bad experience treated my family member with respect and dignity. The doctors and nurses who fought to save my father's life but could not in the end. The nurse who cleaned a terrible gaping wound before the plastic surgeon did the repair.

It is not that I feel that all nurses are responsible and I did not mean that by putting the post on here. I just was trying to give another perspective on intimidation because at times the patient and the family members feel very intimidated by some nurses and some doctors. Perhaps they have been in the past and that is why they may over react and be in the way. They may not want to see it happen again. I too have witnessed family members being overbearing and causing disturbance not only to the nurse but the patient they are with and the ones around them.