Interesting article on Obama health care plan

whoknows56 · May 11, 2009

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/30672330/
as i was reading the article i came across the following line...
"and hospitals and doctors are concerned the government could dictate what they get paid to care for any patient, not only the elderly and the poor."
i would appreciate the expertise of your opinions on the matter since i'm a newbie but it seems like eventually hospital budgets could get squeezed to the point where they have to lower everyone's salaries (including nurses).
i looked through some previous threads on universal healthcare but it just seems like whoever actually asks the question of "will universal healthcare drive nursing salaries down?" just seems to get flame'd into submission to not even think about it.
thank you for your help.

one of the last things i want to see is doctors being salaried. i think having salaried doctors would be a real bad thing. i don't have time to elaborate on the reasons right now.

Koyaanisqatsi-RN · May 11, 2009

The fear is over the potential waiting lists that may come from universal health care. It's a very real possibility as it has happened in Canada and Britain, however we can't be certain if it will in fact happen in America. We can only wait until it comes to fruition to find out. IMHO, with the general shortage of health care staff, it will happen.
The second fear may or may not happen. Will there be an option to purchase private insurance for private health care. If not, it seems unjust to limit one's ability to receive better and/or quicker health care when they have the willingness to pay for it. If it is allowed, those that will pay for private insurance will also be paying for the universal care, and no one likes paying twice for the same thing.
I resent your leftist coined term of "fear-mongering." It a legitimate fear. The true outcome of universal health care in America will just have to be seen firsthand.

Yes, you might have to wait for some things longer than you do now. So what? We already have people dropping dead in the emergency room all over the country. For most NON ESSENTIAL SERVICES, a little wait isn't going to kill anyone. I know we are used to getting immediate treatment every single time our little tummy hurts, but this has spoiled us, and as a result we pay exponentially more for health care, and get LESS than every other country.

Learn to set some priorities. Getting care RIGHT NOW when it can wait 3 days isn't a big priority on my list. Neither, as Sue said, is spending a ridiculous amount of money on heroic, wasteful end-of-life measures that do no good.

Junebugfairy · May 11, 2009

waiting lists for services are not 3 'days' though, there are waiting lists for months for services..

i like the idea of a dual system! i love my personally purchased health plan and i would like to keep it, but i would love to see an option for those who cannot afford it.

i am a libertarian, i do not see health care as a 'right'.

SuesquatchRN, BSN, RN · May 11, 2009

i am a libertarian, i do not see health care as a 'right'.

y'know, i don't, either, but i also clothe, feed and nurture some neighbor kids whose parents are a little, well, negligent, and now have six cats because another stray found our back door and food.

it's not a matter of whether it's a "right." it isn't. however, i will never be able to understand how someone with a compassionate heart can see another person suffer or do without and not want to help, even if that person may have contributed to his own lousy status in life.

each other. we're all we've got.

azhiker96, BSN, RN · May 11, 2009

I like the idea of a government system with supplemental insurance available through private companies. Hopefully the government would ration and refuse futile treatments so that more could be spent on prevention and wellness. I've seen a pt with multisystem failure in a rotation bed that could not be rotated or moved from the device because any motion caused her to decompensate. The family insisted that she be a full code and she was on ACCESS so the taxpayers get to foot the bill. I wouldn't begrudge the treatments if they were paying for it but when we pay we should have a say.

SharonH, RN · May 11, 2009

One of the last things I want to see is doctors being salaried. I think having salaried doctors would be a real bad thing. I don't have time to elaborate on the reasons right now.

Are you familiar with Kaiser? The docs there work on salary. It's not the end of the world....

Hushdawg · May 12, 2009

one of the reasons Americans are leery of universal healthcare is the fear of "big government". We like to have some independence and choice.

The problem is that we DO NOT have any choice in the current situation, corporate heads and insurance companies decide what procedures we are allowed to have based on financial cost/benefit matrix conclusions rather than allowing real medical care to take place.

In the USA we WOULD have better control because we elect people to the positions of power which would affect the universal healthcare directly.

Another is that in universal healthcare the providers (MDs, Nurses, everyone) are not paid as well as in USA.

Untrue. The net pay versus cost of living is practically the same in an overwhelming majority.

I have had the opportunity to visit many countries and have learned that nurses in USA do a lot of procedures and make decisions that only MDs are allowed to do elsewhere. In other words, there are fewer people to ACT and advocate for the patient.

This has far less to do with the universal healthcare concept and more to do with the medical culture of a given country. There are many countries which do not have Universal Heathcare wherein the procedure/decision format is as you describe above.

Hushdawg · May 12, 2009

The fear is over the potential waiting lists that may come from universal health care.

You are implying that there are no waiting lists in our current corporate run healthcare system.

Nothing could be further from the truth.

At least in universal healthcare the waiting list is prioritized on the basis of urgent need and first-come first-served as opposed to who has the better health insurance or can pay the most money.

Hushdawg · May 12, 2009

Y'know, I don't, either, but I also clothe, feed and nurture some neighbor kids whose parents are a little, well, negligent, and now have SIX cats because another stray found our back door and food.

Just want to comment... that mentality is why you became a nurse, isn't it? :loveya:

:yeah:

We need more like you.

Hushdawg · May 12, 2009

Are you familiar with Kaiser? The docs there work on salary. It's not the end of the world....

I was going to say the same thing.

Also, salaried doctors would not do the tricks that I have seen dozens of times.. that is a doctor randomly walking through a hospital, poking his head in a patient's door and signing the chart to get a slice of the pie.

In working with a charity several years to help poverty-stricken people in the USA you would be amazed at the number of cases I turned up going over medical bills trying to negotiate the payoff for the hospital. We investigated the charges when we noted multiple doctors in a short period of time. One case I was able to prove that 3 of the 6 doctors had never actually administered care to the patient or had provided insight for a diagnosis and we got those charges dropped from the invoice.

Imagine how many cases around the country are going unchecked.

Universal healthcare with salaried doctors will eliminate this kind of problem and also the serious problem of unnecessary testing and other things that corporate doctors do to pad the bill and bring more income for the hospital and themselves.

Jolie, BSN · May 12, 2009

Y'know, I don't, either, but I also clothe, feed and nurture some neighbor kids whose parents are a little, well, negligent, and now have SIX cats because another stray found our back door and food.
It's not a matter of whether it's a "right." It isn't. However, I will never be able to understand how someone with a compassionate heart can see another person suffer or do without and not want to help, even if that person may have contributed to his own lousy status in life.
Each other. We're all we've got.

Sue,

There are plenty of us who do the same who oppose mandatory taxpayer-funded healthcare.

It is hardly a sign of lack of compassion that people oppose further government intrusion into their pocketbooks and lives.

phylotea · May 12, 2009

all the mony obama is talking about is gona come from nurses and probably doctors pay . nurses seems to be a little be" to expensive" for obama socialist era .