I'm not going to lie...

[StudentOfHealing]

Some people genuinely annoy me on here, I'm ALL for furthering education but dreading those of us who choose to start with our ADN is complete disrespect.

Had my mother been healthier (she has RA and her pain is becoming unbearable.... she's a massage therapist ... her hands are her money makers) I would have gone the BSN route.

There's nothing more that I want than to retire my poor old mom.

Going the BSN route would have meant

a) A further drive... lets just say our vehicles SUCK! My community college is even walking distance .. need be!!!

b) I would have had to pay 25K for the BSN... my ADN costs 5K.

c) Graduating later...I need to retire my mom... NOW ... she's 57 ... has HTN ... she's already had 2 hypertensive crises. Her RA puts her in awful pain

I appreciate higher education. I know I will bridge for my BSN and I plan to obtain my MSN by age 24.

I'm currently 20 and in my second semester.

side note: I hope that after I obtain my BSN THEN I will be qualified worthy of obtaining a job in the ICU. I will apply everywhere either way....

what do I have to lose? My friend graduated with her ADN and received a position as a NICU nurse... as a new grad!

I'm glad to say that everywhere I go the nurses truly enjoy us... and tell as graduates from our college make some good nurses.

For a community college we've done pretty well. Recently spent millions on a simulation lab... new lecture rooms... ect. I personally am learning a lot here and he best part is that if I graduate with a 3.0 I AUTOMATICALLY am accepted into UTMB upon applying because my college has a deal with them.

[NurseJKV]

nothing wrong with being the underdog and starting from the bottom to the top! Good luck pursuing your nursing career!

[ixchel]

Boston, if you'd like to know the truth, the thought never occurred to me to consider the level of education of the RNs I experience when I, myself, get nursing care. Lets consider this, though. I don't know what the programs are like anywhere else, only the ones local to me. I feel confident that our local ADNs do adequate adequate skills. Perhaps my BSN will give me a larger amount of theory not necessarily directly related to hands on nursing care, and maybe it will give me more leadership guidance (we actually have a whole semester of leadership) which will be great from a management perspective. I do believe, though, when it comes to hands-on care, we're both trained adequately and maybe even to the same level of expertise. I have no reason to doubt my RN at my own bedside, regardless of her degree. Isn't that, to a degree (pardon the pun), what matters most? That the patient receive adequate care?

To be honest, in my own perfect world, we would all be given thorough education regardless of the entry level for practice, and after graduation, there would be a whole world of residency programs to break us in and take us off our wobbly toddler legs so that when we are practicing with more autonomy, we do so with confidence. I think it's the support we receive AFTER graduation that ultimately depends on how good we are in practice. We can all read books, we can all spit out their information, we can all type up care plans, we can all read drug books, and so on. But can we practice nursing? I'd give a kidney to land a residency program after graduation so that I would be able to focus on NURSING, rather than classwork, while still having a person looking over my shoulder a little. But that's a topic for eleventy million OTHER threads. :)

[BostonFNP, APRN]

I agree the financial part of the equation is frustrating and it is intimately connected to the issue.

It drives me nuts that NPs accrue about half the debt as MD/DOs yet make a quarter of the money and pay 8 times the interest. That interest is related to the high default rate which is related to the "for-profit" schools and the cycle goes round and round.

RN (especially BSN) education isn't cheap; neither is hiring a nurse. Nurses need to maintain their value. If nurses don't stay up with the education curve, employers will be looking to hire MA and other techs to do nursing jobs

[BostonFNP, APRN]

Ixchel, I would never question the degree of an individual nurse at the/my bedside, unless their actions made me question them. I am talking about nursing as a whole, in aggregate.

Your nurses in the area that you look up to as great nurses: do they have considerable experience? Experience is the other half of the nursing battle! On a whole, its my opinion, that out of the gate (in aggregate) bachelor's prepared (be that a non-nursing bachelor's or a traditional BSN) is in a better position to practice to the extend of their scope.

[soxgirl2008]

Ixchel, I would never question the degree of an individual nurse at the/my bedside, unless their actions made me question them. I am talking about nursing as a whole, in aggregate.

Your nurses in the area that you look up to as great nurses: do they have considerable experience? Experience is the other half of the nursing battle! On a whole, its my opinion, that out of the gate (in aggregate) bachelor's prepared (be that a non-nursing bachelor's or a traditional BSN) is in a better position to practice to the extend of their scope.

I'm curious what makes you say that new grad BSNs are generally in a better position to practice? I've heard of studies that say starting out ADNs do better in the 1st year out of school, but after a year their BSN counterparts are at the same level. I can't speak for all nursing programs, but my ADN program does have more clinical experience than the local BSN program. The BSN program concentrates more on research, theory and leadership. Which I think down the road helps you, but right off the bat starting out as a new grad most BSNs are not worried about perfecting their leadership skills. BSNs are more prepared for public health, but most new grads don't start out in public health. ADN nurses are prepared in school for bedside nursing. Yes, BSNs are as well, but ADN programs put more emphasis on it than BSN programs which are also teaching research, leadership, and public health. I don't see how right out of the gate a BSN is that much more prepared than an ADN for bedside nursing, considering bedside nursing is the main focus of ADN programs.

Managers at my hospital have even said that they often prefer ADN new grads because they come into work with more clinical experience under their belt. However, part of that could be that many of the ADN students have worked in healthcare all through school, while many of the BSN students don't have any healthcare experience. However, I work with a BSN nurse who said she felt much less prepared in her first year of nursing compared to her ADN counterparts because she only had one semester of med/surg, while her ADN co workers had 2-3 semesters. However, I understand BSN programs differ and some programs have better clinical experience than others.

[ixchel]

Ixchel, I would never question the degree of an individual nurse at the/my bedside, unless their actions made me question them. I am talking about nursing as a whole, in aggregate.

Your nurses in the area that you look up to as great nurses: do they have considerable experience? Experience is the other half of the nursing battle! On a whole, its my opinion, that out of the gate (in aggregate) bachelor's prepared (be that a non-nursing bachelor's or a traditional BSN) is in a better position to practice to the extend of their scope.

I can't fairly answer that, or argue with any of what you've said, either. I'm afraid I'm way too new to the world of nursing to have a good opinion worth backing up. I think I'm nervous about accelerated programs, whether ADN or BSN. I'm struggling with the idea that in just under 3 more semesters, my school is going to say that I'm adequately prepared to give nursing care. I couldn't imagine having a BSN in 3 total semesters. We have a second degree accelerated program at my school that is only 3 semesters. How can someone learn everything so fast? They do work harder and have more clinical time per semester, but have you ever tried to pour milk into a bowl too fast? It all spills out. I already feel like that's happening in my 4 semester program.

[Ackeem, BSN, MSN, RN, APRN]

I can't fairly answer that, or argue with any of what you've said, either. I'm afraid I'm way too new to the world of nursing to have a good opinion worth backing up. I think I'm nervous about accelerated programs, whether ADN or BSN. I'm struggling with the idea that in just under 3 more semesters, my school is going to say that I'm adequately prepared to give nursing care. I couldn't imagine having a BSN in 3 total semesters. We have a second degree accelerated program at my school that is only 3 semesters. How can someone learn everything so fast? They do work harder and have more clinical time per semester, but have you ever tried to pour milk into a bowl too fast? It all spills out. I already feel like that's happening in my 4 semester program.

couldn't agree more with this, the idea of a 15 months accelerated BSN program is just pure absurdity, how can one retain all that knowledge in such a short period and do these programs cover all the courses in a traditional 4 year program.?

[my crazy world]

Thank you for posting this and using your voice. I am sure it has inspired others like it inspired me to speak up. I am to working on my ADN for similar reasons to yours, and personal. I know that nursing school at all levels is a challenge and anyway you go about it we are on on the same journey to get to the same place. I choose to do my adn at a technical college so I can focus on one part at a time as I am working on it. I get caught up in the whole picture and loose sight of today. I am still in the pre nursing phase but proud of where I am and dont look back. We are all going to make amazing nurses and offer my support and prayers as we go through our journeys. Or in the way I am known for... We got this!

[BostonFNP, APRN]

I'm curious what makes you say that new grad BSNs are generally in a better position to practice? I've heard of studies that say starting out ADNs do better in the 1st year out of school, but after a year their BSN counterparts are at the same level.

Yes, BSNs are as well, but ADN programs put more emphasis on it than BSN programs which are also teaching research, leadership, and public health.

It sounds like you have excellent ADN programs in your area and have some word-of-mouth evidence of them being better than the local BSN program. If you can cite some of those studies I would love to read them over and increase my knowledge. As far as what makes me say Bachelors-prepared RNs are more prepared to practice to the full extent of their practice: they have invested in themselves in both knowledge and clinical skills.

Again for nursing, as a whole, research, leadership, and public health are very important to "nursing", as well as being important at the bedside. We are in a rapidly changing and advancing healthcare field. If nursing doesn't adapt its approach, it will fall behind other disciplines.

There is far more to nursing than clinical skills. With some experience, you may begin to see an embrace this. We need RNs to lead CNAs and educate patients and practitioners. We need RNs to research outcome and evidence-based practice. We need RNs in the community combating the growing metabolic syndrome epidemic in this country. We need RNs that have committed to a lifetime of continued learning to improve their practice and the practice of those around them. Nursing is much more than putting in a foley or placing an IV. Anyone can learn those skills and learn them quickly; real nursing is the nursing process before, during, and after those clinical skills.

[Anoetos, BSN, RN]

I can't speak for all nursing programs, but my ADN program does have more clinical experience than the local BSN program.

This is mythology, or rather, part of the larger mythology ADNs have constructed for themselves.

The clinical hours required to sit for the NCLEX are dictated by the SBON. They are the same for both ADNs and BSNs, and they can't be otherwise.

Another favorite piece of this mythology is the idea you also repeat that ADNs are better at "bedside nursing" than BSNs. Not only is this not true, it's not even quantifiable (but then neither is that other idea that ADNs start faster but BSNs catch up in a year).

It's all nonsense.

[Melodies of Legend]

I don't believe I actually said, and I did not mean it to come off such way. My point was geared towards the degrading of the ADN. I completely believe obtaining your BSN and MSN is good... I plan to do that ... why would I oppose it?

I got my CNA license last summer. It's just a semester long. I took it over the summer so it was only 7 week, but still had 210 clinical hours.

[Skips, MSN, RN]

I suppose I do sound a little defensive and that was not my intention. I do however grow weary of nurses asking me what degree I am getting and when I'm tell them I"m graduating with my ADN, the first reply is are you going to get your BSN soon? Or begin telling my why I need to continue on for my BSN. It is rather frustrating to constantly be defending your choices when you actually feel quite proud of your accomplishment and all you want to hear is way to go from your fellow nurse. In one of the posts in this thread someone even went as far to say it was easier to get an ADN because it is faster, which is absolutely false. But we all know the saying about everyone having opinions among other things LOL, so point taken. I need to remember to lighten up

I understand where you're coming from! I agree, it isn't necessarily faster doing the ADN route.