If the "job losses are permanent" what does this mean for nursing?

[BeatDownNewGrad]

This is what Geithner said a few months ago in relation to the recession and this supposed "recovery". The "recovery" is supposed to be a jobless recovery where the rich just get richer and poor (I suppose this means us new grads as well) just get poorer. That seems to be the pattern especially with those who entered the workforce circa the mid 70's or so.

This latest "recession" as it has been mentioned was not a result of some natural cycle of the economy. It's a restructuring of the economy, in other words; Layoffs to improve corporate profits. This restructuring is supposed to signal the end of the post WWII boon (which was really a result of all of our competitors being annhialated at the end of the war and this country being one of the few with it's manufacturing base still in tact) and a return to the 18th century style of robber barron/carpet bagger/tycoon capitalism. All of the gains made by labor behind what was really a mistake (the post WWII boon) is getting rolled back.

One thing is certain, the time I have spent temping after passing the NCLEX has been really eye opening. I had to work a bankers conference in South Boston at the new convention center. This conference was attended by just about every CEO/CFO of every major bank in the country. As it was explained to me byone of the attendees they were not there to rub elbows with each other but to get yelled at.

And the plot thickens.

I had a conversation with a nice fellow from Colorado. He wasn't a CEO or CFO but a guy who works closely with the banks in this country. Don't really want to throw his name out there or what he does but the conversation I had with him was interesting. My job was to register these people and this particualar fellow's info got lost. I recognized that he was a little agitated so I decided to put some of my "therapeutic communication techniques" that I acquired in nursing school to good use. In talking to this gentlemen I found out some useful things (not to mention common ground as he was a Bio Major and taught A&P at a CA college) and revealed to the man that I was an RN.

This starts off with an apology;

Guy from Colorado, "I'm sorry".

Me, "What are you talking about?"

Guy from Colorado, "None of these guys are going to say it to you so I will, I'm sorry. There's no reason why you should be working here at all."

Me, "Whoa, hold on!!!! I'm not asking for pity. I know I'll eventually land something it's just a matter of where and when."

Guy from Colorado, "You shouldn't hold your breath."

Me, "I don't see what you're getting at?"

Guy from Colorado, "Let me put it this way; Do you know why we are all REALLY here?"

Me, "Aren't you guys looking for venders to sell you ATM machines?"

Guy from Colorado, "No, not exactly but in a sense, yes."

Me, "So there's more to this"

Guy from Colorado, "Yes, there is a reason why you as a new nurse grad are stuck working here and the answer is right here at this conference. A few years ago there was 1.7 trillion dollars floating around in this economy and about a year ago it all dissapeared."

Me, "Are you talking about that Madoff guy?"

Guy from Colorado, "No, not really. He was small potatos. He just ripped off other rich guys and that's the only reason why he went to jail. The people in this room didn't pull some accounting scheme or Wall Street trading trick. The people in this room literally STOLE 1.7 trillion dollars out of the economy.

Lemme put it to you this way, if this happened in China, many of the people in this room would be hanging from a rope instead of attending a conference."

Me, "So what's this all about".

Guy from Colorado, "These people here are in deep trouble. None of them are going to jail or anything like that. They are here to receive a slap on the wrist from a few people for displaying some arrogance in the face of economic crisis. Just about everyone here received a record bonus last year in the wake of millions losing their homes and thier jobs, which was also their fault. This conference is just to make it look like something is being done about it.

Nothing is really gonna change though."

Me, "That's sick. How does this impact my job prospects?"

Guy from Colorado, "Just don't hold your breath. We haven't even gotten to the tip of the ice berg as to how badly the fallout from this is going to go. I'd be really ****** at these people if I were you though. Also be happy you're working right now. I wouldn't hang my hat on finding a nursing job though."

That's pretty much what I found out from that guy. His wife BTW, was also a nurse.

After reading of the labor struggles from the 1930's on back I have to wonder when folks decide they've had enough and start showing some solidarity. I may not have an RN job right now but have plenty experience working in hospitals. I know how nurses are often at eachothers throats all day playing these little games just to get the ones they don't like. It's shame how nurses tend to eat their own.

Not to mention how reality is finally sinking that this is not a recession proof field. Nurses are just as vulnerable to unemployment as the autoworkers, truck drivers and any other sector of the economy. With many retired nurses coming back to the field because of the economy they are also just as prone to getting low balled no matter how "in demand" their jobs are.

At the end of the day, after killing myself for my Nursing Degree, I have to wonder how far removed I am from the Joads in Steinbeck's, "The Grapes of Wrath"? Especially the scene where they find out from a worker traveling back to Oaklahoma that they don't need grape pickers in California.

[itsmejuli]

Because of lack of regulation there have been all kinds of explosions in the American economy. The implosion of the dotcoms in the late 90's, the end of the Y2K ramp up, the real estate fiasco and the failing of multiple banks. It all stems around greed.

Back in the early 80's there was a similar type of recession where many jobs were lost. People had to move to where the jobs were and take whatever job was available.

I also remember being in high school back in the 70's when "they" declared there were too many school teachers. A number of years passed and there was a teacher shortage.

To find a job as a new nurse one needs to have done well in school, be willing to relocate if necessary and take less than a dream position.

I don't believe that the job situation for new nurses will last forever. The fact that the population is aging is not going to change.

[SummerGarden, BSN, MSN, RN]

i don't believe that the job situation for new nurses will last forever. the fact that the population is aging is not going to change.

it does not matter that the population is aging. people are not retiring no matter how old they are getting because they have nothing to retire on... plus, employers are making nurses work short on their shifts. employers are getting away with it right now and they will continue to get away with it later so i disagree that the situation will turn around for new nurses when the economy recovers. in fact, i agree with the op, that any recovery of our economy will be a jobless one if something does not change pretty quickly. too many new nurses are being cranked out of nursing school for the past five years or so and we out number the number of jobs available now and will probably out number the available jobs in a future at the rate nursing schools are going. however, i agree with you that if one is flexible and willing to work horrible conditions, then he/she may have a better chance of finding a job.

[MedSurgeMess]

My opinion is that if a national healthcare bill is passed, reimbursements will continue to be low......so hospitals still will not staff units with nurses at optimum levels. I see home health, home based care being the way of the future. Traditionally, these home visits reimburse for even less than hospital care. What does this mean? It means less money for nurses, so either less pay or less nurses hired with heavier caseload. Now, in reference to the nursing schools pumping out new grads left and right, I think that maybe some corporate heads may have planned this. If there is an abundance of help, than they can forego the previously high wages. They will pay decently, because of needing a degree, but I think the days of high wages and tight job security are past. Just ask all of the nurses around you now--I myself don't feel super secure, like if my employer decided they didn't like me tomorrow, I'd be gone! Now, again, this is only an opinion, not a cold hard fact....my crystal ball isn't it's clearest lately and hasn't been giving me the hard and true answers that you can bank on!

[PMFB-RN, RN]

Doesn't anyone remember 1995? We had the same thing. New grads could not find a job doing anything related to nursing. Many thousands of new nurses where bitterly disappointed and sought work in other fields. By 1997 the situation changed totally and anyone with a pulse and a license could get a job doing any field of nursing they wanted, and so it continued until 2009.

[want2banurse35]

I agree with the OP this recession was not a natural cycle so I believe this recession is very different than other recessions so the results will be different. I was reading that in ca nursing schools are currently graduating 55% more students than just a few years ago.

[elprup, BSN, RN]

Doesn't anyone remember 1995? We had the same thing. New grads could not find a job doing anything related to nursing. Many thousands of new nurses where bitterly disappointed and sought work in other fields. By 1997 the situation changed totally and anyone with a pulse and a license could get a job doing any field of nursing they wanted, and so it continued until 2009.

I graduated in May 2008 with BSN, good grades, passed NCLEX in 75 questions, great references....my peers and I have yet to find stable, full time, permanent, hospital RN positions. It's totally crazy here in CA - there has been and still is nothing available (LTC, SNF, Public Health, Clinics, you name it we've applied). And when something does come up ~ hundreds of applicants apply. I cannot wait for this to turn around.

[PMFB-RN, RN]

I graduated in May 2008 with BSN, good grades, passed NCLEX in 75 questions, great references....my peers and I have yet to find stable, full time, permanent, hospital RN positions. It's totally crazy here in CA - there has been and still is nothing available (LTC, SNF, Public Health, Clinics, you name it we've applied). And when something does come up ~ hundreds of applicants apply. I cannot wait for this to turn around.

*** Is relocating an option for you? I see new grad hospital jobs here in the mid west. I moved here from Ca to go to nursing school and for the plentiful (at that time) new grad jobs. I was offered a job everyplace I applied and took a position that offered an intensive care nurse residency . My hospital does not hire new grad BSNs (ADNs only) for the critical care residency but does for other units.

I see so many high paying travel jobs for Ca..........

[HeartsOpenWide, RN]

I am in California. I graduated in May. I got a job offer before graduation. As well as a few other of my classmates. Our hospitals are still hiring. One here or there every few months, but no on is hiring in droves. People need to be persistent and follow up on job offers. I am sorry but I do not buy those people that say they graduated a year ago and have applied to some 1000 positions and still have no job. There are just not that many new grad positions. If you are applying to any and every position out there, of course they are going to turn away a new grad.

[PMFB-RN, RN]

Here are some full time acute care hospital jobs that don't require experience. They are in North Dakota. Might be interesting and fun to spend a couple years in the midwest getting experience. Once you get a couple years under your belt you can write your own ticket.

https://www.healthcaresource.com/trinity/index.cfm?ijobrowstart=1&fuseaction=search%2EjobList&ijobcatid=106&ifacilityid=&ijobpostondaysold=&template=dsp%5Fjob%5Flist%2Ecfm&submitbutton=Search&cjobattr1=Full%20Time&&CFID=21516351&CFTOKEN=b0def20ee2f49200-0AB8B39E-15C5-ED91-F9DA5F6BAEC15E65&jsessionid=c83084b8f55b16c73162

Here is another site that should be helpful for job seekers. I have posted it on Allnurses lots of times but some may not have seen it. Scroll to the bottom and click on the state you want. Lists all the web sites for all the hospitals in each state.

http://theagapecenter.com/Hospitals/North-Dakota.htm

[baldee]

I'm hoping to start my ADN in Fall, but from where I stand, it looks like a high turnover industry. For examples, look how long and hard it is to climb the stairs to get RN alone. And then anything (almost) can knock you down from a multitude of different factors. The job is not easy, the stress is not easy, and the pressure alone of thousands of clones being produced makes it a pressure cooker. I always wondered why RN's had stone cold looks on their face (and I'm a dual degree Engineer from GA Tech!).

Yes the mexicans are coming. Yes, EVERY 70 years to the year, there is a boom bust depression complete with inflating oil costs, major war, world economy manufacturing (only real wealth there is, in manufacturing infrastructure) goes to China, and a change of hands from bad cop (republicans) to the 'good' guys (democrats). Big money rules, it always has since the start of time, and it always will. 1999...1929...1859...(then a couple of more London stock exchange cycles and then over 1000 years of dark ages - YIPEE, rape the (idioit) common man, and keep them in the dark!!).

But RN is all there fricken is!! Medical Dr's are getting RN degrees. You guys may be working several PT jobs and doing fairly well. One of our local hospital always has about 80 RN jobs posted of varying degrees (yes, that could be propaganda carrots for us idiot students too :-)

Of course if this is to discourage students... then HELL YES, WE'RE DOOMED, WE'LL NEVER MAKE IT, DOOMED... DOOMED I SAY!!

(edit - sometimes my honor and integrity makes me speak the truth to help others, even when it can bite me on the rear. Oh well... y.m.m.v. :-(

[want2banurse35]

I am in California. I graduated in May. I got a job offer before graduation. As well as a few other of my classmates. Our hospitals are still hiring. One here or there every few months, but no on is hiring in droves. People need to be persistent and follow up on job offers. I am sorry but I do not buy those people that say they graduated a year ago and have applied to some 1000 positions and still have no job. There are just not that many new grad positions. If you are applying to any and every position out there, of course they are going to turn away a new grad.

Okay you say you do not buy that people are not getting jobs but then in the next sentence you say there are not that many new grad positions:confused: California has too many nursing programs and not enough nursing positons.