I *do* recognize the need for nursing theory

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but I am a bit appalled by the theory and research classes requird for my NP program while we covered the entire cardiovascular system in 1.2 hours of Patho. Why is that ??????????????????

We have Nursing Theory, Research and Research and Theory.

How are other programs compared to this one ?

Are you saying it has to absolute one or the other?

No, I am not. There are certain aspects of any theory that can be proven, using a scientific method of testing and validating. Like wise there are aspects of any theory that cannot be validated by using a scientific method. Does this make that theory any less valid, then those that can be proven? No, unless you subscrbe only to scientific proof proof. And if you do, you are grossly limiting yourself and any theory. I do not. Some do. I, in a manner of speaking, feel sorry for those who rely solely on the scientific method of proof, they are limiting their horizans.

Grannynurse

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Specializes in ICU, ER, HH, NICU, now FNP.

I agree that limiting one's view of nursing strictly to science limits practice, but my argument is that as a BASIS for building practice - not whether or not it should used at all.

I think a FOUNDATION of science that takes theory into consideration is the way to go - professing that theory is the basis for practice when much of it can't be proven takes credibility away from the profession.

In any case - there are plenty of theories out there that just need to be set aside, and others that are extremely useful and need further testing. There is no one theory that forms the FOUNDATION for nursing - however, science CAN be at the foundation, and theory can still be a large part of practice. It is simply time to re-examine theory and at least make some kind of unified stand.

Dividing the profession into groups who adopt one theory or another does only that - divide. That's what I see theory - as it currently stands at this time - doing for the profession.

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So you are unwilling to subscribe to my belief that a mix of theory and science is necessary and both need to be examined, but I am supposed to subscribe to your belief that theory is the end all? Why is that?

There are those who subscribe to the scientific proof system, that they believe either validates or invalidates a theory. With such a belief system, they restrict their view of theory. They see no value in anything that cannot be proven scienificly. They fail to grasp that things have transpired over the years; that what can be proven scientificly today, could not be ten, twenty, fifty years ago. DNA could not be proven to exist prior to the late 80s. I remember, in college, a professor telling us about the existence of DNA but he could not prove it (this was in the 60s). Many today cannot believe we were actually taught this way but we were. What cannot be proven today may be proven tomorrow. Do we throw out a theory. If your answer is yes, that is like throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

Grannynurse

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Specializes in ICU, ER, HH, NICU, now FNP.

Im not advocating throwing them all out - Im advocating giving them less of a role!

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There are those who enjoy studying theory. Let them. But don't ram it down the throats of those who choose to practice in a different way. It is good to be aware that there is a base of theory out there, but is it really necessary to good practice to immerse oneself in theory? No. Is someone who doesn't deeply study theory ignorant? No. The statements 'If you were smarter, you would be deeply interested in theory' or 'you just don't understand theory well enough' help theorists to justify their belief that theory is the only basis for practice. When I was an educator theory was so completely different from what actually happened in the classroom. It was irrelevant to reality, therefore not useful to the students, therefore not useful to my practice. If it doesn't directly help the patient, why are we forced to spend so much time with it? Unfortunately, those who love to study theory really only have one option to get paid for it, and that is teaching college. That's why those of us who find it irrelevant to our practice have to study it in depth.

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Specializes in Ortho, Med surg and L&D.
There are those who enjoy studying theory. Let them. But don't ram it down the throats of those who choose to practice in a different way. It is good to be aware that there is a base of theory out there, but is it really necessary to good practice to immerse oneself in theory? No.

...That's why those of us who find it irrelevant to our practice have to study it in depth.

Hello Tencat,

Quite possibly the ONLY use for current nursing theory at this time is merely in knowing which one is the one you subscribe to closest and in knowing enough about the ones you do not subscribe to in order to avoid facilities or institutions that advocate or follow a theory which is dichotomous to the ones you subscribe to.

I agree, that one can practice without 'theory' but, that one may find themselves swimming upstream if they choose to practice in an institution or facility which does uphold a theory which supports practice in a manner that does not agree with your beliefs, (regardless of studying theory, we all have beliefs).

Knowing which theory you subscribe to and which theories your coworkers subscribe to just simplifies and identifies the school of thought they come from. Right? In Sociology there are many theories which even various social workers, sociologists and researchers may hold. Feminists theorists work alongside Marxists theorist who work alongside Sociologist who favor Weber theory and so on. Stating your preferred theory only tells which school of thought you were trained on or where you are 'coming' from and how you view nursing and gives a glimpse of your perspective. This ought to help us work alongside each other, respecting your 'school of thought' while maintaing my own integrity as well.

I have no clue why nursing even bothers to try to make one grand theory, as if it was a natural law?

Gen

p.s. I am all for good and sound theory but, as a new nursing student I have not yet found the theory which I could proudly claim as subscribing to or willing to defend, however, I do think that EBP is across the board a clinical practice and not a -theory- so I am unsure why it was discussed so much in this thread. Theories are broad and simple due to being so broad, clinical practice is not theory, just influenced by it, right?

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Specializes in Ortho, Med surg and L&D.
There are those who enjoy studying theory. Let them.

... When I was an educator theory was so completely different from what actually happened in the classroom. It was irrelevant to reality, therefore not useful to the students, therefore not useful to my practice. ...

Hi again tencat,

In my p.s. I mentioned how I was baffled that nursing tries to make theory into practice? That is contraindicated, theory is broad, practice is specific.

Again, Theory may influence practice yet should not necessarily dicatate it. (or am I missing something?)

It seems logical if your classroom and real life experiences were not related to or influenced by the theory your facility was advocating then, it was not an appropriate theory for that institution. It would be like having feminist Sociologist working and advocating some hard lined masculine theory -ridiculous and inappropriate.

It makes sense that working with pediatrics would have a different influencing theory than working with geriatrics versus Rehabilitation or psychiatric or emergency or acute adult. One theory will not equally exert appropriate influence in all areas.

Whereas Sister Callista Roy's adaptation model may be great for infants and Psychiatric patients it may not be appropriate elsewhere.

Again, I am new to this, as a master's entry student, yet, I have not found the nursing theory that I would profess to follow or be willing to defend, at all.

Gen/Jen

p.s. thanks for letting me participate in this thread, I am very interested in theory and so far, have been way let down by nursing theory

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Specializes in ICU, ER, HH, NICU, now FNP.

The ebp came into play as a possibility for a foundation of nursing. The discussion about ebp focused on theory vs ebp (or maybe something else we are not yet aware of) as a foundation.

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Specializes in Ortho, Med surg and L&D.
The ebp came into play as a possibility for a foundation of nursing. The discussion about ebp focused on theory vs ebp (or maybe something else we are not yet aware of) as a foundation.

Hello gauge14iv,

I see, yes, ebp is not a foundation of nursing theory, it is a foundation of nursing clinical practice. It is clearly a major shift in practice yet, does not seem like the basis for an entire theory, specifically because it is accepted across the spectrum of various theory subscribers. So, EBP could be accepted as a natural law of nursing. Rogerian and Watsonian and Roy subscribers alike agree that implementing ebp is good, right? Are there any followers of a particular theory that do not uphold ebp?

If there are not opposing viewpoints among the various theorists then ebp ought to be considered a natural law of nursing, albiet a major paradigm shift in thought and a major big deal, (across the board).

Gen

p.s. yet remember, a law of something does not make it a theory, the law of gravity is not a 'theory of gravity' it is a law, so making ebp a theory seems awkward at the least

p.p.s. theory influences practice in a specific manner, there are various theories one can follow or uphold, again I am baffled as to why nursing theorists are trying to make their theories into natural laws? Natural laws are applicable and supported by many theories yet, many theories are in themselves, dichotomous with others and sometimes just compatable with many but, slightly different, okay, let me give it a rest for a little bit, I get to 'enjoy' another theory class starting this January

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Specializes in ICU, ER, HH, NICU, now FNP.

EBP Is not theory - you are correct about that.

I take issue with being told that our foundations are theoretical, and that what we are basing the concept of nursing as a profession on, is debatably shaky ground.

I think we need a firmer foundation to start with - then we can add the odd shaped less stable bricks in as we go. For me - EBP represents one possibilty for a firmer foundation, especially given that nurses are expected to be as or more technically competent in this day and age as they are to be spiritually and socially competant. If you look at the evolution of nursing over the past 30 to 50 years, the technical knowledge that is now possessed by nurses is astounding. Then look at the evolution of nurse practitioners - and how much that role differs from the tradition of nursing and leans into the medical model.

Im not saying EBP is the ONLY possiblity - I personally am simply not aware of what there is besides EBP. I just know that for me - theory is not a strong foundation upon which to define nursing.

The times they are a changin

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Hi again tencat,

In my p.s. I mentioned how I was baffled that nursing tries to make theory into practice? That is contraindicated, theory is broad, practice is specific.

Again, Theory may influence practice yet should not necessarily dicatate it. (or am I missing something?)

It seems logical if your classroom and real life experiences were not related to or influenced by the theory your facility was advocating then, it was not an appropriate theory for that institution. It would be like having feminist Sociologist working and advocating some hard lined masculine theory -ridiculous and inappropriate.

It makes sense that working with pediatrics would have a different influencing theory than working with geriatrics versus Rehabilitation or psychiatric or emergency or acute adult. One theory will not equally exert appropriate influence in all areas.

Whereas Sister Callista Roy's adaptation model may be great for infants and Psychiatric patients it may not be appropriate elsewhere.

Again, I am new to this, as a master's entry student, yet, I have not found the nursing theory that I would profess to follow or be willing to defend, at all.

Gen/Jen

p.s. thanks for letting me participate in this thread, I am very interested in theory and so far, have been way let down by nursing theory

As you have stated, you are new to nursing. Roy's theory is applicable to many areas of nursing, not just psych and peds. Diabetics, sroke, cardiac, surgical patients, to name a few, all use adaptation to deal with their illness. And nursing staff also use Roy's theory, in their daily practice but some are unwilling to admit to this. And a nurse's use of Roy's theory, applied incorrectly, happens as well.

Grannynurse

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Hi Tulip,

Another field that it seems like nursing freely borrows theory from is quantum physics combined with cognitive neuroscience via the whole concept of higher consciousness and 'enlightenment' as exemplified by various religions, (such as Ba'hai and also possibly Buddhism). Yet, even the combination of quatum physics/neuroscience/cognitive theories can seem way out amongst each disciplines neophytes as it is. To mix them all together and apply them to nursing is clearly not applicable-its too varied.

Good theory should take the most complex issue and explain it concisely and simply not the other way around!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Oh, Gennaver...

You are so right. There aren't a lot of quantum physicists hanging around reading the nursing literature. But people who know a lot more about physics than I do just laugh when they read Rogers. I honestly had one person tell me that "well, she was writing in the 60's, and it sure sounds to me like she was doing some heavy drugs."

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