I would not encourage anyone to be a nurse!

[Larry]

If i had a child I would not encourage him or her to take up nursing.

I am a UK nurse born and bred and if I had the opportunity to get something better I would!

I am for what its worth a glorious team leader, in charge of a number of nurses, and there is no support from my clinical nurse manager. Is it any wonder that nurses are stressed and the sickness rate is out of control in the NHS.

They have recently put up our salary a little under Agenda for Change, but it does not compensate for the stress I am going through with this job.

It doesn't matter how much Tony Blair puts into the NHS - if nothing is done about senior management.

Improving Working Lives means nothing - if you show indifference about your staff.

No wonder you cannot get enough nurses in the UK - the way they treat nurses!

:rotfl:

[highland lass]

I completely disagree. Every nursing service is a specialty. Unless your job requires extra schooling or credentials, your worth as a an employee is the same. Would you work in an ICU that required you to take care of the same patient load as you assume on the med-surg unit? Of course not and that's the payoff for working in the ICU - less patients - not less stress or less decision making or even less money.

I think that maybe we have got our wires crossed here. In our area theatre nurses are getting paid more because they are a speciality. We think we should get the same grade as them because we too are a speciality. As I said before, we go out the wards to help and are able to take charge if we have to ( I personally hate it and don't feel at all happy with working in a busy med/surg receiving unit because of the dangerous low staffing levesl)

The one thing that I have compared to the ward nurses is that I get job satisfaction, they don't because of this poor staffing level. We can go to the ward to help but they cannot come into our unit and care for a ventilated patient on haemofiltration and all the other equipment that we use. This skill does not makes us any better, just different.

[madwife2002, BSN, RN]

I have to say that KSF will not allow for promotion, you can do all the courses required but you will still have to go for promotion like you did before. I think AFC will be good for highlighting areas where study is needed, but I do believe it will still give false hopes to the career minded amongst us. In band 5 the only people who will benefit are the 'D' grades bcause they can now progress up to te equivelent of an 'E' grade, but the 'E' grades will have nowhere to go unless they apply for jobs in band 6, which means they will have the title of Deputy ward manager, and how many jobs like that are around? Dead man's shoes comes to mind.

I believe that the 'E' grades will feel undervalued because they are grouped with the newly qualified and newly experienced nurses, when we all know how experienced 'E' grades can be.

In my trust there is talk that the 'f' and 'G grade nurse wil also be in band 6 which will mean why go for a 'G' grade because as we know as a 'G' grade you have 24 hour accountability, so you may as well stay at 'F' and have all the benefits, and not the same responsibility.

I do believe however that we will be able to fight with the help of the Union to have our speciaist skills acknowledged and that the unions will be back to 1988 when grading came in-overworked!

I find it hard to understand why we need banding, and wonder how many billions of pounds have been wasted implementing AFC, where it could have been spend on wages, recruitment and retention. Oh yes and god forbid improving quality of patient care.

I wait to be proved wrong

[highland lass]

I have to say that KSF will not allow for promotion, you can do all the courses required but you will still have to go for promotion like you did before. I think AFC will be good for highlighting areas where study is needed, but I do believe it will still give false hopes to the career minded amongst us. In band 5 the only people who will benefit are the 'D' grades bcause they can now progress up to te equivelent of an 'E' grade, but the 'E' grades will have nowhere to go unless they apply for jobs in band 6, which means they will have the title of Deputy ward manager, and how many jobs like that are around? Dead man's shoes comes to mind.

I believe that the 'E' grades will feel undervalued because they are grouped with the newly qualified and newly experienced nurses, when we all know how experienced 'E' grades can be.

In my trust there is talk that the 'f' and 'G grade nurse wil also be in band 6 which will mean why go for a 'G' grade because as we know as a 'G' grade you have 24 hour accountability, so you may as well stay at 'F' and have all the benefits, and not the same responsibility.

I do believe however that we will be able to fight with the help of the Union to have our speciaist skills acknowledged and that the unions will be back to 1988 when grading came in-overworked!

I find it hard to understand why we need banding, and wonder how many billions of pounds have been wasted implementing AFC, where it could have been spend on wages, recruitment and retention. Oh yes and god forbid improving quality of patient care.

I wait to be proved wrong

AFC benefits no-one except the NHS they spend millions to implement it telling us that we will benefit. Do they really expect us to believe it. It's only another way to save money on unsocial hours. My wages are nothing without unsocial hours because of our rota of two weeks days/two weeks nights of 12.5 hour shifts my wages are not bad because of the enhancement. I believe that the hospitals down south who were part of the initial pilot scheme calculated their salarys compared to whiteleys and they all lost out. (Well there's a surprise !!) I remember all the hassle when the grading in and it was hellish and caused so much agro. This isn't going to be any different.

Our hospital is so tightfisted that we even got the water chillers taken away as it was costing too much. We are in an ICU which can be very hot and dry due to the air conditioning, we have no drinkable water supply in the unit and no ice machine. We have to go to the wards for that. We have patients who are drinking and the water is cloudy and warm from the mixer tap. It is a new hospital of only 4 years and is PFI (public funded) we asked about paying for water ourselves and were promptly told that we could'nt because it was PFI and we would be using electricity!!!!!! BUT...the trust offices have them.!!!!!!!moan moan moan

[Larry]

Larry, where did you go?

Sounds like you have more of a problem with the politics and representation associated with nursing than the actual nursing. Or am I reading wrong. Several other nurses have posted that the job is great and that as long as you can handle the stress, it is very rewarding. Any follow-up since your last post?

I have just read all the posts - we all get stressed in this job! Currently I'm burnt out, literally. I've been in nursing over 26 years, and i've worked in several countries as a nurse, being France, Palestine, Israel and now UK.

The problem in the NHS is the next level up and the fact that the support is appalling from management. They never take our side, or rarely...... The patient is always right - even if the client is aggressive - the nurse is at fault.

I got a degree two years ago, and in my academic set - I've had a colleague who resigned when they put him under pressure (and he was innocent of any wrong-doing), another female nurse took three months off sick, and I ask my colleagues and they are completely stressed. Agency nurses are running the outfit, because long term staff sickness is up.

The NHS recently introduced 'Improving Lives' for staff members - but my own frustration is on a bullying manager.

Another colleague told me that she knew a nurse who they put the same pressure on and she dropped dead! That means that nurses here are really fed-up and depressed with the lack of support given to community nurses.

[Larry]

I have to say that KSF will not allow for promotion, you can do all the courses required but you will still have to go for promotion like you did before. I think AFC will be good for highlighting areas where study is needed, but I do believe it will still give false hopes to the career minded amongst us. In band 5 the only people who will benefit are the 'D' grades bcause they can now progress up to te equivelent of an 'E' grade, but the 'E' grades will have nowhere to go unless they apply for jobs in band 6, which means they will have the title of Deputy ward manager, and how many jobs like that are around? Dead man's shoes comes to mind.

I believe that the 'E' grades will feel undervalued because they are grouped with the newly qualified and newly experienced nurses, when we all know how experienced 'E' grades can be.

In my trust there is talk that the 'f' and 'G grade nurse wil also be in band 6 which will mean why go for a 'G' grade because as we know as a 'G' grade you have 24 hour accountability, so you may as well stay at 'F' and have all the benefits, and not the same responsibility.

I do believe however that we will be able to fight with the help of the Union to have our speciaist skills acknowledged and that the unions will be back to 1988 when grading came in-overworked!

I find it hard to understand why we need banding, and wonder how many billions of pounds have been wasted implementing AFC, where it could have been spend on wages, recruitment and retention. Oh yes and god forbid improving quality of patient care.

I wait to be proved wrong

Actually I am in Band 7 as a 'G' - however much they pay us if they don't do anything about 'Improving Working Lives' more nurses will leave. Improving support structures and listening to nurses.

Funnily enough I was earning more money in 2002 as a "d" grade agency nurse without the stress. Its ironic isn't it!

My nephew died a month ago - he was shot in the street in the Philippines. Other difficulties were shared in our family. These events have made me re-evaluate things. Its not the money why we are in nursing.

[mattsmom81]

Wow what a strange thing it sounds like UK nurses must deal with . I cannot follow all your talk of grades and bands but I read your frustration with it all.

My dear friend emigrated to the US because #1, she could not support herself in the UK on her nurses salary. Sad.

Professionals have a right to a living wage and I wish you all good luck.

[Heartman]

I've been an RN since 1981. All but six months in Critical Care areas.

Nursing has been good to me.

I have been able to buy a house, support a family and keep two new or fairly new cars in the driveway.

I leave my job at work. I very seldom bring my work problems home with me. I have remained at the bedside by choice. Management has not been something I want to do.

A few months ago I changed to a new unit. An SICU that does a lot of CABGs. This is new to me and I enjoy the challange.

I am paid well, there is plenty of staff. Phyicians that I deal with seem to be competant.

I get job satisfaction when I know that a pt. or family asks for me specifically because they like the way I do my job.

Most of the problems that I have run into over the years are the kind of problems that are found at any job no matter what you do.

The grumpy employee or boss.

The person who doesn't carry their weight.

The jerk.

The idiot.

I find I can usually work around these people and still do my job.

Maybe I've just been lucky. But I think that if you are miserable at your job you should leave. There are almost unlimited oportunities for nurses and you should be able to find something that you like. I know that it is not that easy and there are other factors that prevent one from changing but it may be worth it.

Just my 2 cents.

Walt

[nursebeazie]

Hello and THANK U WALT for the positive post! I am new to this field and considering the RN degree for second career students (i already have a masters in psych)...it was good to hear what you had to say, very encouraging

I've been an RN since 1981. All but six months in Critical Care areas.

Nursing has been good to me.

I have been able to buy a house, support a family and keep two new or fairly new cars in the driveway.

I leave my job at work. I very seldom bring my work problems home with me. I have remained at the bedside by choice. Management has not been something I want to do.

A few months ago I changed to a new unit. An SICU that does a lot of CABGs. This is new to me and I enjoy the challange.

I am paid well, there is plenty of staff. Phyicians that I deal with seem to be competant.

I get job satisfaction when I know that a pt. or family asks for me specifically because they like the way I do my job.

Most of the problems that I have run into over the years are the kind of problems that are found at any job no matter what you do.

The grumpy employee or boss.

The person who doesn't carry their weight.

The jerk.

The idiot.

I find I can usually work around these people and still do my job.

Maybe I've just been lucky. But I think that if you are miserable at your job you should leave. There are almost unlimited oportunities for nurses and you should be able to find something that you like. I know that it is not that easy and there are other factors that prevent one from changing but it may be worth it.

Just my 2 cents.

Walt

[live4today, RN]

I understand completely your rancor. I am a thirty+ year experienced R.N. in the U.S. and I have to literally fight for every pennie I make. Part of the Nursing salary inequities, are indeed caused by our Nursing representative organizations which have done very little in this area to boost the Nursing Profession. They have always, as far as I'm concerned, helped to divide us into catagories Diploma Nurse, ADN Nurse, BSN Nurse, etc. etc. of course the leaders of these organizations are mostly BSN and beyond. So they have a vested interest in promoting their agendas to have these many lettered nurses salaries be higher, and promoting the differences between our training experiences. I have always thought how Bogus an idealization this was and is. I took the same State Board Exams as any other nurse, had to pass with the exact same score as any other nurse, and do the same job as any other nurse. As a matter of fact, I do not believe that Grad Nurses taking boards today could not pass the board exams we took thirty years ago. Where staffing shortages are concerned, Hospital Administrators continue to bury their heads in the sand and deny there is any such thing as a nursing shortage :angryfire while putting out memo's (oral not written) that staff is not allowed to say, "We are very short staffed today." as a reason for not answering call lights in a timely fashion. I also feel I would not encourage my son to be a nurse. That is the REAL SHAME of our profession, that we cannot allow pride in what we have accomplished, to sway us into recommending to others, this noble profession. Another aspect of our professions demise seems to be the media's love affair with nurse bashing. If you are informed about Mr. Schwarzeneger's comments alone, you may see how we are being portrayed to the public by him as well as other public figures. I find this interesting in light of how corrupt most politicians are in this country. These are just a few of the factors known to me, it would take to long for me to post the other inequities here as I do not type well enough.

PERFECT DESCRIPTION OF HOSPITAL NURSING TODAY!!!

In every country it seems, the same sad song about hospital nursing rings out loud and clear....we are SCREAMING to be heard and CHANGES are desperately needed, yet no one that matters is listening or caring! When will change come? Who has the answers to what troubles healthcare today?

We are trained to implement change when change is necessary, yet we can't seem to write a positive care plan for this profession. If we can't fix our profession of nursing, who will? It is going to take EVERY nurses involvement to turn this profession around for the better. If one nurse be against us as a whole, a weak link is in the chain, and one weak link tends to leave an open wound in the profession for the predators to come in and eat us alive.

If we want nursing to change......we must be willing to fight for the change by pulling together no matter what our degree might be.

[Alicia18]

I hate nursing--everyone hates nursing--but the glory is addictive.

The Veridican

Maybe it's because I'm still new to nursing and idealistic, but I find this quote kind of sad (No offense, Veridican). To me, nursing isn't about the "glory"; it's about the patients and the chance to make their life better. I love my job in spite of the headaches and long hours; for me it is a service that needs doing -- I dunno, like a calling or something. It's special. There's no glory in nursing (how can wiping backsides and doing showers be glorious? ), but there is a chance to do a lot of good and to be the kind face, the listening ear, and the gentle hand when a person needs it the most.

Just my thoughts on the matter. Hope I didn't offend anyone, but I hated to see nursing reduced to being for the glory.

Alicia

[janetrnc]

It seems that some of you have not had the best experience with your nurse managers but as someone who is now a nurse manager and has been a staff nurse there are some things you, as staff nurses may not see or know your manager does do. I have had the experience of having to work a staff position as well as complete my management duties and it was NOT a pleasant experience. When my staff is busy or short handed, I pick up the slack, they eat lunch even if I don't, (our cafeteria staff will take their lunch orders and deliver them if we can't get away for lunch, just to make sure the nurses get something to eat!)

I may be in my office but I'm not lazing off, the schedule has to be done, budget has to get done, I answer to the CFO if we are over budget, equipment and supplies have to be maintained and ordered, physician and patient complaints have to be answered, there a multitude of mandatory meetings, evaluations and educational needs have to be addressed, etc and ad infinitum...

If your manager is not on the unit and you need her help... why not pick up the phone and call her and ask for help, she may just be caught in a project that you may not be aware of....

If you feel she doesn't care about what's going on, why not sit down and talk to her and let her know how you feel, she may not know how you percieve her...

The bottom line is that as nursing professionals we need to support each other no matter the position, its not me against you, it should be us against the world putting us down and demeaning us...

[BETSRN]

I've been an RN since 1981. All but six months in Critical Care areas.

Nursing has been good to me.

I have been able to buy a house, support a family and keep two new or fairly new cars in the driveway.

I leave my job at work. I very seldom bring my work problems home with me. I have remained at the bedside by choice. Management has not been something I want to do.

A few months ago I changed to a new unit. An SICU that does a lot of CABGs. This is new to me and I enjoy the challange.

I am paid well, there is plenty of staff. Phyicians that I deal with seem to be competant.

I get job satisfaction when I know that a pt. or family asks for me specifically because they like the way I do my job.

Most of the problems that I have run into over the years are the kind of problems that are found at any job no matter what you do.

The grumpy employee or boss.

The person who doesn't carry their weight.

The jerk.

The idiot.

I find I can usually work around these people and still do my job.

Maybe I've just been lucky. But I think that if you are miserable at your job you should leave. There are almost unlimited oportunities for nurses and you should be able to find something that you like. I know that it is not that easy and there are other factors that prevent one from changing but it may be worth it.

Just my 2 cents.

Walt

I agree with you! There are plenty of jobs for those who are not happy. It always amazes me that people sit around and complain but don't DO anything about the problem.