How To Tell If You're A Bully

[Ruby Vee]

Are you a bully?

I'm getting fed up with some of the threads on allnurses.com. there's a 2000+ post thread on "do nurses eat their young?" And, the majority of the posters seem to claim that they know it for a fact that nurses eat their young because they've been "eaten." Usually they go on to describe one incident with one nurse which they're using to characterize an entire profession and sometimes the whole gender. Sometimes the story smells of bullying, but often not. Yet no one admits to being a bully. There are multiple threads about how awful it is to work in a predominately female profession because women are all sly, manipulative, gossipy or backstabbers. or all of the above. "And, I can say that because I'm a woman myself!", the post will proclaim. "But I'm not that way." Clearly, some of us are liars! There cannot be that many bullies in nursing without there being some on allnurses.com. And how is it that "all women are catty, manipulative backstabbers -- except me, of course"?

There's a thread going around right now -- there have been many of them lately, but this particular one irritated me today -- about rushing to "report" a preceptor because the student in question didn't agree with his practice. A whole lot of people jumped on the "let's lynch him!" bandwagon and someone went on to say she had no empathy for the guy whatsoever. I agree that the practice discussed is egregious -- but no one suggested that perhaps the student involved ought to just have an honest discussion with the preceptor before going off to report him. If you were the one who had developed a habit someone else found disgusting, wouldn't you want them to discuss it with you and give you the opportunity to make changes before they "stabbed me in the back by going to the manager"? And by the way, has anyone ever heard of "mobbing"?

If you are rushing off to "report" someone and haven't taken the time or summoned the courage to discuss the situation with them or haven't tried to resolve it without involving management, you're probably a bully.

If you and your friends think Gertrude is a horrible nurse because she always washes her hands with soap rather than using Purell or brings her own lotion to work or has artificial nails or doesn't like white people, do you talk to Gertrude about it? And think about what she has to say? Or do you and your friends get together in the break room and titter about "Gertrude's going to be really upset because every one of her patients today is white" or back and forth on Facebook about Gertrude's nasty smelling lotion? congratulations, ladies -- you've just identified yourselves as bullies.

If Elmer snaps at you when he's stressed or cusses you out because you made a big mistake or "made you feel bad" because you didn't learn a skill fast enough, that's bullying, right?

But if you snap at Yorhonda because she's asked a "really dumb" question for the tenth time this morning and can't she see how busy you are or how hard you're trying -- that's justified, isn't it? You're just giving her what she deserves for being so clueless. and if you cuss Elmer out because he snapped at you and he has it coming, that's fair isn't it? After all, he snapped at you first and you're just giving him back what he dished out. In fact, nobody gets away with treating you badly because you'll give it to them back, worse than they gave you! you're just standing up for yourself, after all.

Hate to tell you this, but it's you who is the bully.

You get along great with all of the guys at work, and you much prefer working to guys to working with your own gender. Dick and Willy roll on the floor laughing when you do your imitation of Cassandra who you know never comes to work for any reason except to try to "catch a doctor." Cassandra actually thinks you like her, and she often comes to you with questions. After answering her questions, with or without a condescending manner, you go back to your friends and ridicule the woman.

All those women you work with who are nasty, gossipy, catty backstabbers? You're one of them.

Reading between the lines on post after post, it seems that many of the folks who are complaining the loudest about bullies or about catty, backstabbing women are guilty of the same behaviors that they claim to deplore. But it's different when they do it, isn't it? after all, they're not the bully.

Or, are they?

I'm going to don my flame retardant suit here and go out on a limb by saying that if you're not treating others with decency, honor and respect, you might be a bully. Now, about those young you've been eating . . . .

[GadgetRN71, ASN, RN]

Good post, Ruby. Bullying does exist among nurses, the trick is not to mistake differences in opinion for it or constructive criticism. I am among those that still think you need to confront these fools and lay down the law- after all, that's what usually takes care of a bully, because they're cowards.

At the end of the day, everyone deserves basic human respect and dignity whether you're a new grad or someone who has been in the field for 40 years.

[GooeyRN, ADN, BSN, CNA, LPN, RN]

At the end of the day, everyone deserves basic human respect and dignity whether you're a new grad or someone who has been in the field for 40 years.

exactly!

[VICEDRN, BSN, RN]

I am just about out of my new grad year and I have to say that I believe the new grads catch it the worst and I can't understand it because these folks were all new grads once too! What do they expect us less experienced RNs to do with ourselves once we mature as RNs? Stay in this job?

Comparing notes with friends I graduated with, I have found:

1. Charge nurses consistently assigning new grad RNs to the patient rooms farthest from the nurse's station because "they have the energy" to walk back and forth. (Or in the ER, assigning the newbies to areas with less acuity because they have to "earn" their way into trauma team." umm. so they will just leave for more experience at another unit?)

2. Assigning new grad RNs to the, um, least productive techs/CNAs on the unit because "they need to learn those skills anyway"

3. Assigning new grad RNs to patients so that they can "learn to deal with" blah blah blah but its not a learning experience, its just undesirable task.

4. Openly stating that new grad RNs "belong" on night shift or weekend shifts/holidays because that's what we deserve since we are inexperienced.

5. Managers openly stating that the unit is "overstaffed" with inexperienced RNs who "don't know what they are doing" anyway and if they "have to" hire another one, well, they are just gonna... jump off a cliff or something. (hello? i am standing right here working my butt off. take into your darned office please!)

and yes, I have seen how one nurse who has a bad day or is generally weaker or more vulnerable gets eaten alive and I wonder how that happened to them and how i can *avoid* it or if I can avoid it at all. people who do that just seem really un-smart and not very professional to me. why are you torturing them?

ugh. sorry. vent over.

to the student: this is what your future holds as an RN in your first year.

[imintrouble, BSN, RN]

Of course none of us here at allnurses are bullies when we post either.

Some of us are just "strong" posters, have "strong" opinions, or have pet peeves we need to correct.

We never attack in this forum when we don't like what someone else has posted.

It's always respectful and civilized.

[senna-2tabs]

Im afraid as a new grad to work in such places as icu or ed, the nurses have very strong personalities and are hostile to each other and pts at times. Not all are like this but quite a few, which is sad because I precepted in the ICU but now have decided to try transplant. :chair:

[Blueorchid, ASN, RN]

1. Charge nurses consistently assigning new grad RNs to the patient rooms farthest from the nurse's station because "they have the energy" to walk back and forth. (Or in the ER, assigning the newbies to areas with less acuity because they have to "earn" their way into trauma team." umm. so they will just leave for more experience at another unit?)

2. Assigning new grad RNs to the, um, least productive techs/CNAs on the unit because "they need to learn those skills anyway"

3. Assigning new grad RNs to patients so that they can "learn to deal with" blah blah blah but its not a learning experience, its just undesirable task.

Now hang on a second. I hate to divert from the original topic but as one of those new grad nurses I feel the need to make a point.

First of all, as someone blessed to have a job in an ICU right out of nursing school I want those higher acuity patients. (I really do! Oooh and I want to get good at taking care of them so badly) I also feel like I learn more when I'm challenged with a difficult patient on the vent with a bunch of drips and head pressures in the 20s than the nasal cannula with peripherals getting ready to be pushed to another floor. But I have a preceptor standing next to me the whole time to recover when I'm chasing my tail and a unit full of people committed to helping one another whether you're a brand new grad or a nurse for 40 years. I will be the first to tell you there are patients on my floor I'm not entirely ready to tackle on my own just yet. Doesn't mean I won't, just that I'm still learning and we're dealing with people's lives here.

I believe the saying goes in the ICU there's the right answer or "I don't know."

Plus, its harder to spot problems in the lower acuity patient that could potentially go south (and Ive seen it when they do) because they lack the monitors that the critical bed has. You have to have the assessment experience and where does that go back to? Taking the easier patients before you go to the harder ones. Which I still want...but...you get the idea. :)

Back to the topic at hand. Bullying comes from both ends! Yes...and when you respond to negativity with more negativity you generally find yourself going around in circles.

[VICEDRN, BSN, RN]

Now hang on a second. I hate to divert from the original topic but as one of those new grad nurses I feel the need to make a point.

First of all, as someone blessed to have a job in an ICU right out of nursing school I want those higher acuity patients. (I really do! Oooh and I want to get good at taking care of them so badly) I also feel like I learn more when I'm challenged with a difficult patient on the vent with a bunch of drips and head pressures in the 20s than the nasal cannula with peripherals getting ready to be pushed to another floor. But I have a preceptor standing next to me the whole time to recover when I'm chasing my tail and a unit full of people committed to helping one another whether you're a brand new grad or a nurse for 40 years.

Taking the easier patients before you go to the harder ones. Which I still want...but...you get the idea. :)

I am a new grad nurse and I actually don't get the point you are trying to make. You are still with a preceptor. Let's talk when you are done with preceptorship.

For me, its been almost a year of me spending time with the ER version of your nasal cannula patients rather than your vent patients, which was the point I was trying to make: its good to build up to increasing acuities but if you never get the chance to build on your skills after you leave preceptorship...you won't be happy.

Let me assure you that your manager is likely ensuring that you are getting a variety of patients on your preceptorship. When the manager turns her/his back, then what? Will you be happy with soon to be med/surg patients as your "team" for the shift for the next two years? I think not.

[nursel56]

Just want to say how much I appreciate the newer nurses who are able to step out of their own perspective and imagine what it might be like to be on the other end. There are so many threads about younger nurse's opinions of older nurses, it's almost as if the subject is brought up in any way, it must be about the new grads. Ruby's article presents the idea that many of those onerous behaviors are directed at us as well.

Phyllis, my heart goes out to you. I can't begin to tell you what to do about so many dysfunctional issues at your workplace, I just hope you have an employee assistance or some other type of relief and/or redress of your mistreatment. I will say an extra prayer for you tonight. :redpinkhe

[Blueorchid, ASN, RN]

I am a new grad nurse and I actually don't get the point you are trying to make. You are still with a preceptor. Let's talk when you are done with preceptorship.

For me, its been almost a year of me spending time with the ER version of your nasal cannula patients rather than your vent patients, which was the point I was trying to make: its good to build up to increasing acuities but if you never get the chance to build on your skills after you leave preceptorship...you won't be happy.

Let me assure you that your manager is likely ensuring that you are getting a variety of patients on your preceptorship. When the manager turns her/his back, then what? Will you be happy with soon to be med/surg patients as your "team" for the shift for the next two years? I think not.

I'll try not to clutter up this thread with anything resembling an argument, but the term new grad, at least where Im from, means that you've passed your boards and are done with your preceptorship- and have headed off to care for patients without anyone watching your back. So forgive me for saying, that while Im most certainly newer, we're pretty much in the same boat if you're "almost" out of your new grad phase as you previously posted. If this isn't the case then I apologize.

But I would suggest, particularly in the ER, if your patients are so easy and you want to be part of the trauma team, why not pitch in and see if you can do anything for said people sinking under a heavier load? The nurse for forty years can still end up chasing her own tail- in fact I caught an experienced ER nurse during my senior practicum who was getting off orientation in the ICU falling under the weight of a heavy OR case and a family from hell-and I jumped in to see if I could help. And unless you've been doing IVs and other "tech skills" as you put it for years on end, you can always practice. In fact being in the ER throughout nursing school and EMS prior to that, I'd say its crucial.

Yes I may get the easier patients (and yes I still want to be challenged and if the time comes I feel that I'm not maybe I will see things differently) but in a teamwork scenario we should all be helping one another. I know on my floor if I'm having an okay day maybe someone else isn't and they could use a hand. That builds cohesion so when I do get the more difficult patients I know I still have a support system behind me.

As a last thought Im sorry you sound so unhappy with your years as a new grad. Again, being from the ER setting I know there is a lot of stigma about hiring new grads into the ED. I hope it gets better for you and you find what you're looking for.

[goats'r'us, ASN, RN]

Great post and 100% true, but I think the best part about it is the names of the characters. Gertrude and Elmer, lol! I pictured the little old couple in that famous picture with the pitchforks, except they were in scrubs. :)

How can you make this comment and not mention YoRhonda??!

[VICEDRN, BSN, RN]

I'll try not to clutter up this thread with anything resembling an argument, but the term new grad, at least where Im from, means that you've passed your boards and are done with your preceptorship- and have headed off to care for patients without anyone watching your back. So forgive me for saying, that while Im most certainly newer, we're pretty much in the same boat if you're "almost" out of your new grad phase as you previously posted. If this isn't the case then I apologize.

But I would suggest, particularly in the ER, if your patients are so easy and you want to be part of the trauma team, why not pitch in and see if you can do anything for said people sinking under a heavier load? The nurse for forty years can still end up chasing her own tail- in fact I caught an experienced ER nurse during my senior practicum who was getting off orientation in the ICU falling under the weight of a heavy OR case and a family from hell-and I jumped in to see if I could help. And unless you've been doing IVs and other "tech skills" as you put it for years on end, you can always practice. In fact being in the ER throughout nursing school and EMS prior to that, I'd say its crucial.

Yes I may get the easier patients (and yes I still want to be challenged and if the time comes I feel that I'm not maybe I will see things differently) but in a teamwork scenario we should all be helping one another. I know on my floor if I'm having an okay day maybe someone else isn't and they could use a hand. That builds cohesion so when I do get the more difficult patients I know I still have a support system behind me.

As a last thought Im sorry you sound so unhappy with your years as a new grad. Again, being from the ER setting I know there is a lot of stigma about hiring new grads into the ED. I hope it gets better for you and you find what you're looking for.

You are quite right. You are a "new grad" in my area of the country until you have a year of experience and in some facilities, its really more like two years experience. Regardless, you have a preceptor and that, frankly, means you are basically still learning and they are still trying to expose you to everything.

Like yourself, I have a previous background in EMS. I have no problem with teamwork. I will happily help others swarm their patients and will and do start IVs and do lab draws. I can also certainly use the experience.

As I said, talk to me when you are off orientation and when for the last six months all you have seen are shifts full of stable GI bleeders and insulin and cardene drips and you wonder when someone is gonna see fit to let you build your skills passed that point.

I was in our trauma room yesterday. I did about 5 seconds of CPR when they brought the patient in (thinking I could possibly learn something just from being in the room) before the charge nurse asked me to go "second triage" which effectively means triaging the fast track/urgent care patients. It has been like this for a solid YEAR for me and the other new grads on the unit. We either get assigned levels 3s/4s, the random 2 (ie stable post ictal) or triage or float RN and its not that we aren't good or aren't competent.

I already started applying to other jobs so that I can stop getting looked at as a new grad. I will NEVER forget what being a new grad is like in an ER and I certainly won't be treating new grads that way when I have more experience.