How much does your hospital ceo make?

[vivicaq]

Just curious, how much do the hospital CEOs and administrators make? Please provide actual figures where possible. In today's health care world it appears to me that we the nurses and first line care provider are always being asked to give and give and give. It almost appears as though we have an endless reserve. I am more than willing to pull some extra weight when asked to, but I am yet to see hospital administrators give back even ten percent of their salaries yes am saying ten percent because am sure that wont break their bank.I have heard of insistences where they have not received a bonus but not an actual wage cut. secondly is there a website that publishes salaries and annual profit margins for these institutions?

[Caffeine_IV]

No, I have just been around long enough to know that witch hunts work both ways.

Ok but I didn't gather that it was a witch hunt..just nurses voicing some frustration.

[Bortaz, MSN, RN]

The belief that any money saved by cutting the salary of the CEO would then be delegated to nurses or other bottom-of-the-chain staff, or to improve staffing ratios, is a naive one.

[Asystole RN]

"To them they see me just walk around and tell people what to do." "They have no concept of what I do"

And therein lies the problem.

Apparently nothing you DO has a good impact on the people you supervise, since they have no clue what you do. SO WHY ARE YOU THERE?

If YOU cannot even describe your job in more positive terms, then apparently your "talent, education, experience and vision are only valuable in your own mind, and to the company you bamboozled.

Now why do you have to attack me personally Steely? Lets try to act like professionals.

[SaltyNurse]

didn't have enough time before work to follow and reply so here is some catch up. note: i am truncating some posts that i am quoting. i will also place commentary within quotes using red text.

your board of directors wanted him so baddly they were willing to give me a million dollars. your ceo obviously has rare talent and ability or otherwise your board of directors would remove him and replace him with someone more qualified.

this. rare talent. like flipping your eyelids inside out? joking aside- i'm asking in all sincerity what constitutes rare talent that defines a hospital ceo. clearly it isn't the business degree.

i think it obvious that your ceo was not found outside you local community college sipping a monster energy drink while riding his skateboard. i am sure his qualifications are posted in your facility or on their website.

speaking of business degrees (and continuing in the spirit of hyperbole)- weren't all the slacker/partiers in college business and marketing majors? yeah, the business credentials thing doesn't set me agog with wonder.

... but to make blanket judgments on minor decisions when not privy to the over all structural needs of the company is silly.

i agree- to an extent. yes, there is more going on that what is obviously apparent. however, i do reserve the right to have an opinion about decisions and purchases made without my input that affect my practice and result in an epic fail. and of course i realize that the ceo didn't personally choose (worthless gadget). i get that the ceo is not an island, but the hand that cranks all the greater and lesser cogs.

granted upper management make mistakes and so do ceos but to place blame on one guy, the guy who most likely has nothing to do with the budget or staffing is silly. why doesn't anyone get mad at their unit administrator or the chief financial officer or chief clinical officer?

you think we don't go up the chain of command with our lesser and middle managers? are you kidding? they are in the fortunate position to have someone higher above them to pass the buck to. "yeah, we sympathize with (problem), but we couldn't get approval in the budget for (inexpensive solution)." and believe you me, you do not want to get a reputation for being a rabble rouser by pushing the issue further- despite this notion of "shared governance." it is truly more nominal than actual- unless of course you get to be on the committee to design the patient welcome packets. holy responsibility, batman!

yes some hospitals are going under, that is exactly why you must invest in the very best talent you can buy. to be honest the vast majority of hospitals are still hanging in there...some even growing and turning a profit.

very best talent? like jamarcus russell? i don't know if the raiders can say they got their money's worth on that one. i suspect that overpaid, underperforming "talent" don't just exist in pro sports. and how are we to determine that our ceos are truly earning their keep. it would be a little easier if they had a stat sheet, like athletes, hmmm?

exactly.

less nurses = poor patient care

when patient care suffers lawsuits increase (which if you check nsos case studies and monitor malpractice law like i do) and are rarely settled for under $1m. as patient care suffers complications increase costing the facility more money. as patient care suffers turnover increases costing more money.

thank you! quoted for truth!

these are all things that hit the budget and must be accounted for. do you think that the admins do not know this? do you think nurses have some super secret ninja ability to see these things but the admins do not?

well, one does wonder why decisions that lead to unsafe conditions continue. particularly when numerous studies affirm that outcomes, cost-effectiveness, morale, turnover, and work environment conditions are related!

besides if we really cared that much about staffing ratios because of patient outcomes then why do we not all take a salary cut? maybe take the same pay a cna or housekeeper does? hell if we cost as much as a housekeeper the facility could afford to keep a nursing ratio of 1 to 1.

now the hyperbole is getting out of control. hell, if my salary was equivalent to cnas and housekeepers, i think i would much rather be a housekeeper (first choice) or cna (second choice). either way i'd have way less responsibility, possibly be treated more respectfully, and have an easier work load. as you well know, you cheeky rascal, the difference in salary is warranted by the education, skill, and level of responsibility difference. and let's not get silly about ratios.

curious why that has never been suggested?

it has been suggested, and practiced in obvious and not so obvious forms.

there are always cost vs risk analysis. it would be safer to eliminate all lpns and cnas from the floor. it would be safer to only staff rns at a 1 to 1 ratio in healthcare. this is all obviously unreasonable, the question is what is reasonable?

i agree. what is reasonable should be decided by nurses, dontcha think? and backed up by evidence.

talent costs money. there are those who are making absurd salaries, some who deserve it and some who do not. same in nursing. i do not believe that the majority of ceos are non deserving monsters the way everyone portrays them.

i'm not saying ceos are nondeserving monsters. however, i would legitimately like to know what (concretely) is this "talent" and why is it so valuable. it's not wrong to ask for justification.

sucks but those with less talent and less education get the hard end of the stick. don't like it then get your phd, mba, msn whatever and climb the ladder.

excuse me? because if i had a phd, or even an mba and some of this *talent* (something i obviously am deficient in) i would therefore get a slice o' the pie? yeah, keep your business, pie- i don't want nunofit. personally, my interest in higher education is along the lines of further developing my talent (yeah i have some, who knew?) as a clinician. my niche is healthcare science, not business. and that being the case, i'm about as valuable as a ford gremlin and dime a dozen as a honda civic.

p.s. yes nurses have it bad but not anywhere near as bad as cnas or housekeepers...or do they not matter since they are lower on the totem pole?

oh, please. don't make arguments that you don't even endorse yourself.

would you support publicizing your salary?

it is hardly secret knowledge. you call hr and ask what the pay scale is- of course it will vary by location. personally, i'm perfectly satisfied with my salary. i sure do earn every cent of it, though and can clearly elucidate my knowledge, skills, and value.

like i said before and what was ignored. if you really feel that patient safety is the issue and nurse to patient ratios are unsafe and that greed is the driving force behind this unchecked greed then why not support a salary cap for all staff.

huh? there is a salary cap for staff. look, i'm not frothing at the mouth and crying "greed." it is reasonable to question the justification for a grossly disparate salary. it is also reasonable to expect compensation commensurate with level of education, skill, and responsibility. it is also reasonable to expect a certain level of work place standards.

however, regardless of what is logical, societal values and market forces will still be at work and the result is that a celebrity figure (of questionable talent and value) rakes in quite the fortune and high school teachers (for example) are given the pink slip. unfortunately, nurses and high school teachers are a dime a dozen and an employer will sell to the lower bidders. is it ethical that the powers that be take advantage of these conditions in order to protect their profit? when it screws over patients and nurses, no! are there better cost-management measures? yes. in fact, overburdening the staff with an unmanagable caseload and piling on unreasonable expectations leads to dangerous and costly outcomes!

it is my belief that many nurses get taken advantage of to varying degrees and are forced to cope with a bad situation as best as they can because working isn't for funsies and your employer has you by the short hairs. it is simpler and cheaper for administration to put the squeeze on the nursing staff and then when a bad outcome results, sell the nurse and his/her license down the river.

$15hr for rns, lpns, mds, nps, admins, ceos, managers and the like? could you imagine the type of care we could give! 1 to 1 rn to patient ratio on med surg! 4 to 1 rn to patient ratio in icu!

sounds great right?

again, being facetious doesn't sell your argument.

know any advanced practice nurses that are experienced and qualified to run a multimillion dollar company?

not knowing many apns, nor their business acumen, nor exactly what are the standard knowledge and skill competencies in ceo school- i'm not well qualified to answer this question. i do suspect that the ceo of my hospital, and i do know for a fact that the cno and all the middle nurse managers in my department are not qualified to do what i do. and possibly none of us are qualified to draw up floor plans to build a doghouse to code. what is your point?

thats the point, there would be no "higher ups" because they would work elsewhere. there would be no rns, there would be no rts, no mds, no nps, no managers....just you with a bunch of cnas and a few housekeepers. talent and experience cost money and unfortunately there are not many people in the world qualified to manage large organizations just as there are not many people qualified to be mds or nurses.

supply and demand my friend. tons of nurses, lower pay. fewer docs, more pay. very few ceos, tons of pay.

your argument takes for granted that "you get what you pay for" is always true, that spending a large amount of money delivers quality and talent. right, because higher business markups always reflect better quality.

really, there are not that many people in the world qualified to manage large organizations? are the seats for large organization management school really that limited? or is it that there isn't a need for a large number of people to manage large organizations?

well you should have volunteered your time and sat for the patient, since patient care is the #1 driving force behind this right?

so we have to be martyrs? we can't just be regular, respected professionals? how many of us actually do put in a lot of undocumented, uncompensated overtime? how many of us do bend over backward and leap over obstacles, compensating for all sorts of failures in the name of providing care we can be proud of? how many of us go more than 12 hours without even going to the bathroom? how many times do we cram food down our mouth on the run rather than eating a peaceful, leisurely meal?

nice things cost nice money.

and sometimes it is just perception that expensive things are nice.

the belief that any money saved by cutting the salary of the ceo would then be delegated to nurses or other bottom-of-the-chain staff, or to improve staffing ratios, is a naive one.

did someone say that? if so i must have missed it. that's not the point. the point is, what justifies such a grandiose salary when other talented, experienced, visionary people are making a relative pittance and under unsafe conditions that actually contribute to decreased cost-effectiveness? just cuz it's one dude compared to hundreds? and he was educated at hogwarts which has very limited capacity? those graduates are unique, one of a kind diamonds in the rough? we have to grease that palm heavily inorder to keep that hand cranking the cogs?

enlighten me. i am skeptical.

[vivicaq]

These same CEOs that you consider to be so smart, turned our health institutions into a laughing stock and this bothers me. Many of us seek healthcare where we work and if you are put in a position to constantly make up excuses for one think or another, what makes you think that this same technique will not be used on you?

For years a good number of Americans have had health care because the job market was great and am not talking the last five years, If you look at your place of work the administration mix has barely changed. If they are so smart like Asystole suggests why did they not have a rainy day fund? And guess what have you ever noticed that when they talk about profitability they use percentages and not actual numbers?

Enough of this we need to do what is right and set greed aside that is the American Way.

[vivicaq]

Them board members and management are one of the same, they allow for these fat salaries to be dished out and put our communities in distress. Every entity receiving tax payer dollars should fully disclose what their employees are making. Let my salary be the first on the list.

[casper1]

Many seem to think the CEO,s job is so much harder than the Nurses, we just wipe butts and push pill. As a nurse I am constantly putting out fires, calming irate patients, families and Doctors. Close to 100% of the time what they are angry about has nothing to do with anything I did, but I must still solve the problem anyway.

Patient are upset that the Doctor forgot to order a sleeping pill, the doctors upset that I am calling him to ask for a sleeping pill. Families are upset that the doctor is not available to talk to them and answers questions. Patients condition deteriotes quickly, I'm the one who watches over the patient and monitors their condition. Many times te deterioration could have been avoided if the correct treatment had been ordered.

Nurses have very little authority, yet we are required to be educated and vigilant. Often times I feel a big part of my job is being a scapegoat, smiling and diplomatic. Often times it takes that patience of a Saint to deal with families, patients and Doctors. Nurses do it over and over again everyday, they make it look easy. Maybe thats why we don't get the recognition we deserve.