How many unvaccinated coworkers are you aware of?

guest1152975 · Oct 3, 2021

3 hours ago, MunoRN said:

I don't know what that's supposed to imply, but it would seem to suggest that the vaccinated and unvaccinated are equally likely to spread Covid to others. That like seeing someone putting on their seat belt and saying "you know you can still die if you're wearing a seatbelt". Not necessarily inaccurate depending on how you interpret it, but also seems to imply it doesn't make a difference.

The Vaccinated Aren't ‘Just as Likely’ to Spread COVID - The Atlantic

My statement came from the horse himself Dr. Fauci. He states vaccinated are giving it to the unvaccinated. I don't care what THE ATLANTIC has to say. Fauci is "the authority" right? Even though he needs fact-checking himself. Why are the vaccinated still being required to wear masks? Hysteria perhaps? Wearing a seat belt and getting vaccinated are 2 different things. This is a free society and legal mandates must be reasonable. Young people rarely get seriously ill from Covid according to the Nationalreview. Plus some people have already caught Covid and have a natural resistance to it even better than the vaccine provides. People who go unvaccinated are putting themselves at risk. There are no side effects from wearing seat belts etc. etc. You can infer whatever you like.

subee, MSN, CRNA · Oct 4, 2021

8 hours ago, RJMDilts said:

What did my post say? Take the pill not the vaccine? NO. Let me quote myself: “Hopefully Merck's new anti-viral will get approval for use and will be another weapon that will get us one step closer.”

But since you don’t like me saying that, let me give you a source you will embrace: “White House Covid-19 Response Coordinator Jeff Zients said during a briefing on Friday that the best way to think of such a drug is as an additional tool, to be used alongside vaccines. This is a potential additional tool in our toolbox to protect people from the worst outcomes of Covid," Zients said. "I think it's really important to remember that vaccination, as we've talked about today, remains far and away our best tool against Covid-19.” (CNN.COM) (I even bolded the vaccine part to make you feel better and let you and the world know I agree eligible folks need the vaccine.)

So, we shouldn't try it because even though it may work now, it might not work against the next virus down the road? Are you serious?

“Since the introduction in 1937 of the first effective antimicrobials, namely, the sulfonamides, the development of specific mechanisms of resistance has plagued their therapeutic use. Sulfonamide resistance was originally reported in the late 1930s, and the same mechanisms operate some 70 years later. A compilation of the commonly used antibiotics, their modes of action, and resistance mechanisms is shown in Table Table1.1. Penicillin was discovered by Alexander Fleming in 1928, and in 1940, several years before the introduction of penicillin as a therapeutic, a bacterial penicillinase was identified by two members of the penicillin discovery team (1). Once the antibiotic was used widely, resistant strains capable of inactivating the drug became prevalent, and synthetic studies were undertaken to modify penicillin chemically to prevent cleavage by penicillinases (β-lactamases). Interestingly, the identification of a bacterial penicillinase before the use of the antibiotic can now be appreciated in the light of recent findings that a large number of antibiotic r genes are components of natural microbial populations (43). Which came first, the antibiotic or resistance?” (Davies & Davies, 2010.)

There are multiple classes and generations of anti-biotic because bugs mutate and adapt. Of course this anti-vital may not work for other viruses down the road, so what. The DATA to date shows it is effective in COVID patients and potentially halving the risk for death and hospitalization. (CNN.COM) So, I say push vaccines and use drugs that can save lives. It's not an either/or, its a both when necessary. Why do I say that? We know the data shows we can be infected after being vaccinate. What happens for the high risk patient who was vaccinated and contracts COVID? I say give them the antiviral early and prevent their hospitalization with PO meds at home. You say, its' better to vaccine only, and not have this pill option? What happens when the vaccinated high risk get COVID, do they then wait till they are sick enough to go to the hospital and need IV antivirals as is the current practice?

Expensive? Compared to what? What they are already being treated with, whether they caught COIVD with or w/o being vaccinated? "Remdesivir, is currently the only drug approved by the FDA for the treatment of Covid-19. Remdesivir, which is made by Gilead Sciences and sold under the name Veklury, is administered by intravenous infusion, so it's not as simple as swallowing a pill."(CNN.COM) That option is definitely not cheap. Even just getting it IV in the ED and discharged, which I have yet to see, would be very expensive.

The option Merck presents: "The federal government has placed advance orders for 1.7 million courses of treatment, at a price of about $700 per patient. That is about one-third the current cost of a monoclonal antibody treatment, which is typically given to patients via intravenous hookups. (NYTIMES.COM)

Merck has already sold 1.7 million treatment courses to the US government, if it gets authorization or approval from the FDA. The company said it will offer tiered pricing to provide access around the world, and will work with generic drug manufacturers to speed availability to low- and middle-income countries.

Sounds like this new anti-viral option would be cheaper than current treatments as it would eliminate hospitalizations and use of IV therapy. It would potentially be more readily available and perhaps obtained at urgent care or PCP offices thereby reducing visits to the ED. Also, Merck is actually trying to reduce the costs to those who cannot afford it so there is that as well.

Again, folks, get your vaccine and embrace treatment options that save lives and reduce hospitalizations and healthcare costs. AND, I'll be the first to retract my endorsement of Merck's pill if any data shows this pill is ineffective or unsafe, like I did after first endorsing, then retracting that endorsement, of putting Clorox in your arm.

References

Davies J, Davies D. Origins and evolution of antibiotic resistance. Microbiol Mol Biol Rev. 2010;74(3):417-433. doi:10.1128/MMBR.00016-10

CNN.COM Oct 2, 2021. https://www.cnn.com/2021/10/02/health/antiviral-pill-covid-19-explainer/index.html

NYTIMES.COM Oct,1, 2021. https://www.nytimes.com/2021/10/01/business/covid-antiviral-pill-merck.html

Bonus source on anti-biotic resistance history for any nerds.

https://youtu.be/U7Dshq5Npdg

sequence? question was rhetorical and I wasn't even talking to you. But I'm not smart enough to talk about virologist's concerns.

toomuchbaloney · Oct 4, 2021

55 minutes ago, Beardedguy said:

My statement came from the horse himself Dr. Fauci. He states vaccinated are giving it to the unvaccinated.

Provide the evidence of that statement.

subee, MSN, CRNA · Oct 4, 2021

56 minutes ago, Beardedguy said:

My statement came from the horse himself Dr. Fauci. He states vaccinated are giving it to the unvaccinated. I don't care what THE ATLANTIC has to say. Fauci is "the authority" right? Even though he needs fact-checking himself. Why are the vaccinated still being required to wear masks? Hysteria perhaps? Wearing a seat belt and getting vaccinated are 2 different things. This is a free society and legal mandates must be reasonable. Young people rarely get seriously ill from Covid according to the Nationalreview. Plus some people have already caught Covid and have a natural resistance to it even better than the vaccine provides. People who go unvaccinated are putting themselves at risk. There are no side effects from wearing seat belts etc. etc. You can infer whatever you like.

You aren't rational. IF Fauci ever said that vaccinated people can spread the virus to the unvaccinated.....that statement alone wouldn't mean that the vaccine isn't doing it's job. If you would just read this thread before opining nonsense , you wouldn't be in an indefensible position. No vaccine is

100% everything to everybody. But it can restore us to something closer to normal. The fact that most people don't get acutely ill has nothing to do with the argument in a country with our large population. This is costing. us money we can't afford , to say nothing of the loss of nurses. Actually, why am I bothering? Yu probably aren't even a nurse.

guest1152975 · Oct 4, 2021

5 minutes ago, subee said:

You aren't rational. IF Fauci ever said that vaccinated people can spread the virus to the unvaccinated.....that statement alone wouldn't mean that the vaccine isn't doing it's job. If you would just read this thread before opining nonsense , you wouldn't be in an indefensible position. No vaccine is

100% everything to everybody. But it can restore us to something closer to normal. The fact that most people don't get acutely ill has nothing to do with the argument in a country with our large population. This is costing. us money we can't afford , to say nothing of the loss of nurses. Actually, why am I bothering? Yu probably aren't even a nurse.

Who's irrational?

19 minutes ago, toomuchbaloney said:

Provide the evidence of that statement.

Just did. Try and listen to it why don't ya

guest1152975 · Oct 4, 2021

8 minutes ago, subee said:

You aren't rational. IF Fauci ever said that vaccinated people can spread the virus to the unvaccinated.....that statement alone wouldn't mean that the vaccine isn't doing it's job. If you would just read this thread before opining nonsense , you wouldn't be in an indefensible position. No vaccine is

100% everything to everybody. But it can restore us to something closer to normal. The fact that most people don't get acutely ill has nothing to do with the argument in a country with our large population. This is costing. us money we can't afford , to say nothing of the loss of nurses. Actually, why am I bothering? Yu probably aren't even a nurse.

What does being a nurse or not have to do with it? I might be a doctor. Ignorant

subee, MSN, CRNA · Oct 4, 2021

6 minutes ago, Beardedguy said:

What does being a nurse or not have to do with it? I might be a doctor. Ignorant

Obviously not. What you are saying defies logic.

guest1152975 · Oct 4, 2021

Just now, subee said:

Obviously not. What you are saying defies logic.

Yea nurses are the only ones logical, and eligible to speak in what's happening. Why don't you take a second and view my post.

13 minutes ago, Beardedguy said:

Who's irrational?

Just did. Try and listen to it why don't ya

Nurses are the only ones logical right!

subee, MSN, CRNA · Oct 4, 2021

1 minute ago, Beardedguy said:

Yea nurses are the only ones logical, and eligible to speak in what's happening. Why don't you take a second and view my post.

Nurses are the only ones logical right!

It's irrelevant for your argument. I'm not the one that insinuated that he didn't say it. We know that vaccines only decrease the chances of someone passing it on to others. No one expects that ANY therapeutic works 100%...at least people that are really nurses or doctors.. Also people who are really medical professionals have to have some tolerance for ambiguity because knowledge is constantly churning.

MunoRN, RN · Oct 4, 2021

1 hour ago, Beardedguy said:

My statement came from the horse himself Dr. Fauci. He states vaccinated are giving it to the unvaccinated. I don't care what THE ATLANTIC has to say. Fauci is "the authority" right? Even though he needs fact-checking himself. Why are the vaccinated still being required to wear masks? Hysteria perhaps? Wearing a seat belt and getting vaccinated are 2 different things. This is a free society and legal mandates must be reasonable. Young people rarely get seriously ill from Covid according to the Nationalreview. Plus some people have already caught Covid and have a natural resistance to it even better than the vaccine provides. People who go unvaccinated are putting themselves at risk. There are no side effects from wearing seat belts etc. etc. You can infer whatever you like.

Nobody is arguing that the vaccinated can't spread Covid to others, it was pointed out that your comment could use some clarification as it suggested both were just as likely to transmit Covid to others.

If a vaccinated person becomes infected (breakthrough infection) they have a similar viral load as to someone who is unvaccinated, but that elevated load is significantly shorter in duration and a vaccinated person is significantly less likely to become infected than an unvaccinated person, this is why vaccination reduces transmission.

Although the potential for transmission is lower, it doesn't completely go away, which is where masks come in.

And yes, I realize wearing a seat belt and getting vaccinated are two different things, it's a simile.

guest1152975 · Oct 4, 2021

1 minute ago, MunoRN said:

Nobody is arguing that the vaccinated can't spread Covid to others, it was pointed out that your comment could use some clarification as it suggested both were just as likely to transmit Covid to others.

If a vaccinated person becomes infected (breakthrough infection) they have a similar viral load as to someone who is unvaccinated, but that elevated load is significantly shorter in duration and a vaccinated person is significantly less likely to become infected than an unvaccinated person, this is why vaccination reduces transmission.

Although the potential for transmission is lower, it doesn't completely go away, which is where masks come in.

And yes, I realize wearing a seat belt and getting vaccinated are two different things, it's a simile.

Yes a couple of people argued and labled me irrational. Also asked that I reproduce my evidence.

My statement stands, thanks to lord Fauci.

5 minutes ago, MunoRN said:

Nobody is arguing that the vaccinated can't spread Covid to others, it was pointed out that your comment could use some clarification as it suggested both were just as likely to transmit Covid to others.

If a vaccinated person becomes infected (breakthrough infection) they have a similar viral load as to someone who is unvaccinated, but that elevated load is significantly shorter in duration and a vaccinated person is significantly less likely to become infected than an unvaccinated person, this is why vaccination reduces transmission.

Although the potential for transmission is lower, it doesn't completely go away, which is where masks come in.

And yes, I realize wearing a seat belt and getting vaccinated are two different things, it's a simile.

That means we'll be wearing masks to what end?

MunoRN, RN · Oct 4, 2021

2 minutes ago, Beardedguy said:

Yes a couple of people argued and labled me irrational. Also asked that I reproduce my evidence.

My statement stands, thanks to lord Fauci.

That means we'll be wearing masks to what end?

I'm still not clear what your position is, are you arguing that vaccination doesn't reduce transmission? "Lord" Fauci's statements don't support that.

Did you mean "to what end" or "where does it end"?