How to handle an abusive surgeon?

GadgetRN71, ASN, RN · Apr 18, 2008

This can be a diificult situation to deal with because of the "culture" of OR nursing that has stuck around for years. Many of the older nurses in my hospital tolerate the abuse. Obviously, this sort of behavior should not be tolerated by anyone.

Does your hospital have a policy about abusive behavior from doctors? You may have to document this-I've seen people do incident reports. Keep in mind that this won't be easy. You'll have people coming down on you for defending yourself, but you have to be strong and not back down. Either that or just refuse to go in this doctor's room anymore. He's doing this because people tolerated his nonsense for a long time.

You can say something directly to him, but it's important to be professional(no swearing, crying or yelling). If the surgery is a touchy one with an unstable patient, you may want to wait until after the surgery to confront him. I've found through my own experience that many of these "bully surgeons" back down once they see you don't tolerate their garbage.

Good luck.:) PS... and shame on your manager for not having your back..That's what a good manager does, he/she should look out for the staff and not cower when faced with a nasty surgeon. :nono:

Scrubby · Apr 18, 2008

[This can be a diificult situation to deal with because of the "culture" of OR nursing that has stuck around for years. Many of the older nurses in my hospital tolerate the abuse. Obviously, this sort of behavior should not be tolerated by anyone.]

I completely agree. We have the exact same problem, the older nurses just seem to take the abuse (it's just normal for them), they let newbies be demoralised in front of the entire OR team and it's quite sad really....

I can be fairly forgiving, if it's a surgeon who is being a bit snappy because he is under pressure then that's fine, we all have these moments. But if it's just outright abuse then NO it's not right.

I have found that a simple 'I don't appreciate being spoken to in this manner' or a 'your behaviour is out of line, do not speak to me like that' to work quite well. It usually shuts them up and they soon realise that i'm not a martyr and can stick up for myself. If you just put up with it then they know that they can get away with what they are doing.

If they start screaming at me and throw instruments around (thankfully this doesn't happen too often) then I get my scout to call the team leader and have the floor senior in there to sort them out. If my scout refuses out of fear of the surgeon then i would tell them that the team leader needs to come in or i have to unscrub. This may seem extreme (and even like abandonment) but for the sake of my mental and physical health (increased risk of sharps injuries which is backed by research). And also the poor patient deserves better than an out of control surgeon operating on them, and a scrub nurse who is so demoralised that they cannot focus on what they are doing.

I think the best way to look at these sorts of problems is to remember how much hard work you put into studying to become a nurse. Did you go through all those years of study just to be someone's punching bag? Nobody deserves to be yelled at in front of their coworkers, and certainly not when your scrubbed.

I really do hope that you stick up for yourself. I really believe that unless we do speak out nursing will not advance as a profession.

zuzi · Apr 19, 2008

First you need to talk with hime and tell him what is about. Clear. Make your speech before on the paper. Short sentences, objective, not put your fellings inside. Show him that you are now soft and supid but also not be incisive or arrogant, show him that you could not tolerate his behavior and that he need to be PROFESSIONAL. NO use indirect words, use DIRECT words, " don't yeall at me", " tell me if you have an iquire"... be concret clear. Is better that a 3rd person be there when you tell him! This is the first step... You verbally make him self aware! Hope that is work!

Come here to give give you a hug looooool. Think in a good way! :heartbeat

Surgerygirl · Apr 19, 2008

I have found that a simple 'I don't appreciate being spoken to in this manner' or a 'your behavior is out of line, do not speak to me like that' to work quite well. It usually shuts them up and they soon realize that I'm not a martyr and can stick up for myself. If you just put up with it then they know that they can get away with what they are doing.

*********** I agree...... If you do not stand up to the abuse then it will continue.... Write an incident report for each different occurrence. Let your director and/or house know about each incident. I did. I ended up speaking to the CEO and he took action. I took the abuse for 2 years before having enough backbone to stand up to him. It was liberating. I will NEVER let myself be abused by a surgeon again. :nono:

aquarius1 · Apr 20, 2008

Thank you for all the advice guys.....i'll try to stand up for myself and not let any surgeon abuse me again specially when I'm not getting all the support from people who should be supporting me. Thanks again.

openheartmary · Apr 20, 2008

The next time you are abused at work, you file an incident report. Each and every time this surgeon behaves threateningly or abusively, write him up. Your facility will have to address his behavior. Work place harrassment is against the law. :nono:

aquarius1 · Apr 23, 2008

Someone mentioned about my hospital's policy regarding abusive surgeon, I did check on it through the hospital intranet and surprisingly found none...is this unusual for any hospital not to have a policy on how to deal with abusive surgeons? Or is it just my hospital?

Thank you again.:loveya:

Scrubby · Apr 23, 2008

We don't have a policy on abusive surgeons. I really don't think it would really be fair to have one. Yes there are some abusive surgeons out there, but there are also abusive nurses and other allied health 'professionals' who can be just as nasty to work with. You really can't target one particular group.

However, your hospital would probably have a policy on workplace bullying which would cover abuse from coworkers including surgeons.

brookorrn · Apr 24, 2008

I do not work in OR yet, but I did clinicals in one the other and when the surgeon walked in the door, the first thing he said was "I didn't know they let short, black women scrub in for surgery" and then he kicked me out of his OR room because he is "not there to teach". When I graduate in May, I am supposed to be starting in OR to get trained in as that WAS the area I wanted to devote my career to, but after that, I am seriously reconsidering. I love working MS and I adore alzheimer and dementia patients, so I am thinking about going a different direction. I became a nurse because I am compassionate and I want to help people. I do NOT want to take part in "accommodating" hateful people get their kicks out of being mean to others and hurting them emotionally. If that is what surgery is about, count me out!

**canoehead, BSN, RN** · Apr 24, 2008

"I did clinicals in one the other and when the surgeon walked in the door, the first thing he said was "I didn't know they let short, black women scrub in for surgery" and then he kicked me out of his OR room because he is "not there to teach".

I am amazed he still has a job. That comment was tasteless, and illegal, and if peer pressure hadn't gotten to him surely the lawyers would.

GadgetRN71, ASN, RN · Apr 24, 2008

Someone mentioned about my hospital's policy regarding abusive surgeon, I did check on it through the hospital intranet and surprisingly found none...is this unusual for any hospital not to have a policy on how to deal with abusive surgeons? Or is it just my hospital?
Thank you again.:loveya:

The last hospital I worked at, we had a policy about "disruptive" surgeons. This pretty much meant abuse, ie verbal abuse, ridiculing, throwing things etc. You could report the doctor in question to the medical director and if the doc was a repeat offender, he/she would be sent to counseling(anger management etc). They classified this a "hostile work environment".

The hospital I'm in now has something similar and also has a union. I wouldn't let this surgeon get away with abusing you though. If this means you fill out an incident report every time, then so be it. Sooner or later, someone will take notice. I think they have policies like this because unfortunately, this kind of behavior can be common with doctors. You should hear the stories some of the older nurses tell. I'm talking nurses and techs being hit, slapped, called vulgar names and being sexually harrassed on a daily basis(groping etc).

Usually the phrase "hostile working environment" works wonders.