How to deal with the old/experienced nurses?!

[Anna-s]

Hello!

I m a new RN on A med-surge floor and most of my co-workers are old nurses that have been on that floor for years! They don't seem to like me and i have NO idea why! I am a quiet person. I mean i like to socialize but I am not that loud person ( because I still feel a stranger to the floor). Anyways some of them ignore me if I ask a question, others yell at me for the smallest mistakes ( one yelled at me cause I didn't change the NS bag that was good for another 3hours and even tho I put a new bag in the room, she wanted it change) i am nice to them! I try to talk and use humour but most of them just give me the look and roll their eye!

How should I treat them or deal with them?

[DoeRN]

I've always been different. I have never started a new job expecting everyone to like me and make friends. I'm there to work and go home not to make friends. When I was a new grad I was paired with a newer nurse. Though she was knowledgable I requested another nurse who had 20 years of experience to finish precepting me. Plus I was working nights and wanted to learn how it was on nights. I wanted someone with a lot of experience to precept me. I respected everyone there young and older. I didn't go out of my way to please them and brown nose so people would like me. I was there to learn and kept things professional. And guess what? Everyone ended up liking me. After they realized I wasn't going to kiss butt and get mixed up in all the gossip they said ok Doe is a no nonsense nurse and we accept her. A lot of them said I always jumped in and helped when they needed it and I was always fair and treated everyone with respect and dignity. When I left to start floating they threw not one but 2 parties for me and 4 years later I still talk to them.

So my advice to new grads. Go there to learn, ask questions, humble yourself, don't worry about making friends, you aren't there to make friends, respect everyone there, keep it professional, if you need help ask for it, if you see someone that needs help go ahead and help them. Once you feel comfortable with your job then you can start to make friends. But don't go in trying to make friends with everyone first. Learn your job and learn it well you have someone's life in your hands.

[LadyFree28, BSN, LPN, RN]

I've always been different. I have never started a new job expecting everyone to like me and make friends. I'm there to work and go home not to make friends. When I was a new grad I was paired with a newer nurse. Though she was knowledgable I requested another nurse who had 20 years of experience to finish precepting me. Plus I was working nights and wanted to learn how it was on nights. I wanted someone with a lot of experience to precept me. I respected everyone there young and older. I didn't go out of my way to please them and brown nose so people would like me. I was there to learn and kept things professional. And guess what? Everyone ended up liking me. After they realized I wasn't going to kiss butt and get mixed up in all the gossip they said ok Doe is a no nonsense nurse and we accept her. A lot of them said I always jumped in and helped when they needed it and I was always fair and treated everyone with respect and dignity. When I left to start floating they threw not one but 2 parties for me and 4 years later I still talk to them.

So my advice to new grads. Go there to learn, ask questions, humble yourself, don't worry about making friends, you aren't there to make friends, respect everyone there, keep it professional, if you need help ask for it, if you see someone that needs help go ahead and help them. Once you feel comfortable with your job then you can start to make friends. But don't go in trying to make friends with everyone first. Learn your job and learn it well you have someone's life in your hands.

I couldn't agree with you attitude more. I have always treated myself in the same way, and I have enjoyed my career.

BrandonLPN, I think that it depends on the facility, in regards that I have worked in a clinical ladder model faculty, making it more militaristic, for me, and it seemed for it to a lot of team work. You went through boot camp, but everyone was very supportive. I have worked in non clinical ladder models (for instance, my current facility is a small non-profit institution), when the staff DEMANDED a better structure. We developed committees, a preceptor structure. It helped with staff obtaining education, feelings of competence. Yes, there were feelings of "snacking" for some, however, with communication, those feelings resolved, which made a stronger unit. We had "working interviews" fir both new grads and experienced nurses, to see if they would be able to handle the extra responsibilities of being a part of the facility-we are VERY far removed from a hospital!

I am about to return to a clinical ladder model, at a local institution. I enjoyed the "structure" and team work that I was able to witness during my interview-I shadowed on the unit for two hours after my interview. It was a requirement if the facility for candidates to "feel out" the units, I guess to prevent or minimize the issues that the OP is venting about. But sometimes you can't even do that...just live, learn a lot, and THEN shape your nursing practice...with the priceless information. There really is NO room for error in this profession, and safety is our main issue...as long as a nursing unit is based on that, we as nurse MUST respect that...we are upholding with our licenses that we are going to practice SAFELY.

[joanna73, BSN, RN]

That is exactly how it used to be and yes I think we were better for it.I also think that in dealing with the "EVERYBODY WINS" generation they are not resilient and because everything isn't wonderful and when they are not being consistently praised....they are "picked" on...for never having "constructive criticism" they do not know how to "deal with not being praised for everything.Nursing is a tough profession. We aren't allowed mistakes. With all the added pressure place upon us and responsibility....we may not always have the time nor ability to be warm and fuzzy. Nursing isn't warm and fuzzy....it deals with the daily reality and brutality of humanity.....and there is NO room for error.

The "everybody wins" and "be all you can be...even if you're bad at it" generation is definitely out there, and it's sad, in general. Their parents and the media have planted various ideologies. However, not everyone is of this mindset, and not all new grads are 20 somethings. That makes a difference in how you perceive the workplace and the people in it. Personally, I would have been happier to be schooled in the old ways of nursing. Six days a week, one day off, and you lived next to the hospital. Instead, many of the current nursing programs gloss over the realities of nursing, so nobody wins.

[LadyFree28, BSN, LPN, RN]

The "everybody wins" and "be all you can be...even if you're bad at it" generation is definitely out there and it's sad, in general. Their parents and the media have planted various ideologies. However, not everyone is of this mindset, and not all new grads are 20 somethings. That makes a difference in how you perceive the workplace and the people in it. Personally, I would have been happier to be schooled in the old ways of nursing. Six days a week, one day off, and you lived next to the hospital. Instead, many of the current nursing programs gloss over the realities of nursing, so nobody wins.[/quote']

Speaking of generations, I went to a seminar about 7 or 8 years ago about how to promote teamwork amongst generations. I was in LPN school at the time. It was the best experience that all of us had. I thank my school for allowing us to go to a hospital's educational seminar, , and it really improved a lot of my peers relationships with each other. For instance, due to my age, I am a millennial. Millennials are supposed complementary to baby boomers-ask questions, investigate, and desire to be agents of change. I ask questions, investigate, and when there is a change needed, I am receptive in the change, as long as everyone is involved. Yes, we are kind of Kumbaya-ish about things, and if that is interpreted as an "everybody wins" mentality, so be it, but I would disagree...collaboration, in my opinion, fosters the best way of change...we are an evolving profession! I respect the history of nursing and desire to preserve it, while heading in a direction that provides sustainability in our profession-we represent having education and skills that are priceless, and I uphold the integrity of that.

For the OP...I hope she is still there, and everyone else, here are some links to some of the generational personalities we interact with. I hope it will give many clarity and help us with interaction with our peers as well as our patients:

Understanding Generations-WVU...great concise read on the overview of generations...similar to what the seminar I went to discussed:

http://www.wvu.edu/~exten/infores/pubs/fypubs/245.wlg.pdf

Article from Forbes Magazine about the update of a FIFTH generation:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/rawnshah/2011/04/20/working-with-five-generations-in-the-workplace/

You can also google types of generations as well, for more info as well. Hope this helps anyone!!!

[joanna73, BSN, RN]

I whole heartedly believe in collaboration, and that's the way I like to work. However, there is definitely a different mindset amongst the various generations, which can create conflict. I will check out your links. Thanks!

[catsladder]

Since they are "old" pick their brains for their experience. Keep wat helps and ignore what des not

[OCNRN63, RN]

I was pointing out that there is probably little they can teach me about leadership, but a ton about Nursing. It looks like Nursing Ed is wedded to checklists, and from what I can see, the *real* learning how to be an RN begins on the job. So I have no doubt the more experienced have a wealth of things I do not know and need to learn, be they younger or older than me. No problem at all with that. I expect to have people make sure I know what Im doing - and I would be worried if they didn't. What makes me wonder is how the apparently hostile attitudes foster the ability to ask and learn things by new nurses?

A nasty attitude toward "newbie" nurses is unhelpful, no matter you you look at it. When I got new soldiers in my squad, and later my platoon and my company, I made sure we started with (as I mentioned) "The Right Way" (how you learned it in school), The Wrong Way (how you learn from mistakes), The Army Way (how you learned it in boot camp and advanced training), and finally "How we do it here". Its the last one that makes you a member of your unit, be it a ward in a hospital or a cavalry scout squad. I worked hard at each level of responsibility to make sure the new guys got integrated so we could depend on them sooner, and accomplish our missions - and I demanded the same of my subordinates: if you don't know, *ask* - and as a leader, if asked, *answer* - even if its "Im busy, see me later and we will get you trained up - go get Corporal X, and watch him as he already knows how to do this". Then write it in my todo book and either follow up myself or delegate someone else to do so. This approach also helped me be a better team member and team leader in business.

And that is what worries me about a lot of these, frankly, "crabby", responses. It looks like the more seasoned RNs, whom I want look to for mentoring and teaching me the ropes and "how we do it here" (the *real* RN stuff), they seem more interested in maintaining a pecking order and dumping on new nurses, instead of integrating them by showing some real leadership and building a team. The patient should be the center of attention for the team. All nurses were newbies once, and all of us will eventually leave nursing. The difference is whether you let it eat you up or build you up. And I see a lot of the "eaten up" people on display here, as well as having run into a few in the hospital. Im curious as to how one gets that way - so I can avoid those mistakes that cause you to sour.

It is not just the young who get eaten. If you're an older nurse and can't sprint down that hall as fast as the 20-somethings, your value as part of the team is in jeopardy. Can't navigate the hospital's EMR as quickly as the nurses half your age? Be prepared to be mocked.

Bear in mind that for every horror story you read here, there are that many more new nurses who are accepted into new units without being hazed. If you've already decided that the experienced RNs you're going to be working with are only interested in maintaining a pecking order and dumping on new nurses, then I'd be willing to bet that they will pick up on that. The same goes for your statement about the experienced staff not having much to teach you about leadership. Maybe so. My philosophy is there's always something you can learn from others, particularly when you are in a new environment.

In any case, good luck in your future endeavors.

[Mijourney]

I thank the administrators and guides for stepping in to what is otherwise an interesting conversation. We should be mindful that our values differ and that this is also true in the work place which is why we cannot take our co-workers personally. It is also why that if we run into "clicks" on our job, we should maintain focus on the larger issue, as previous posters have pointed out, which is the provision of patient care.

[Ruby Vee, BSN]

I've got rude coworkers, some young, some old, some experienced, some inexperienced. I've seen quite a few people though that can't take the least bit of negative feedback without feeling that it's an attack. And I've seen more than one person who take a lack of falling all over oneself to be welcoming as being rude. And really, I see way too many people who are more worried about how they're being treated than how they are treating those around them.

There's two sides to every relationship. When someone complains about their relationship with their coworkers, we're only getting the one side. Some of us are going to give the benefit of the doubt to the one complaining. Some of us are going to give the benefit of the doubt to the one being complained about. Nobody knows for sure which side is "innocent," and there's a huge possibility that perhaps both sides are innocent, there's just a misunderstanding.

I do have to think, when someone is having a problem with more than one person, that the common denominator is the someone.

And considering nobody here can change the behavior of others, pontificating about the other coworkers does nothing. Only person's behavior that OP can change is her own.

Nicely put.

[Ruby Vee, BSN]

There is no way in **** that I can agree with this. I'm not an RN yet, but nonetheless there are certain truths that transcend professions. Why be kind to someone that goes out of their way to make you miserable? I hate when someone (who is not your boss, just a more experienced person at your job at that) has some ridiculous perceived authority over me. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for listening to what more experienced ppl have to say if they want to "Teach the new guy," but there is no way I'll allow them to disrespect me just because they think they can.

I don't believe in that "Paying your dues **** either." I go to work to do my job-whatever that job may be-PERIOD! Not to feed some coworkers ego by being their whipping boy. Most of them are bitter because they've been doing the same thing for x amt of years because A) they are not competent enough to be promoted or B) they don't have the drive to make the necessary sacrifices to educate themselves into a better position.

OP, if you try to "Kill them with kindness" then, no offense but I hope they run all over you. Again no offense is intended and I hope you fix this, but don't be WEAK, ok?

He said nothing about being unteachable. In fact, he specifically said that he is all for listening to what more experienced people have to say. However, he also raised a very good point about being wary of being unilaterally disrespected because of an inferior bargaining position.

Is it really the more experienced nurse's charge to vilify and/or jeopardize the livelihood of those who might be overly sensitive about being disrespected? I think it ought to be to show the new employee that they have no reason to be wary. And if that fails, consider another option. But to not even consider putting the new employee at ease - instead to jump straight to labeling them unteachable and going to the boss and threatening the new employee's paycheck speaks volumes about how you perceive your role in all of this. It appears to be an example the kind of abuse of power PRICHARILLAisMISSED was describing.

I'm not sure where you get your idea that your future coworkers will be bitter, not competent enough to be promoted or lack drive to educate themselves into "better positions", but I hope you overcome that disability before you're set free on the working world.

1. Soooo... I have an attitude problem (and some serious attitude issues at that) because I won't let myself be a colleagues punching bag? I would be in your debt if you could explain to me why this is so. Also I understand that it would behoove of a new nurse to learn from their more learned colleagues-I get that. But I simply cannot condone the more experienced nurses treating the new grads like crap just because they think they can.

Little story for ya. I used to Box as a teenager. Anyway we used to meet with our coach 4x a week at 6am. Before one of these meetings (it was during my first week) one of the others who the coach has been working with for over a year (you know, the "old boxer" lol. I say "Old" not because of his age but because he was there longer than I) told me to "Bring his gloves and head gear to the ring and set it by the heavy bag, and to get my *** moving." Keep in mind he was just a student like me-with no authority granted to him by the coach or anyone else. He assumed he was in charge of something because the other "Newbies" let him get away with it. But I'm not them. Anyway he then walked away assuming I would just take his orders before I could even speak. So I put his gloves and head gear in a toilet and peed on them. The coach arrived shortly after and the "Old boxer" asked where his gear was. I told him it was in the bathroom. He was ****** but didn't say anything and went to look for it. He was more ******* when he found it!

He told the coach what I did, but the coach (Good ol coach O'Miley!) heard me out before going off on me. I explained why I did what I did. Coach was shocked, but I could tell he was trying to hold back a laugh. He just said "OK" and had another student lead us in heavy bag and speed bag drills as he disappeared into his office for the next 20 min.

The "Old Boxer" and I had it out at the end of the training session. He was a better Boxer than me, but I was a better street fighter. He was a bit more humble after that day. We still keep in touch today.

The point is that the OPs thread reminds me of this. The "Old nurses" seem to be behaving like Ray (my old Boxing buddy) and you seem to think it is ok for them to do so. In your response to the Op you immediately put her at fault as if there was just no way that it couldn't be. I would imagine that you have a history of this, as on the very first page another poster alluded (Predicting the arrival of RubyVee in T minus 10...9...).

2. Unless I'm mistaken Ma'am "No," "All those more experienced nurses" will not "have any authority over me." They may have my superiors ear which I admit can be just as detrimental to my job, but not actual authority ("Authority" implies they can write me up or otherwise discipline me. Other than my preceptor I doubt this is the case, though I will concede that you would be more knowledgeable in this matter than I. If you still say so I will agree with you). Perhaps the "Older"...er... More seasoned" nurses like to use the word "Authority" to feel just a smidgen more important? Just sayin...

3. How does me not accepting and not being ok with my more experienced colleague looking down their noses at me equate to being unteachable? It's not like I expect them to "Beg my pardon" every time they address me. I'm just not ok with being treated like an "Untouchable." (As in the old Indian Caste system).

4. So you're saying that if the new grad nurses have a problem with the experienced nurses speaking to them as if they are below them, it should be expected (and is justified) that the experienced nurses will complain to the "Actual boss over and over again?" I take it this means that you would be perfectly willing to do your best to end a new grads career to save your pride...

The serious attitude problem stems from your assumptions that the more experienced nurses you'll be working with have a mission to make you miserable "just because they can." Granted, I haven't worked everywhere in the world, but I've seen very few (count on the fingers of one hand) experienced nurses with a mission to make anyone miserable. I have seen experienced nurses who are poor teachers, but that doesn't make them mean, nasty or on a mission to use anyone for a punching bag.

Whether you like it or not, when you start a position as a brand new nurse, the experienced nurses on the unit WILL have authority over you. Not all of of them, but not just your preceptor, either. ALL of the preceptors you encounter, the charge nurses, assistant managers and heads of various committees will have input into your orientation and will be asked for their evaluations of your progress and how you fit into the unit. This is not "ridiculous perceived authority" over you; it's all the seasoned nurses keeping an eye out for the newbie so he doesn't kill his patient. If an experienced nurse tells you you're doing something wrong -- especially in an ICU where small mistakes snowball into big ones very rapidly -- not listening can have serious consequences. First for your patient, and then for your continued tenure in your job.

There's also serious attitude problems in your assumptions that your future co-workers wish to feed their egos by using you as a whipping boy, that most of your future colleagues are "bitter because they've been doing the same thing for X amount of years", that "they are not competent enough to be promoted" or "they don't have the drive to make the necessary sacrifices to educate themselves into a bitter position." I'm not where all of these negative assumptions come from, but carrying them into the workplace is not going to endear you to your future colleagues.

It has been my considerable experience that most newbies who come into the workplace with so many and so serious negative assumptions about the people they expect to teach them and mentor them are very difficult to teach. They don't respect the preceptor or her experience, and it shows. The preceptor/orientee relationship then becomes an untenable situation. Often, other preceptors are brought into the mix to attempt to teach the newbie, but because the difficulty arises in the newbie's attitude, they are unsuccessful as well. Orientations become extended and the newbie usually quits or is fired. This doesn't happen because the experienced nurse sets out to vilify the newbie or jeopardize his income. It comes about because of the newbie's own attitude and issues.

Enter the workplace with this attitudes intact, and I have no doubt you'll be miserable. But it won't be your experienced colleagues' faults. It will be your own.

[LadyFree28, BSN, LPN, RN]

It has been my considerable experience that most newbies who come into the workplace with so many and so serious negative assumptions about the people they expect to teach them and mentor them are very difficult to teach. They don't respect the preceptor or her experience, and it shows. The preceptor/orientee relationship then becomes an untenable situation. Often, other preceptors are brought into the mix to attempt to teach the newbie, but because the difficulty arises in the newbie's attitude, they are unsuccessful as well. Orientations become extended and the newbie usually quits or is fired. This doesn't happen because the experienced nurse sets out to vilify the newbie or jeopardize his income. It comes about because of the newbie's own attitude and issues.

Enter the workplace with this attitudes intact, and I have no doubt you'll be miserable. But it won't be your experienced colleagues' faults. It will be your own.

Regardless posters how you feel about Ruby's viewpoint, her viewpoint comes from a VERY real place. I have seen "newbies" (for new grads to experienced nurses) REFUSE to respect important information and accuse people of being "hard" on them-since this post has turned down this road, I will share.

For example: I work at a medical daycare.It's kind if similar to having stable pediatric-step down clients, with the exception that they go home. Anyway, this co-worker was very defensive of our facility policy. We have children who are diabetics, and before administering insulin, you need a two person check with verification of BG results and orders to treat it. He walked away for me AND told me he did NOT want me to check with him because "I know what I'm doing" and the policy was "stupid". I told him " Do NOT asked me to sign off on your work EVER." Looks like screaming, right?? WRONG. No shouting, just emphasis, bring curt. The clinical coordinator had to intervene and MADE him have to do the process in front of her. The MAJOR incident that got him fired was when one of our children complained of a stomach ache while she was waiting to be transported hone. One of the nurses wanted to check her GT balloon to make sure that may have been a complication. While the nurse gather supplies to check, he put her on the transportation van and sent her home. About 13 hrs later, she went to the hospital and her GT balloon had 15ml in her balloon, as opposed to 5!!! And to add more outrage, at least for me, was when I had a diabetic kid tell me after I gave him his insulin, "the needle hurt, when Mr Nurse gave it to me, it didn't hurt because he never stuck me" *wide-eyed*!!! He was GROSSLY insubordinate, and DANGEROUS.

So not everyone is a bitter b*€#...nursing is a serious business. Ruby Vee is in Critical Care, where mistakes can be FATAL. A lot of nurses (including myself as a preceptor) are trying to save a lot if us from the trauma of killing a patient, and I thank them for that!!!

[PRICHARILLAisMISSED]

Well Ms Ruby when you're right, your right.

But I think there is a bit of miscommunication between us.

The serious attitude problem stems from your assumptions that the more experienced nurses you'll be working with have a mission to make you miserable "just because they can." Granted, I haven't worked everywhere in the world, but I've seen very few (count on the fingers of one hand) experienced nurses with a mission to make anyone miserable. I have seen experienced nurses who are poor teachers, but that doesn't make them mean, nasty or on a mission to use anyone for a punching bag.

Whether you like it or not, when you start a position as a brand new nurse, the experienced nurses on the unit WILL have authority over you. Not all of of them, but not just your preceptor, either. ALL of the preceptors you encounter, the charge nurses, assistant managers and heads of various committees will have input into your orientation and will be asked for their evaluations of your progress and how you fit into the unit. This is not "ridiculous perceived authority" over you; it's all the seasoned nurses keeping an eye out for the newbie so he doesn't kill his patient. If an experienced nurse tells you you're doing something wrong -- especially in an ICU where small mistakes snowball into big ones very rapidly -- not listening can have serious consequences. First for your patient, and then for your continued tenure in your job.

Ma'am the OP wasn't talking about the Charge nurse or any of the others you mention. She was talking about the other floor nurses. It is them that I'm saying have the "Perceived Authority." I mean I'm sorry but why should the OP just put up with them being snotty to her by virtue of time in hospital and nothing else? That's just not right. Doesn't the new grad nurse have enough to stress? I mean no disrespect to you established nurses, but according to a lot of you guys the environment is even more stressful and difficult than anything a student could imagine. Why should her/his peers (not charge or other mentioned, but peers, because regardless of their time in hospital if they hold the same title they are peers. More experienced peers, but peers at that). add to that? Shouldn't the new grad nurses be nurtured along by their more experienced peers and not treated as an inconvenience. Granted this happens in other professions, but from reading these posts on AN the overwhelming majority of nurses claim they became nurses "Not for the money but because they care, and want to be there for the unhealthy." You would think that this "Caring attitude" would also be directed at a peer who wants to do what they are doing. But in practice-going by these forums, and not to mention word of mouth by my RN buddies-it seems like you guys just look for opportunities to pick each other apart.

There's also serious attitude problems in your assumptions that your future co-workers wish to feed their egos by using you as a whipping boy, that most of your future colleagues are "bitter because they've been doing the same thing for X amount of years", that "they are not competent enough to be promoted" or "they don't have the drive to make the necessary sacrifices to educate themselves into a bitter position." I'm not where all of these negative assumptions come from, but carrying them into the workplace is not going to endear you to your future colleagues.

Ms Ruby, I made no assumptions like this in regards to my future co workers. I was referring to the co workers the OP described. It does seem, going by the available information, that the OPs co-workers look down on her and treat her as she shouldn't be there. I mean come on Ma'am, instead of answering a question the OP says they just ignore her completely or give her dirty looks. Maybe the Op is exaggerating, maybe she isn't. But I'm sure there is some truth to it. I also get that it may be the case that the OP is asking the same questions over and over and the more experienced peers are tired of it. But then again maybe that is not the case. The point is we don't know.

Maybe I was a little short in one of my responses to you. But nothing I've posted towards you compares to how you almost as if by instinct jumped down this girls throat. You just immediately, and I mean immediately assumed AND accused her of being at fault. I believe you were wrong for that.

It has been my considerable experience that most newbies who come into the workplace with so many and so serious negative assumptions about the people they expect to teach them and mentor them are very difficult to teach. They don't respect the preceptor or her experience, and it shows. The preceptor/orientee relationship then becomes an untenable situation. Often, other preceptors are brought into the mix to attempt to teach the newbie, but because the difficulty arises in the newbie's attitude, they are unsuccessful as well. Orientations become extended and the newbie usually quits or is fired. This doesn't happen because the experienced nurse sets out to vilify the newbie or jeopardize his income. It comes about because of the newbie's own attitude and issues. Enter the workplace with this attitudes intact, and I have no doubt you'll be miserable. But it won't be your experienced colleagues' faults. It will be your own.

Fair enough. I will be sure to not come into the profession with such negative attitudes. But to clarify I don't have them now. I was simply advocating for the OP after you let loose on her