How to deal with the old/experienced nurses?!

[Anna-s]

Hello!

I m a new RN on A med-surge floor and most of my co-workers are old nurses that have been on that floor for years! They don't seem to like me and i have NO idea why! I am a quiet person. I mean i like to socialize but I am not that loud person ( because I still feel a stranger to the floor). Anyways some of them ignore me if I ask a question, others yell at me for the smallest mistakes ( one yelled at me cause I didn't change the NS bag that was good for another 3hours and even tho I put a new bag in the room, she wanted it change) i am nice to them! I try to talk and use humour but most of them just give me the look and roll their eye!

How should I treat them or deal with them?

[metal_m0nk, BSN, RN]

What I said was that while some of those experiences may stand him in good stead, they don't make him/her any less a new grad. Perhaps after assessing the individual's expertise level the preceptor can move the orientee move up the ranks more quickly than the average new nurse, but that has to do the individual.

I agree.

Though....Is that what you meant by, "things could be...'interesting?'"

[PRICHARILLAisMISSED]

1. You have some serious attitude issues that I sincerely hope you can address before you come looking for a job at my institution. 2. When you are a brand new nurse, all of those experienced nurses around you have some authority over you (and some impact on your paycheck, believe it or not.) 3. If you aren't teachable -- because you already know everything, because you don't think we have any authority over you, because you're overly sensitive about being disrespected -- 4. your actual boss will hear about it -- over and over if necessary.

I'm not sure where you get your idea that your future coworkers will be bitter, not competent enough to be promoted or lack drive to educate themselves into "better positions", but I hope you overcome that disability before you're set free on the working world.

I'm not sure where you get your idea that your future coworkers will be bitter, not competent enough to be promoted or lack drive to educate themselves into "better positions", but I hope you overcome that disability before you're set free on the working world.

1. Soooo... I have an attitude problem (and some serious attitude issues at that) because I won't let myself be a colleagues punching bag? I would be in your debt if you could explain to me why this is so. Also I understand that it would behoove of a new nurse to learn from their more learned colleagues-I get that. But I simply cannot condone the more experienced nurses treating the new grads like crap just because they think they can.

Little story for ya. I used to Box as a teenager. Anyway we used to meet with our coach 4x a week at 6am. Before one of these meetings (it was during my first week) one of the others who the coach has been working with for over a year (you know, the "old boxer" lol. I say "Old" not because of his age but because he was there longer than I) told me to "Bring his gloves and head gear to the ring and set it by the heavy bag, and to get my @$$ moving." Keep in mind he was just a student like me-with no authority granted to him by the coach or anyone else. He assumed he was in charge of something because the other "Newbies" let him get away with it. But I'm not them. Anyway he then walked away assuming I would just take his orders before I could even speak. So I put his gloves and head gear in a toilet and peed on them. The coach arrived shortly after and the "Old boxer" asked where his gear was. I told him it was in the bathroom. He was P****D but didn't say anything and went to look for it. He was more P****D when he found it!

He told the coach what I did, but the coach (Good ol coach O'Miley!) heard me out before going off on me. I explained why I did what I did. Coach was shocked, but I could tell he was trying to hold back a laugh. He just said "OK" and had another student lead us in heavy bag and speed bag drills as he disappeared into his office for the next 20 min.

The "Old Boxer" and I had it out at the end of the training session. He was a better Boxer than me, but I was a better street fighter. He was a bit more humble after that day. We still keep in touch today.

The point is that the OPs thread reminds me of this. The "Old nurses" seem to be behaving like Ray (my old Boxing buddy) and you seem to think it is ok for them to do so. In your response to the Op you immediately put her at fault as if there was just no way that it couldn't be. I would imagine that you have a history of this, as on the very first page another poster alluded (Predicting the arrival of RubyVee in T minus 10...9...).

2. Unless I'm mistaken Ma'am "No," "All those more experienced nurses" will not "have any authority over me." They may have my superiors ear which I admit can be just as detrimental to my job, but not actual authority ("Authority" implies they can write me up or otherwise discipline me. Other than my preceptor I doubt this is the case, though I will concede that you would be more knowledgeable in this matter than I. If you still say so I will agree with you). Perhaps the "Older"...er... More seasoned" nurses like to use the word "Authority" to feel just a smidgen more important? Just sayin...

3. How does me not accepting and not being ok with my more experienced colleague looking down their noses at me equate to being unteachable? It's not like I expect them to "Beg my pardon" every time they address me. I'm just not ok with being treated like an "Untouchable." (As in the old Indian Caste system).

4. So you're saying that if the new grad nurses have a problem with the experienced nurses speaking to them as if they are below them, it should be expected (and is justified) that the experienced nurses will complain to the "Actual boss over and over again?" I take it this means that you would be perfectly willing to do your best to end a new grads career to save your pride...

[PRICHARILLAisMISSED]

And in the OP's case, it's entirely possible that she's already alienated a whole shift of experienced nurses by treating them with disrespect.

No question.

It is also entirely possible that it is as she says it is...

[anotherone, BSN, RN]

3. How does me not accepting and not being ok with my more experienced colleague looking down their noses at me equate to being unteachable? It's not like I expect them to "Beg my pardon" every time they address me. I'm just not ok with being treated like an "Untouchable." (As in the old Indian Caste system).

4. so you're saying that if the new grad nurses have a problem with the experienced nurses speaking to them as if they are below them, it should be expected (and is justified) that the experienced nurses will complain to the "Actual boss over and over again?" I take it this means that you would be perfectly willing to do your best to end a new grads career to save your pride...

What do you mean by looking down on you , so what if they do? are they not entitled to that opinion?

Ok, since you are an adult , you have probably dealt with these people in the work place. Different things work for different people. Sometimes managment is just like these people. If there are many of them and they decide not to like a new person sometimes they will LOOK FOR ANYTHING, charting errors, med errors ( colace given late), etc" run to the manager and get the new person reprimended, extended orientation etc. I have seen this at my job, while other people's more serious errors get ignored. Sometimes it is best to get on thier good side, even if it means swallowing your pride. sometimes i tell them off or ignore them , it depends on your personality, their personality, their influence on managment etc. I tend to keep my mouth SHUT, ears open, until I know who is who, and who ranks where in the work place. Even if they say mean or rude things. the squeeky wheel is the one that gets changed.

as an aside, I am often overwhelmed with all of the new nurses, their questions, and not having anyone I can count on to know anything or help me with a bad assignment. While I am dealing with my own issues, some prince/ss feels slighted because I didn't jump to do their work, since s/he is less capable of handleling a bad assignment, or I didn't smile enough, have time to answer their questions, etc.

[fasnv]

I'm not a nurse yet, but I deal with people who are a lot older than me. It's a little bit harder to work with experience people (20+ years experience). On the other hand, I'm more advanced in technology than them. That kills them. I watch them getting frustrated or even angry...Threatening to throw their printer or scanner makes me laugh.

One of them yelled at me frequently. One day, I yelled back because he made a mistake. And then I said, "How do you like it being yelled at?" He was . He was so grumpy or cranky during work hours. Eventually, we developed a better communication. I turned out alright.

Well, don't yell back...You may not like the consequences. Learning to ignore their yelling problems would help you to understand them. You're not doing this for them, but for yourself. They're exhausted and so on. Lack of happiness is one of factors that make people impatient due to the fact that they are overworked. Don't take their behavior personally. Observe them closely.

If you have a time communicating with them, try to start a conversation. Ask them how you should improve. Don't be defensive or aggressive. Let them know that you appreciate their criticism. If they refuse, they have a problem:arghh:. They are the ones that passing knowledge to you, not you.

I have a couple of RN friends.One of them hold a higher position. They told me how they were treated when they just started in their work and how some new employees work and some of them do frustrate her.

[PRICHARILLAisMISSED]

What do you mean by looking down on you , so what if they do? are they not entitled to that opinion?

Ok, since you are an adult , you have probably dealt with these people in the work place. Different things work for different people. Sometimes managment is just like these people. If there are many of them and they decide not to like a new person sometimes they will LOOK FOR ANYTHING, charting errors, med errors ( colace given late), etc" run to the manager and get the new person reprimended, extended orientation etc. I have seen this at my job, while other people's more serious errors get ignored. Sometimes it is best to get on thier good side, even if it means swallowing your pride. sometimes i tell them off or ignore them , it depends on your personality, their personality, their influence on managment etc. I tend to keep my mouth SHUT, ears open, until I know who is who, and who ranks where in the work place. Even if they say mean or rude things. the squeeky wheel is the one that gets changed.

as an aside, I am often overwhelmed with all of the new nurses, their questions, and not having anyone I can count on to know anything or help me with a bad assignment. While I am dealing with my own issues, some prince/ss feels slighted because I didn't jump to do their work, since s/he is less capable of handleling a bad assignment, or I didn't smile enough, have time to answer their questions, etc.

Hi anotherone

I was just responding to the other posters comment. She was was saying that I "Had an attitude problem"-no, make that "A serious attitude problem" in reference to my post saying that I can't condone "killing someone with kindness" as a way to combat them "looking down their nose at me."

[joanna73, BSN, RN]

Instead of all the stereotyping that seems to occur with this type of thread, we should agree that there is truth to both sides, to be fair. I have worked with some wonderful senior nurses, and some not so great. Either way, it doesn't really matter, since I learned long ago that there are different personality types in this world. Similarly, some new grads are very good....but let's be honest, many new grads are somewhat incompetent, simply because it takes time to develop your practise. If you as the newbie are open to learning, and also open to the fact that most senior nurses will help you learn (without hand holding), you should be fine. The old/ new nurse debate is tiring. We all have to work with each other and have some compassion at both ends of the spectrum.

[metal_m0nk, BSN, RN]

as an aside, I am often overwhelmed with all of the new nurses, their questions, and not having anyone I can count on to know anything or help me with a bad assignment. While I am dealing with my own issues, some prince/ss feels slighted because I didn't jump to do their work, since s/he is less capable of handleling a bad assignment, or I didn't smile enough, have time to answer their questions, etc.

I think what you're saying here is very relevant and speaks to a larger problem that often gets pinned on those who are not responsible.

An organization with any hope of longevity and integrity needs to prepare itself for orienting new employees gracefully.

The new grad probably isn't the problem the majority of the time, but instead serves as a deflection of responsibility for an experienced nurse not astute enough, ballsy enough or just plain not in a position to compromise their own job security enough to identify aloud, the real problem - that they are given the brunt of the responsibility for managing new recruits without also being given the skills, tools, assistance and support to do so properly - and by extension, a blueprint to point to and scrutinize when their fly by the seat of their pants methods fail. It isn't enough to give a preceptor a choice. You have to also give him/her the tools.

The preceptor is on the defensive because they know they can't hold management responsible, because management may not have qualified the preceptor's methods. And yet the perverse notion prevails that the outsider, the one walking into the situation cold with no influence on the history of the unit or organization's culture or responsibility for its shortcomings or lacking organizational structure should somehow still be held accountable for its failures....

It also makes me weary to hear this argument over and over again that if one person faces difficulties with three or four or five people, then it must be the one who needs to adjust.

Why does that same logic not apply when an experienced nurse says the majority of young nurses are impossible to train because of their bad attitudes? If you subscribe to that line of thinking, surely you must consider that if most new nurses are unteachable, perhaps it is the teaching methods that must be adjusted and not every new nurse who doesn't thrive under the influence of those methods. I think we all know it is because it's a little more complicated than that - from both sides - and that that kind of reductionist, blaming and shaming summation is no more than a cop out.

[fasnv]

Just be yourself and do not let them get to you! I work in a PACU and there is only 10 of us that work in there. I am a 32 y/o male and the rest of them are females over 49. They are all burnt out and CRAZY!!! They complain and argue everyday. I'll tell you what I do. I ruffle feathers...I tease and get them all worked up lol. Then I sit back and laugh! I am not going to be miserable just because they are all miserable. I take the negative and use it to my advantage. Works for me anyhow.

Not nice.

[ColoradoRocky]

The bottom line is you are still a new grad. You may have more emotional maturity than some other new nurses, but it doesn't mean experienced staff still don't have to make sure you know what you are doing. I have seen more than one person who thought military experience substituted what was being taught in orientation and beyond.

I was pointing out that there is probably little they can teach me about leadership, but a ton about Nursing. It looks like Nursing Ed is wedded to checklists, and from what I can see, the *real* learning how to be an RN begins on the job. So I have no doubt the more experienced have a wealth of things I do not know and need to learn, be they younger or older than me. No problem at all with that. I expect to have people make sure I know what Im doing - and I would be worried if they didn't. What makes me wonder is how the apparently hostile attitudes foster the ability to ask and learn things by new nurses?

A nasty attitude toward "newbie" nurses is unhelpful, no matter you you look at it. When I got new soldiers in my squad, and later my platoon and my company, I made sure we started with (as I mentioned) "The Right Way" (how you learned it in school), The Wrong Way (how you learn from mistakes), The Army Way (how you learned it in boot camp and advanced training), and finally "How we do it here". Its the last one that makes you a member of your unit, be it a ward in a hospital or a cavalry scout squad. I worked hard at each level of responsibility to make sure the new guys got integrated so we could depend on them sooner, and accomplish our missions - and I demanded the same of my subordinates: if you don't know, *ask* - and as a leader, if asked, *answer* - even if its "Im busy, see me later and we will get you trained up - go get Corporal X, and watch him as he already knows how to do this". Then write it in my todo book and either follow up myself or delegate someone else to do so. This approach also helped me be a better team member and team leader in business.

And that is what worries me about a lot of these, frankly, "crabby", responses. It looks like the more seasoned RNs, whom I want look to for mentoring and teaching me the ropes and "how we do it here" (the *real* RN stuff), they seem more interested in maintaining a pecking order and dumping on new nurses, instead of integrating them by showing some real leadership and building a team. The patient should be the center of attention for the team. All nurses were newbies once, and all of us will eventually leave nursing. The difference is whether you let it eat you up or build you up. And I see a lot of the "eaten up" people on display here, as well as having run into a few in the hospital. Im curious as to how one gets that way - so I can avoid those mistakes that cause you to sour.

[wooh, BSN, RN]

The patient should be the center of attention for the team. ... And I see a lot of the "eaten up" people on display here, as well as having run into a few in the hospital.

The patient should be the center of attention. But a lot of people think they are being "eaten" when it's simply that THEY are not the center of attention. "Nobody said good morning to me! They're all so mean!" The experienced nurses want to focus on the patients. NOT on the new nurses. I'll make sure you don't kill anyone. I'll answer your questions. I'm not going to coddle you. I might be thinking about my patients when you ask a question and not hear you. I might even correct you (aka "yell at you.") The fact is, it is not about YOU (the new nurse.) It's about the patient. I'll be professional. Most new people actually do like me because I will answer your questions and help you all that I can. But I'm not going to coddle you. And there are some that think a lack of coddling = eating. That's what your mommy is for. I don't have time as I'm taking care of patients.

[Esme12, ASN, BSN, RN]

Honestly, I think nursing could only benefit from having more of a "militaristic" structure. A system of ranks (beyond the obvious LPN/RN) that's based on experience and merit is a good idea. I'm sorry, but less experienced nurses *should* be subordinate to more experienced ones. At least to some degree.

That is exactly how it used to be and yes I think we were better for it.

I also think that in dealing with the "EVERYBODY WINS" generation they are not resilient and because everything isn't wonderful and when they are not being consistently praised....they are "picked" on...for never having "constructive criticism" they do not know how to "deal with not being praised for everything.

Nursing is a tough profession. We aren't allowed mistakes. With all the added pressure place upon us and responsibility....we may not always have the time nor ability to be warm and fuzzy. Nursing isn't warm and fuzzy....it deals with the daily reality and brutality of humanity.....and there is NO room for error.