How can I be assertive when it comes....

[Rivs]

time to deal with some of the women I work with. I am in my final weeks of my nursing program and will be starting my new position as a graduate nurse in late May. I am just looking for some pointers from you guys on dealing with the sarcasm and aggressiveness of some of the women that I may be working with. I have always been very polite and courteous to whom ever I work with, but since I began this nursing journey, I have come across some very RUDE and aggresssive women (many are very defensive). Not all women are like this of course, since I have also worked with some very nice women and have learned alot from them. I normally just ignore the sarcasm, but I am afraid if I continue to ignore it, I may get EATEN UP on the floor once I start my job....

Hey guys what do you think of starting a male nursing company...the slogan can be " Male nursing available.....top quality care without the DRAMA".

I apoligize in advance to the women out there that this may anger.

[Corvette Guy]

Don't feel you have to be assertive with the drama queens -- particularly not at first. Just do your job and focus on the facts. Don't add to the drama by allowing yourself to be drawn into it. In the long run, "quiet competence" is usually the best approach.

Some women ARE drama queens. That's just an unfortunate fact of life. Stay "above it" and you'll be fine. Once you become an "insider" you may be able to deal with it head on -- but don't try to do anything until you have achieved a certain status and are respected by the group.

Good luck,

llg -- a woman who is NOT a drama queen -- and who has survived within nursing for over 25 years.

I'd bet you'd be an excellent nurse to work along side. Your post was a very nice read.

It is ashame how some of the female post bashed the OP w/o carefully reading his post in its entirety. He meant no harm against his soon to be female RN peers, which at last count I think make up 93% of RNs in the U.S, whereas in the Army Nurse Corps the female nurse percentage is less at around 67%.

It makes no difference to me whether I work along side another male, or female nurse. I do agree w/OP that some, not all, female RNs can come across as being aggressive, rather than assertive. However, I tend to think it may be more of how the male gender interprets our female counterparts interaction in the workplace [i.e. nursing environment]. Some 20-30 years ago RNs treated MDs like they were on a pedestal. If a nurse [majority female even more so back then] were to stand up against an MD for the sake of patient care that nurse had better come out with six-shooters blazing. I really admire those female RNs back in the day! Thankfully, RNs are far more autonomous [and expected to be] these days. However, today's autonomous nurse need not be aggressive, rather walk on the other side of the fence where assertiveness thrives.

Furthermore, it is my understanding this Male Nursing Forum is for all nurses with a focus on male nursing issues. IMHO, I'd like to be able to talk freely [w/respect & courtesy to all] regards to male nursing issues in this forum. This section of allnurses.com is one of my favorite places to visit on the net. The mods here & on this site in general do a great job in keeping this site running smoothly & an outstanding resource for all health care professionals.

[Rivs]

I'd bet you'd be an excellent nurse to work along side. Your post was a very nice read.

It is ashame how some of the female post bashed the OP w/o carefully reading his post in its entirety. He meant no harm against his soon to be female RN peers, which at last count I think make up 93% of RNs in the U.S, whereas in the Army Nurse Corps the female nurse percentage is less at around 67%.

It makes no difference to me whether I work along side another male, or female nurse. I do agree w/OP that some, not all, female RNs can come across as being aggressive, rather than assertive. However, I tend to think it may be more of how the male gender interprets our female counterparts interaction in the workplace [i.e. nursing environment]. Some 20-30 years ago RNs treated MDs like they were on a pedestal. If a nurse [majority female even more so back then] were to stand up against an MD for the sake of patient care that nurse had better come out with six-shooters blazing. I really admire those female RNs back in the day! Thankfully, RNs are far more autonomous [and expected to be] these days. However, today's autonomous nurse need not be aggressive, rather walk on the other side of the fence where assertiveness thrives.

Furthermore, it is my understanding this Male Nursing Forum is for all nurses with a focus on male nursing issues. IMHO, I'd like to be able to talk freely [w/respect & courtesy to all] regards to male nursing issues in this forum. This section of allnurses.com is one of my favorite places to visit on the net. The mods here & on this site in general do a great job in keeping this site running smoothly & an outstanding resource for all health care professionals.

Very well said, and I thank you and others like llg and tweety for understanding exactly what I am saying and trying to get across.

[malenurse1]

Here is my 2 cents. Just continue to ignore the drama queens ... female OR male. You will run into both. Focus on doing your job and taking care of your patients. Take it from another new Nurse (RN for 2 months now, yea!), you have alot to learn on the job. Believe it or not, we did not learn everything about nursing in school. I have learned more on the job than I ever imagined possible. No matter what you do in life, be it nursing or lumberjack, you are going to run into difficult people. Remember the old saying, "You can please some of the people some of the time, but you can't please all of the people all of the time." Again just focus on doing your job and putting your patients first and all of the other stuff will eventually take care of itself. Keep an open mind and good luck.

[Ruby Vee, BSN]

some women are drama queens. .

some people are drama queens/kings. in fact, i've known more male drama "queens" than female, both at work and in my personal life. but coming to a board and asserting that women are the problem is just plain offensive.

[llg, PhD, RN]

Oh dear ... I guess I need to clarify one of my earlier statements. Apparently, some people mis-interpreted my statement that "Some women ARE drama queens" to mean that I believe that "No men display maladaptive behaviors." Of course, people of either gender can behave in ways that are non-productive, irritating, destructive, toxic, etc. .... and people of either gender can behave in wonderful ways.

That said ... the general culture of nursing tends to be female-dominated and thus the predominant social behaviors within nursing tend to female-dominated. That can pose particular challenges for men entering the field. We women should acknowledge that and encourage the discussion of those challenges even though it means having to "own up to" some of the maladaptive behaviors most commonly seen in women. We should be able to do that without jumping to the conclusion that one gender is "better" than another.

I myself had problems adapting to the female-dominated of nursing many years ago. I was very close to my father and brothers and had many male friends (as opposed to boyfriends). I found the social climate and the interpersonal interactions of the nursing world to be very different from the world in which I had been raised. Learning to deal with the "female" culture of nursing was very hard for me as I was more accustomed to dealing with things in a more "male-oriented" way.

Even today I have to consciously work at censoring my words when I post at allnurses.com. I participate regularly in this website -- but also in a website related to my hobby of playing poker. The culture of that website is dominated by males in the 15-30 year old age group. The contrast in interaction patters is so striking as to be mind-boggling! It is very difficult for me to go back and forth between the 2 cultures on a daily basis -- but I find that aspect of my "dual life" fascinating.

My point is that I can easily imagine how foreign the world of nursing can be for a male entering the profession. The communication patterns etc. are totally different from many other segments of our society. The OP's original question was a legitimate one and I was/am happy to discuss it honestly and make no apologies for doing so.

llg

[traumaprincess]

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[Corvette Guy]

some people are drama queens/kings. in fact, i've known more male drama "queens" than female, both at work and in my personal life. but coming to a board and asserting that women are the problem is just plain offensive.

did you read llg's entire post? or, are you getting dramatic over what i think is a misinterpretation of the phrase you directly referred too?

[Corvette Guy]

After the response from my post I had to rethink what I wrote. I feel sad that after so many years of advocating for equal rights for all people that my daughter is still growing up in a world where just because she is female she will be judged instantly as being dramatic, etc..... we know all of the stereotypes placed on women. It is acceptable to treat women this way both by women and by men. I find this kind of stereotyping to be very offensive. It is just wrong. But, I need to face the facts that this is the world we live in and I will have to adjust myself, I can't change the world I guess.

This really hits home for me right now. I am nice to work with. I always have new grads asking if they can precept with me, I am well liked and I am a good nurse. I have about 7 years more experience than ANY other nurse on my shift in my unit. I am usually in the charge role when I am not precepting. I feel like I am a good leader. I teach ACLS and BLS in my free time. I have adequate education and I hold numerous certifications. There are only a few nurses with over 4 years nursng experience in my unit Probably 4 of us (all women). Yet none of us were asked to take a position coming open for a mid supervisory position. A nurse with 1.5 years total nursing experience (male) was offered the position before it even came open. When our manager was questioned about this she said men are just easier to work with, they do not complain as much. She continued to say that she was going to try to keep hiring more and more men because our unit would be stronger then.

I already know how many people are thinking that my post was overly dramatic, and are in total agreeance with my manager because they see women the same way. Well, it is unfortunate that women are so undervalued in the work world. We have so much to offer. We all have a lot to offer. I have found that I can say the exact same thing as a man and just because it is coming from a womans mouth it is seen as negative. If a man speeks the same words they are valued words. I do not raise my voice, screem, act hysterical, etc... I once asked a MD for levophed, I gave all the reasons I thought it would be the best thing for the patient and he said no give a liter of NS. My coworker, who I have always admired for being such an exceptional nurse walked out of my room approached the same physician I had just spoke to and came back levophed in hand. We laughed together about it because he was always aware of how much less respect women usually (not always) get, I was able to laugh with him because I felt like he understood how much it really frustrated me to be treated that way.

I do not know what it is like to be a male nurse. But if I knew that there were things that made it harder for men in general or if there was a way that I could make my male coworkers more comfortable I would do my best to help in any way I could. Maybe both men and women should consider that it makes a lot of people feel uncomfortable, self conscious, belittled when they get the whole women are all so, difficult, dramatic, etc..... Maybe other nurses should support women as their coworkers instead of being so judgemental. Try to look at things through another persons eyes. I know when I read the OP I actually felt bad that the poster was having difficulty with assertiveness and being a new nurse. Unfortunately all of the sympathy and compassion I had been feeling was swept away at the end of the post. I guess it must be my problem that I have a hard time sympathizing with someone who I feel I need to be on defense with.

Anyway, I know this is a huge long post about probably nothing. But I really wish that we would all stop trying to diminish the quality of other nurses for anything we can find. LPN vs ADN vs BSN, fat vs thin, male vs female, young vs old, new vs experienced. As easily as it is for anyone to point the finger at my gender and make harsh generalizations I could just as easily find something to criticize any nurse I come in contact with. Yes, every profession has issues, everyone is not going to get along. But if we want our profession to be one of excellence then we should always be trying to improve how we relate with each other, the community, etc....

I have not responded to any of the posts here even though I really did feel like I was first insulted for being female and then shunned for trying to defend my gender. I have felt very uncomfortable to post anywhere here. I am really not into message boards much. Recently though I have felt like I need to branch out and broaden my nursing experience and education. I saw this site as being a great place for nurse comraderie. I will not let how I feel about the OP affect the valuable things I have learned since finding this site. But it definately has made me feel like I need to be much more careful about what I post. I just am not real big on confrontation. I usually can see both sides of any topic. I usually believe in live and let live. So, I am sorry to any of the posters here who thought I somehow missed the point of the OP or was not being understanding. I think I have been misjudged here twice now. But that is ok. I know who I am. I do not feel like I have said anything wrong here. But if I have somehow offended someone again I appologize.

I really like llg's perspective on this, especially her last post. Have you read her post(s)? May I reiterate here the OP NEVER meant to be offensive towards female nurses. This is the Male Nursing Forum, yet not exclusive to male nurse, where male nurses can confide with one another about issues we face in nursing. His post was NOT intended to be a Male vs. Female Thread.

Males view the actions of other females differently than some females view the actions of other females. In otherwords, I, being male, honestly feel that I've witnessed first hand other female RNs get dramatic [thus drama queens] over workplace issues. Does this mean all female RNs are drama queens, NO. Does this mean my perception of another female's reaction in a certain situation is correct regards she is being overly dramatic, POSSIBLY NOT. Have you read the book, Men are from Mars, and Women are from Venus? Maybe replace the title with Male RNs are from Mars & Female RNs are from Venus, LOL.

My wife is an RN, so we talk shop at home. I can tell you from our conversations that she sees some, NOT ALL, female nurses as drama queens. Plus, I really don't think your daughter faces great adversity in whatever profession just because some females are drama queens. I'm all for equal rights with equal qualifications [not a fan of affirmative action policies]. BTW, my wife's thing [as she puts it] is not chatting on message boards, either, just as you mentioned. Nevertheless, please don't feel shunned from this message board community d/t your misinterpretation of the OP's original post. Stick around and just maybe you will no longer be offended by the OPs original post once you digest the thoughts of this thread more thoroughly.

Peace ... BTW, I hope nothing I posted struck you wrong. As of today, I've been on this planet for 45 yrs and I feel

[Corvette Guy]

Oh dear ... I guess I need to clarify one of my earlier statements. Apparently, some people mis-interpreted my statement that "Some women ARE drama queens" to mean that I believe that "No men display maladaptive behaviors." Of course, people of either gender can behave in ways that are non-productive, irritating, destructive, toxic, etc. .... and people of either gender can behave in wonderful ways.

That said ... the general culture of nursing tends to be female-dominated and thus the predominant social behaviors within nursing tend to female-dominated. That can pose particular challenges for men entering the field. We women should acknowledge that and encourage the discussion of those challenges even though it means having to "own up to" some of the maladaptive behaviors most commonly seen in women. We should be able to do that without jumping to the conclusion that one gender is "better" than another.

I myself had problems adapting to the female-dominated of nursing many years ago. I was very close to my father and brothers and had many male friends (as opposed to boyfriends). I found the social climate and the interpersonal interactions of the nursing world to be very different from the world in which I had been raised. Learning to deal with the "female" culture of nursing was very hard for me as I was more accustomed to dealing with things in a more "male-oriented" way.

Even today I have to consciously work at censoring my words when I post at allnurses.com. I participate regularly in this website -- but also in a website related to my hobby of playing poker. The culture of that website is dominated by males in the 15-30 year old age group. The contrast in interaction patters is so striking as to be mind-boggling! It is very difficult for me to go back and forth between the 2 cultures on a daily basis -- but I find that aspect of my "dual life" fascinating.

My point is that I can easily imagine how foreign the world of nursing can be for a male entering the profession. The communication patterns etc. are totally different from many other segments of our society. The OP's original question was a legitimate one and I was/am happy to discuss it honestly and make no apologies for doing so.

llg

:bowingpur

It is female nurses like you that make it possible for males to have an equal opportunity in the nursing profession. You are able to link Mars & Venus together so that nurses, not matter the gender, can work well as a team towards the common denominator of providing the best patient care possible.

When I first joined allnurses.com I found myself getting trouble with the Mods. I was use to message boards on various car sites I frequent, such as LS1Tech, PNWCorvettes, CorvetteForum, HighSpeedDriving, and other male dominated sites. BTW, non of these sites are exclusive to males, in fact one of them was started by a female. IMHO, women driving Sports Cars, or Muscle Cars is really cool. My wife looks sooooo good driving her Honda S2000. Oops, I digress. I had to think back to when I posted on my RN-BSN online message boards. Since 90% of the nursing professors were females I noticed right away the male students had to be very cautious in how they posted on the activity message board. It boils down to men & women think differently. Some women are able to understand the opposite gender [and vice versa] better than others regards to every day conversations.

Anyway llg, thank you for your contribution to this Thread.

[traumaprincess]

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[Corvette Guy]

Apparently I am the only one who has anything to learn from this thread. Thank you for your reassurance that my daughter will have no adversity in the work world, as I am sure no women do now, it is all just drama I am sure. Thank you for your thoughts. Yes, I have read mars and venus, etc.... yes I did read llg's post, we were posting at the same time apparently. She is well spoken, I do enjoy her posts. I am very glad that in the adversity you face as a male nurse there are some women who understand you.

Have a happy birthday. I hope you are able to enjoy your day. :balloons:

I don't appreciate your incorrect paraphrase of my speak about your daughter's possible adversity in the work world; I NEVER posted, or intended to reassure you she will never face adversity in the work place. IMHO, your getting a little dramatic with the use of the word drama, LOL. Why the sarcasm towards me?

Yes, I too, am thankful that in the adversity male nurses face in the predominantly female profession of nursing that some females are able to understand their male peers regards to some female RNs are drama queens.

BTW, thank you for wishing me a happy birthday. Your post has me a little confused on what to take literally and what is meant to be taken between the lines. Nonetheless, thanks!

[traumaprincess]

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