higher pay for BSN grads?

PANurseRN1 · Sep 25, 2006

The POINT is that when a new nurse takes the NCLEX (yes, the same exam that every new nurse takes to become a RN) and gets their first job, they are ALL doing the SAME job. I can't think of any BSN nurses that I know who have been saddled with more expectations or responsibilities straight out of school than any other new nurse.
It is not until the BSN (or ADN student, for that matter) student advances themselves in the workplace, that they should be compensated for their performance and responsibilities on that NEW advanced position for which they are qualified...and not before.
Nurses should be focusing on the clinical and managerial skills gained from proven performance, experience and hard work, and not solely on the letters they have behind their name. I don't understand why having a BSN behind one's name suddenly makes that person more knowledgeable and qualified directly from nursing school (notice the "directly from school" part). I could go on and on about my experiences with BSN students and new nurses, but that's like beating a dead horse (and for every BSN student there would be an ADN student doing or not doing the same thing).
Even a doctor, lawyer, or say, an engineer, doesn't start out at the top. If that highly-educated doctor or lawyer doesn't perform appropriately in their responsibilities they are not going to go far with that higher education...be it doctor, lawyer, nurse, or whoever.
I must take exception to the premise that a BSN degree is more difficult...becoming and being a nurse is diffucult no matter where you study.
The difference, in my opinion, between those with ADNs and those with BSNs is money, pure and simple. Of course, everyone would love to have an advanced degree, wouldn't they? But there are those who simply can't afford it...parents can't pay, middle class people who can't qualify for grants, and those who would prefer not to spend the beginning of their careers in deep debt when they know their employer will provide them with tuition reimbursement for further education. Why aren't the issues of enhanced subsidies and grants with equal access to further education for nursing students discussed in these US vs. THEM debates
Again, I believe that we have a perfect example of the so-called HAVES and HAVE NOTS (for whatever reason)...with the HAVES once again thinking the HAVE NOTS are somehow inferior. Performance is performance, both in technical and managerial situations. Is a BSN with a C average still superior to an ADN with an A average.
People seem to be implying, here, that the quality of nurses should be based solely on the school they went to and their so-called level of education and not the quality of their commitment to patients and the prevention and treatment of illnesses in all settings...managerial or technical.
Why can't we stop this superiority complex syndrome on all sides? I'd like to know how many of us became nurses JUST for the money...
Okay, okay...I'll get off my soapbox now, it's time for work anyway!

Excellent post!

mvanz9999, RN · Sep 25, 2006

Just to balance this out, I'm currently in IT. There are people in this field that have Masters degrees in MIS, and they make exactly the same, and in some cases less. In this field, they don't care about your schooling...only your experience and whether you can or cannot do the job. (I don't have any formal training in IT, but those MIS people don't make a dime more than me).

CJRN02 · Sep 26, 2006

I don't understand why there is so much hostility on this subject. Yes, I realize that as an RN we all take the same test and as a staff nurse we all perform the same job. Personally, I think diploma and ADN programs are better at clinically preparing their nurses as I felt I had better clinical experience than the BSN grads I started working with, but the politics is that people who obtain a higher degree generally should get monitarily rewarded for their extra schooling. Should a nurse practitioner get paid the same as a staff nurse if they are working as a staff nurse? Just because they aren't in a NP role, should they not be compensated in some way for all their extra knowledge and education? It DOES NOT take money to get a higher degree. Most hospitals have tution assistance so even though it might take you longer, you can get your BSN completion paid for, or there is the US Reserves, that will pay for all your education if you serve one weekend a month and two weeks a year for our country, or there ARE grants for middle class folk, you just have to apply for them and work to find one that you qualify for. I get so sick and tired of people using SOCIAL CLASS as an excuse to not advance their education! In fact, people with lower class have an easier time since they can qualify for all the programs that the middle/upper class cannot. If you live in the state of NM you can get your BSN completion for free. Eastern NM University actually has a free BSN program for NM residents. There might be programs like this in other states, you just have to do some research and find out. Hope this doen't stir up more hostility, I am just trying to open the eyes of some people who seem angry and closed minded about this subject.

CJRN02 · Sep 26, 2006

Romie~ Thanks for the encouragement. I do love precepting new grads. I try my hardest to change the old timers view of nursing by "eating their young". I remember all to well being harrased by the old timers when I was a new grad, and it did nothing except upset me. I learned nothing from those who were mean and hostile and everything from the ones who cut me slack for not knowing everything and allowing me to learn at my own pace. I feel as though I am a very good nurse now but took things slowly and tried not to be supernurse from the get-go. I still learn things EVERY day! It is the new grads that act like they know everything and don't want help that are really scary!

PANurseRN1 · Oct 3, 2006

Romie~ Thanks for the encouragement. I do love precepting new grads. I try my hardest to change the old timers view of nursing by "eating their young". I remember all to well being harrased by the old timers when I was a new grad, and it did nothing except upset me. I learned nothing from those who were mean and hostile and everything from the ones who cut me slack for not knowing everything and allowing me to learn at my own pace. I feel as though I am a very good nurse now but took things slowly and tried not to be supernurse from the get-go. I still learn things EVERY day! It is the new grads that act like they know everything and don't want help that are really scary!

What an offensive thing to say! :madface:

"Old-timers" are not the only ones who are guilty of treating other nurses badly; your own post is blatantly disrespectful to experienced nurses like me who do not "eat our young." Yes, we should all be so thankful there are new nurses out there to set us experienced nurses straight. :rolleyes:

lauralassie · Oct 4, 2006

pay should be based on preformance rather than degree! If you come out of school and don't know how to do you job it shouldn't matter what kind of degree you have. (BSN

ZASHAGALKA, RN · Oct 4, 2006

It comes down to 'differentiation of practice'. Differentiating based solely on education is just silly and has proven for 40 yrs to be an unworkable model. There is so much more that goes into making a nurse.

But, in the real world, we 'differentiate' on a variety of reasons: experience, relative scarcity of specialty, certs, leadership, etc.

Education should rightly be ONE of those differentiations, just not the sole one.

But, just like my EXPERIENCE grants me a rightly deserved premium, so should education.

In reality, we DON'T all do the same work for the same pay. Nor, should we. Our work environments depend upon a variety of skill sets. And the higher that skill set, the more it should be promoted. The sure way to do that is the bottom line.

~faith,

Timothy.

banditrn · Oct 17, 2006

Years ago when I started at the hospital, I started with a BSN grad. She admitted she had less clinical time than I had, and was less familiar with the day to day procedures. It doesn't take much time to catch up, tho.

I never felt the desire for a BSN - I'd done many things during my life, and knew that management was not for me.

In that same hospital, tho, to advance took a BSN. I would encourage younger people to try for it.

Tweety, BSN, RN · Oct 17, 2006

Years ago when I started at the hospital, I started with a BSN grad. She admitted she had less clinical time than I had, and was less familiar with the day to day procedures. It doesn't take much time to catch up, tho..

I think that was true about BSN programs, but the last 10 or so years they've heard the criticisms and have increased their clinical time. It's about equal in most cases to ADNs programs.

But you're right, it wasn't always true.

Even though there are still some who without knowing what they are talking about say "ADNs get more clinical experience". It definately isn't true with the programs here, in fact they are exactly equal.

kepschafer · Oct 19, 2006

G'Day!

Just wondering what the starting wages are for RN's with BSN in the US. I am aware that different states pay different amounts.

In Australia the 6 states and 2 territories all pay different amounts but the average for a first year out with a Bachelor of Nursing (BN) is about AU$40000, which is about US$30000 a year or about AU$19 per hour, about US$14 per hour.

There is no diploma entry into nursing in Australia. To become a RN you must complete a BN.

Thanks for your help with my interest.

Keppel :mortarboard:

crazylilkelly · Dec 13, 2006

my hospital only gives a $1,300 bonus for new bsn grads. other than that, everything else is the same. however, there are roles in the hospital that require a bsn, those tend to pay more. but jobs worked by bsn or adns pay the same.

psychonaut · Dec 14, 2006

I actually calculated out the clinical hours for both the bsn and adn programs in my locale for a 1st semester presentation on "Nursing as a Profession". I was surprised to see that they were actually just about equal in time (bsn>adn by 30min).

I should note that my position was a bit contrary, given the blatant anti-adn attitude of our source text. Having been reading allnurses for a couple of years prior to beginning the program has prepared me in ways not expected by my instructors. I argued for mutual respect, of course, and advised my fellow students to appreciate the knowledge and experience of all the nurses we would be working with.

I think that was true about BSN programs, but the last 10 or so years they've heard the criticisms and have increased their clinical time. It's about equal in most cases to ADNs programs.
But you're right, it wasn't always true.
Even though there are still some who without knowing what they are talking about say "ADNs get more clinical experience". It definately isn't true with the programs here, in fact they are exactly equal.