higher pay for BSN grads?

ZASHAGALKA, RN · Mar 1, 2007

As I said, I dont' know how it is in other places just how it is here. But yes, there is a big disparity between the clinical hours here and the ADN program down the road. Also the places that we go to vs. where they go too are quite different. The ADN's go to the same local hospital. Where as we go sometimes over 100 miles + away to places like Atlanta, and Birmingham to do our clinicals in settings that we just couldn't get here. If you have more training, you should get more pay, even with your 480, I still will have a good 25% more clinical hours than you will/do/did.

I doubt it. You'd have to provide some proof of that, like links to the website of both programs.

See, here's the thing. The number of clinical hours that programs have to do are strictly regulated by the SBONs (State Boards of Nursing). That in turn, is based on the requirements by the NCSBN (that States must meet to use NCLEX as their licensing exam) and by the NLN (that certifies the individual programs).

You might be able to convince me that your specific program has more voluntary clinical hours then the State mandates for all RN programs, but you cannot convince me that is a function of it being a BSN program. In that case, all other programs, BSN and ADN alike, have less clinical hours.

You could also convince me that BSN programs have a few more clinicals related to community health, management, etc. However, you have made the claim that your program offers three times the number of clinical hours as a neighboring ADN program. This is just not the case. I dispute the validity of that statement.

Let's be clear though, I do not dispute this claim because I question your underlying integrity (I simply believe you to be mistaken) or because I'm trying to be argumentative. I dispute your claim because it's easily refutable. Name the two programs you are referring to and I'll prove it to you. A few quick phone calls can easily settle this issue.

A claim that BSN has more bedside prep clinical hours than ADN is baseless. It's just as baseless as the oft reverse claim, the ADN programs have more clinical hours - and believe me, THAT latter baseless claim is made much more often in this debate.

~faith,

Timothy.

burn out · Mar 1, 2007

No they do not get paid higher wages where I work. I would like to know why though..why shouldn't someone with a higher degree get paid more? I don't care what test they take they still have more knowledge and should get reimbursed for their patients and hospital benfitting from that knowledge.

Just because the laws make it so nurses can enter with a 2 year degree does not mean that the industry can't pay and different levels, doesn't the military make a difference in pay between the two in rank and pay?

Nursebarebari · Mar 1, 2007

re:Higher salary for BSN

Nooooooon! my hospital pays $.50/hr more for BSN, the only differece i see on my 2 wks check is less than $11.00. i think those of us who went back to for the BSN did it for the education because financial reward is not encouraging. My annual experience differencial is higher.

Tweety, BSN, RN · Mar 2, 2007

Hey ya'll, I'm pretty new to this site, however I did have a comment to make here about the topic of conversation. I am older than most BSN students and going back for my BSN in an accelerated course for those who already have a BS in another area. The one thing that I have noticed between the ADN program down the street and the BSN program where I'm at is that we have almost 3x the amount of clinical hours as the ADN program does. The ADN program does around 180-220 hours of clinical preparation during their studies. My BSN program (accelerated and traditional) does between 550-600 hours of clinicals (MS, OB, Peds, CC, Psych, Comm, Preceptor ship). I'm not sure about others programs outside of where I'm at but our Preceptorship alone is 240 hours, 40 of those are specialty hours. (ER, OR, NeuroICU, etc). So we get a pretty well rounded clinical experience and get to become pretty comfortable with our basic skills. As we all know, you learn vastly more in practical application than you do while sitting in a classroom. I don't know about ya'll but I would think that a nurse who has more training and "clinical hours" would be worth more money.

You're in an accellerated program so you hours are double in one year what the ADNs do in two years. It might seem like you're doing more per week because you are, you're doing double time. But over two years they should be fairly equal to your hours total.

If not, I stand corrected, that's pretty incredible. The BSN and ADN students here get exactly the same number of hours total.

Good luck. I precept accellerated students often on my unit and I know it's not an easy program. They are doing 10 hours with me on med-surg and then the same hours in a psych facility. It's a maddening pace.

There are minimum number of acceptable clinical hours for accreditation by the state and by NLN.

gerry79 · Mar 2, 2007

As I said, I dont' know how it is in other places just how it is here. But yes, there is a big disparity between the clinical hours here and the ADN program down the road. Also the places that we go to vs. where they go too are quite different. The ADN's go to the same local hospital. Where as we go sometimes over 100 miles + away to places like Atlanta, and Birmingham to do our clinicals in settings that we just couldn't get here. If you have more training, you should get more pay, even with your 480, I still will have a good 25% more clinical hours than you will/do/did.

That may be so. But in my neck of the woods (Boston, the self proclaimed mecca of education and medicine) ADN's, and BSN's go to the same world class teaching hospitals for clinical. Also in my neck of the woods, 6 out of the top 10 NCLEX pass rates were from ADN programs. So is it fair to say that ADN programs in my area provide a better education than BSN programs, thus produce better nurses. No it isnt, but you see how numbers can be used to support any argument.

burn out · Mar 2, 2007

re:Higher salary for BSN
Nooooooon! my hospital pays $.50/hr more for BSN, the only differece i see on my 2 wks check is less than $11.00. i think those of us who went back to for the BSN did it for the education because financial reward is not encouraging. My annual experience differencial is higher.

I didn't get my BSN because I wanted the extra knowledge, I was told 20 years ago that a BSN was going to be required (like in the near future) and it would be better to go ahead and get it now than have to worry about it latter or worse not have a job later. I really feel like the schools lied to me.

lauralassie · Mar 2, 2007

As I said, I dont' know how it is in other places just how it is here. But yes, there is a big disparity between the clinical hours here and the ADN program down the road. Also the places that we go to vs. where they go too are quite different. The ADN's go to the same local hospital. Where as we go sometimes over 100 miles + away to places like Atlanta, and Birmingham to do our clinicals in settings that we just couldn't get here. If you have more training, you should get more pay, even with your 480, I still will have a good 25% more clinical hours than you will/do/did.

Just because you go to larger hospitals doesn't mean you had better experiences. I went to a diploma school. We went to different cities for various clinicals (peds, psych etc) but it was useless. The better experience actually came from the local hospital, so I guess it just depends. Bigger doesn't mean better. For instance, we went to a level 1 trauma center, kind of participated in level 1 traumas - but in the local hospital when a trauma came in our instructor was right there beside us, letting us actually do the work , not just watch. Also , we were able to see how a facility oporates with different resourses. How to stabilize a pt so they can be flown to a level 1 center. In OR, we were scrub nurses with the instuctor at our side.Most physicians were happy to teach us at the local hospital. At the major university hospitals we were in the way. They had the mass of med students, interns to intimidate , couldn't be bothered with us.

Atl_John · Mar 2, 2007

Ifyou wish the programs are Auburn University's BSN Accelerated program, and the other is Southern Union Community College.

I looked up the program at Southern Union, its a total of 5 semesters and well, the classes they have to take are FAR less strenuous than what I've had to take. http://www.suscc.cc.al.us/SubTopicPages/InstructionalDivisions/HealthSciences/DeptProgs/AssociateDegreeNursing_1.cfm#Overview

For a total of 72 hours in TOTAL only 42 are nursing

Heres my school and my program

http://www.auburn.edu/academic/nursing/academics/and_prog/and_course.html

You have to already have a bachelors in another discipline to get into this particular program. I have 54 hours of just Nursing courses over 4 semesters, to include the 34 hours of Pre-reqs to even qualify for the program. Yet all of those pre reqs are just to get into nursing schools, thats not even counting all the other English, Math (higher than intermedate Algebra), etc that you have to take. All in all I have over 200 semester hours of school under my belt.

The Traditional program you have to take 63 hrs to even get into nursing school then another 63 hours of nursing courses. Thats 21 hours or 1/3 as many nursing courses as a ADN has to take. You can't HONESTY expect me to believe that an ADN is as prepared than a BSN who has 33% more courses under their belt. Sorry, not gonna buy it.

And yes your right, we do a TON of clinicals. But the Traditionals are right there with us, they have just as much as we do, just on different times/days. Such as this week, I have two days of M/S on the CVSU thats 16 hours total, along with 8 hours of OB this Friday. Our summer is where they really bump up our schedules and we really get a ton of hours, along with our Preceptorship which is 240.

Tweety, BSN, RN · Mar 2, 2007

Ifyou wish the programs are Auburn University's BSN Accelerated program, and the other is Southern Union Community College.
I looked up the program at Southern Union, its a total of 5 semesters and well, the classes they have to take are FAR less strenuous than what I've had to take. http://www.suscc.cc.al.us/SubTopicPages/InstructionalDivisions/HealthSciences/DeptProgs/AssociateDegreeNursing_1.cfm#Overview
For a total of 72 hours in TOTAL only 42 are nursing
Heres my school and my program
http://www.auburn.edu/academic/nursing/academics/and_prog/and_course.html
You have to already have a bachelors in another discipline to get into this particular program. I have 54 hours of just Nursing courses over 4 semesters, to include the 34 hours of Pre-reqs to even qualify for the program. Yet all of those pre reqs are just to get into nursing schools, thats not even counting all the other English, Math (higher than intermedate Algebra), etc that you have to take. All in all I have over 200 semester hours of school under my belt.
The Traditional program you have to take 63 hrs to even get into nursing school then another 63 hours of nursing courses. Thats 21 hours or 1/3 as many nursing courses as a ADN has to take. You can't HONESTY expect me to believe that an ADN is as prepared than a BSN who has 33% more courses under their belt. Sorry, not gonna buy it.
And yes your right, we do a TON of clinicals. But the Traditionals are right there with us, they have just as much as we do, just on different times/days. Such as this week, I have two days of M/S on the CVSU thats 16 hours total, along with 8 hours of OB this Friday. Our summer is where they really bump up our schedules and we really get a ton of hours, along with our Preceptorship which is 240.

Again, the reason why you have so many clinicals in a week is because you're accellerated, doing double time.

I don't care if you buy it or not. The basic nursing courses are pretty similar, med-surg, pysch nursing, ob., how to assess, diagnosis, evaluate, treat, etc. Pharmacology, fundamentals, critical thinking, etc.

Those extra courses don't necessarily prepare you better as a novice bedside nurse any more than an ADN course. There's a reason we take the same NCLEX, because the core nursing courses are very similar.

Whats different is indeed those 33% more courses. To finish my BSN, I'm having to take those courses. I think I'm on course 16 of 18.(Several were courses like Chemistry, two religion courses, Western Civ., Statistics.....others were nursing related like Community Health, Research, Nursing Leadership, etc.) These courses aren't going to prepare me any better than my ADN program to function as a bedside nurse.

Sorry, but I'm not buying that you're better prepared to function as an RN than an ADN RN. Agree to disagree on this point and thanks for listening.

MSADN, ADN · Mar 2, 2007

ADN program in Mississippi -- Just under 600 clinical hours, 42 semester hours of Nursing courses. When I go for my BSN at UMC, I'll need 30 hours of Nursing courses. Only one course will have a clinical component. The rest is Nursing theory, another assessment course, and management/leadership.

If I've correctly added the total nursing hours, when I finish my BSN, I'll have 72 hours of courses that have NURSING on them. Interestingly enough, NCLEX appears to be based on those first 42 hours of nursing work, which I will receive one hell of a lot cheaper at the ADN level than I would have at the BSN level.

jjjoy, LPN · Mar 2, 2007

Atl_Jon - it sounds like you're in a great BSN program. Just know that there ARE great ADN programs as well. And there are also both BSN and ADN programs with the minimum amount of clinical hours and that don't have any extended preceptorships. My program had a community health component but those "clinicals" weren't clinical in nature and wouldn't practically help in bedside nursing. Unless all BSN programs guarantee more acute care clinical training, the argument that BSNs in general come better prepared to the bedside nursing just isn't true.

newnicurn · Mar 2, 2007

I agree with you Lindarn. I am a fairly new nurse (a little over a year) with a bsn. My facility doesn't pay based on degree. They also don't have a union. They also don't pay extra for charge nurse. If my hospital can save a penny they will. Before I became charge nurse I thought the hospital didn't have to staff we needed. But as charge there were days I had to tell pre diem staff to leave because it cost the hospital. Forget patient safety and care. I think education would help us unite as nurses and demand respect.