help! Are surgical techs and RNs the same??

SFCardiacRN · Nov 27, 2005

A general manager may have been a scrub at one point but by definition they are now a general manager. Just because a CEO started off in the mail room doesn't mean the company is being run by a clerk. To get back on point, sometimes animosity exists between Rn's & Techs. This is a real problem that needs to be addressed. Some Rn's are upset that they no longer get to scrub and some techs act like passing instruments takes more skill than running a case. Both have forgotten the team approach and both need to put the patients needs over petty squabbles. (former tech, current RN)

sunnyjohn · Nov 27, 2005

*sigh*

jacrn2 · Nov 27, 2005

No...RN's and Surgical Tech's are not the same...you're right to be upset.

Pam RN wrote:

"Where I work our supervisor is a tech and is good at the job, respects everyone and gives us nurses our due. I think the company that owns the centers is making a habit of hiring techs for managerial roles because "they're cheaper" as one person put it. That then, disturbs me. I feel that some techs really think our job is a piece of cake and if one is good at their job they can make it look easy. But, as we all know there are so many responsibilites that the techs are void of so then it gives them a sense of confidence without the consequenses."

I can't believe they're hiring techs as managers? As the RN you should be giving direction to those under you...not taking direction from them. This is ridiculous. I realize they may be able to pay them less, but they can't give a nurse direction. RN or LPN/LVN. Crazy. I don't think I could work for a place that did this. I can give credit where credit is due and I show the tech's I work with mutual respect. They have a great deal of surgical knowledge. But they do not have a great deal of Nursing knowledge. They don't know the rationals for some of the things we do. However, tech's can make or break you in the OR. It is a pleasure to work with a good tech who knows what they're doing and has everything they need...get them mad and you could be running all day. Sad but true. Thus proving the point...the RN needs to be (and is legally) responsible for everything in the room...supplies, equipment...the Tech, overall patient care & safety. So, them telling me what to do? I don't think so.

grimmy, RN · Nov 27, 2005

i am a rn or in great britain, hoping some day to get to the states to work. however here in britain, the rns scrub and circulate. the responsibility of counts and sharps falls equally on the count nurse and the scrub nurse.
scrubbing for me is the absolute favorite part of my job, so will i not be able to scrub in the states? ....

i'm an rn in the us, and this weekend i have done nothing but scrub! i like it very much, aside from the fact that i'm not terribly well acquainted with neuro, and i was fumbling on that particular case. i'm usually doing thoracic or vascular cases. a lot depends upon the facility in which you will work. all of the nurses where i work must be able to scrub, and i can say that i scrub at least 2-3 days in a typical week. we have a fair amount of travel nurses, and some do not scrub all that much. the surgeons like to have a team member scrub, so that means me. i think if you speak up about your preference, you can get yourself out behind the mayo fairly often.

nubes · Nov 28, 2005

Thank you Grimmy for replying

I'm very pleased to hear I would be able to scrub in US of A. May bump into you someday! Hopefully not when you're scrubbed!!:chuckle

ortess1971 · Dec 4, 2005

Bernadette and Corvette Guy, If you had actually read my post, I was talking about the simple issue of respect. I understand that a nurse's license is a precious thing that takes a lot of hard work to acheive. Why get all upset when I state that whether you are Rn, CST ORT, housekeeping etc etc, one is entitled to respect and consideration for their skills and abilities? We all get ticked off when a surgeon will treat someone in the OR poorly. People take different roads in their life and there are incompetent and ignorant people in all professions. I've worked with some great RN's and some very incompetent RN's. Likewise, some of my fellow techs are truly awe-inspiring and some make me want to throw a retractor at their head. The OR is all about teamwork-it sounds like a tired cliche but I believe that is the way we provide the best possible care for our patients, not by being obsessive about what letters we have after our names. P.S. This is the last time I'm posting on this thread-I agree with the mod this is a very touchy subject and I've put in my 2 cents. Also, ultimately the surgeon "runs the case/room" not the R.N.

Corvette Guy · Dec 5, 2005

Bernadette and Corvette Guy, If you had actually read my post, I was talking about the simple issue of respect. I understand that a nurse's license is a precious thing that takes a lot of hard work to acheive. Why get all upset when I state that whether you are Rn, CST ORT, housekeeping etc etc, one is entitled to respect and consideration for their skills and abilities? We all get ticked off when a surgeon will treat someone in the OR poorly. People take different roads in their life and there are incompetent and ignorant people in all professions. I've worked with some great RN's and some very incompetent RN's. Likewise, some of my fellow techs are truly awe-inspiring and some make me want to throw a retractor at their head. The OR is all about teamwork-it sounds like a tired cliche but I believe that is the way we provide the best possible care for our patients, not by being obsessive about what letters we have after our names. P.S. This is the last time I'm posting on this thread-I agree with the mod this is a very touchy subject and I've put in my 2 cents. Also, ultimately the surgeon "runs the case/room" not the R.N.

Yes, I did actually read your post. BTW, I never got upset over the issue of respect for all members of the OR team. I'm highly supportive of respect given to all members of the OR team.

Yes, the surgeon is ultimately responsible for the patient. However, the Circulator monitors the OR staff scrubbed in the room in regards to sterile technique, ensures the room gets turned over, as well as makes sure the room is ready for the next case, and communicates with the Charge RN if the room is going to run over into the next scheduled case, etc., etc., etc.

Ferret · Dec 6, 2005

Yes, the surgeon is ultimately responsible for the patient.

Actually, in our roles as patient advocate, it is our role to challenge the surgeon about their decisions regarding patient safety if we disagree. They are not the "Captain of the Ship" any more, there has been legal precedent that makes the RN also responsible for the patient. The surgeon does have to listen to us when we stop the operation to find the sponge that they left deep in the abdomen, or find that blasted haemostat that some twit left clamped to something vital.

We are responsible for our job, they are responsible for theirs. Our jobs overlap, as do our responsibilities. Maintaining the staus quo and defending the archaic "Captain of the Ship" concept is against the general thrust in nursing to gain respect as professionals in our own right. This weakens our ability to deliver the best possible patient care. Part of the training of a RN is to analyse and recognise the roles of the team in the workplace, and delegate tasks to those we judge skilled in performing them.

I'm sorry to all the technicians and other nurses out there who might think otherwise, but the simple fact is that they do their tasks and have responsibility as delegated to them by a registered nurse, who also maintains ultimate responsibility for the patient and the actions of those delegated tasks. The surgeon has responsibility for the operation, registered nurses are responsible for the theatre.

Ferret :devil:

Corvette Guy · Dec 7, 2005

Yes, the surgeon is ultimately responsible for the patient. However, the Circulator monitors the OR staff scrubbed in the room in regards to sterile technique, ensures the room gets turned over, as well as makes sure the room is ready for the next case, and communicates with the Charge RN if the room is going to run over into the next scheduled case, etc., etc., etc.
Actually, in our roles as patient advocate, it is our role to challenge the surgeon about their decisions regarding patient safety if we disagree. They are not the "Captain of the Ship" any more, there has been legal precedent that makes the RN also responsible for the patient. The surgeon does have to listen to us when we stop the operation to find the sponge that they left deep in the abdomen, or find that blasted haemostat that some twit left clamped to something vital.
We are responsible for our job, they are responsible for theirs. Our jobs overlap, as do our responsibilities. Maintaining the staus quo and defending the archaic "Captain of the Ship" concept is against the general thrust in nursing to gain respect as professionals in our own right. This weakens our ability to deliver the best possible patient care. Part of the training of a RN is to analyse and recognise the roles of the team in the workplace, and delegate tasks to those we judge skilled in performing them.
I'm sorry to all the technicians and other nurses out there who might think otherwise, but the simple fact is that they do their tasks and have responsibility as delegated to them by a registered nurse, who also maintains ultimate responsibility for the patient and the actions of those delegated tasks. The surgeon has responsibility for the operation, registered nurses are responsible for the theatre.
Ferret

Hey Ferret,

I agree with you 100%. I wish you would have originally quoted my entire thought, such as I did above italicized. The surgeon is responsible for the patient. Without the surgeon there would be no surgical procedure. However, the surgeon does not run the room, the RN Circulator runs the room.

:)

Ferret · Dec 7, 2005

Hey Ferret,
I agree with you 100%. I wish you would have originally quoted my entire thought, such as I did above italicized.

Hi Corvette Guy,

I don't believe in quoting whole posts unless they are very short. Big posts that get repeated several times in forums just end up cluttering the thread up, when they obviously already have been read by anyone reading the forum. Thus, I tend to take small, relevant quotes and use them to elaborate further on the topic with new concepts, thereby adding to the discussion, rather than just parroting someone else's lines.

The surgeon is responsible for the patient. Without the surgeon there would be no surgical procedure. However, the surgeon does not run the room, the RN Circulator runs the room.

You have undermined some of what I was saying here in agreeing with me 100%. BOTH the RN and the surgeon have responsibility for the patient, with the nurse acting as a patient advocate and taking care of the patient's safety. Examples such as "Time Out" and ensuring that the count is complete before closure if there is in any doubt are times when the RN can and should OVERRIDE the surgeon's wish to bully on and finish in order to protect the patient's safety.

If the RN has a responsibility to override the surgeon, there are grounds for questioning who is in charge in that situation. The same goes for the Anaethetist being able to stop an operation, as well. There is no captain of the SS OR, it is controlled by consensus, all of the senior personel agreeing that it is safe to continue.

Ferret :devil:

Hehe, go on, :angryfire me... I'm interested in intelligent discussion on this contraversial issue. F :devil:

[edit; the last comment is not aimed at CG or anyone in particular... F]

Corvette Guy · Dec 7, 2005

Hi Corvette Guy,
You have undermined some of what I was saying here in agreeing with me 100%. BOTH the RN and the surgeon have responsibility for the patient, with the nurse acting as a patient advocate and taking care of the patient's safety. Examples such as "Time Out" and ensuring that the count is complete before closure if there is in any doubt are times when the RN can and should OVERRIDE the surgeon's wish to bully on and finish in order to protect the patient's safety.
If the RN has a responsibility to override the surgeon, there are grounds for questioning who is in charge in that situation. The same goes for the Anaethetist being able to stop an operation, as well. There is no captain of the SS OR, it is controlled by consensus, all of the senior personel agreeing that it is safe to continue.
Ferret
Hehe, go on, :angryfire me... I'm interested in intelligent discussion on this contraversial issue. F
[edit; the last comment is not aimed at CG or anyone in particular... F]

Geez... I thought I was a friend, not a foe in regard to this Threads topic. Yet, you seem to want a debate with me :confused: At least, your choice of words would have me to believe such, i.e. undermine.

Ferret · Dec 8, 2005

Geez... I thought I was a friend, not a foe in regard to this Threads topic. Yet, you seem to want a debate with me At least, your choice of words would have me to believe such, i.e. undermine.

I took/take you as a friend. I was pointing out that you had weakened (undermined) or disagreed with my comments, which was ironic when you said you agreed with me 100%. It just triggered my sense of humour, nothing else.

Healthy debate furthers a topic, either between friends or foes. As a matter if fact, healthy debate can only happen between friends, as foes tend to rapidly degrade any debate into something distinctly unhealthy.

Ferret :devil:

[edit; The edit note in my last post was designed to SPECIFICALLY point out that the challenge/debate was not aimed at you, Corvette Guy (CG). F :devil: ]