help! Are surgical techs and RNs the same??

BernadetteRNBSN · Nov 19, 2005

Hey Corvette guy, Thank you so much. I could not have said it any better. However somedays i would rather be scrubbed. :uhoh3: :uhoh3: :uhoh3: .

Anywho we'll see if she's singing that same song when she's circulating on her own. Have a nice day, b-

Corvette Guy · Nov 19, 2005

Hey Corvette guy, Thank you so much. I could not have said it any better. However somedays i would rather be scrubbed. :uhoh3: .
Anywho we'll see if she's singing that same song when she's circulating on her own. Have a nice day, b-

Yea, I definitely enjoy scrubbing-in.

I get the strangest looks from the "new" Scrub techs whenever I scrub-in as the primary Scrub. Then, one of the "old time" Scrub Techs will inform them I was a CST for 3 yrs before becoming a nurse.

shodobe · Nov 20, 2005

The problem with this whole scenario is most, if not all, "new" techs think or have been told by older techs that this part of perioperative nursing is exclusively theirs. They have to remember that the surgical techs were invented out of necessity of the hospital administrator. When I started in OR nursing, almost 30 years ago, the only places you saw techs in were either the military or some MDs private little clinic. RNs were scrubbing long before techs were even allowed in the acute setting. The nurse has been slowly pushed out of this role due to economic situations beyond their control. I have been lucky where I work because we only use RNs, period. When you come to work here you have to learn both jobs, scrubbing and circulating. You have to be able to scrub ALL cases that come through the door. I have had the oppurtunity to interview at a few places over the years and have had Directors tripping over their feet trying to get me to come and work for them because I could do both. RNs that scrub are a rarity now a days because most places can't or won't train them because it is cheaper to hire a tech for that position. I work PT at a few other places that use techs all the time and most if not all are very good at what they do. They like the idea that I can scrub them out for breaks and lunches because most of the time they won't get these. To answer the primary question, techs are NOT the same as an RN. Each has their role and each needs to know that role and not to venture beyond it. Obviously having an RN that can do both roles is a tremendous advantage over a tech because of the versatility of the RN, but all hospital administrators will always try to save a few dollars by hiring techs over RNs for the scrub position.

spyder · Nov 23, 2005

I really want to chew up a lot of people's opinions on this board. Although I do understand that we all have the right to bear our own opinions. I also understand that people get angry at work, and they come here to vent. So there is no point in saying someone is wrong, but I will use a few examples of what I have read here to get my point across.

Yes I am a scrub. Now before you make any assumption on me. I will let you know that I went to college for 4 years and got my degrees in music marketing and computer programming. I chose to continue my education after I graduated because I didn't want to spend the rest of my life doing something I didn't have my heart set into.

Ethically speaking. The hospitals have to treat RN's and Scrubs the same. Otherwise they could find themselves in a discrimination law suit. No it doesn't mean that a scrub has the same job description as a RN, but it does mean that they have to be treated with equal respect. It is the law.

Respect? Oh what a great time this is going to be.

Lets get straight to the facts here. While your particular situation might involve someone acting like an ass. It could be cause they are tired of people treating them poorly. I've read many posts on this board, and in all honesty many of your attitudes disgust me. People complain about how they feel they are being treated. Maybe there is something you have done to that person. If there isn't anything you have done. Then talk to them. Gussy up some balls and take it up with them. I don't care who they are. Scrub, Dr., Housekeeping, etc. Also maybe try showing them some respect too. Maybe they are having a hard time at work, because they feel like everyone is stepping on them.

As for the way people act. Some people are just rude. It sucks, but what are you going to do about it. Nothing? Or maybe try an alternate route. Tell your boss that you would prefer not to work with that person. Maybe tell the person. "Hey your acting like an ass and I am getting sick and tired of it." Better yet really look into the situation from both sides, and try to figure out why this person is acting this way towards you. Here is an example. When I was working for a hospital. I would work with this RN who was awful. She was very slow, not just moving, but mentally she didn't seem to be able to comprehend what I needed from her. While at first I could deal with it. Overtime I would just pissed and snap at her. I even had Drs. trying to help me calm down. I just couldn't work with this person. I really did try to work with her. It was just after awhile I lost my patience for the person, because I knew how things were going to be in the case. Finally one day I sat and thought about it. I realised that her natural language was a foriegn language and that she must have to translate stuff in her head. So I just let it go from there. So the best thing you can do is maybe look at it from there stand point and see if that helps things. If they are still and ass, then it doesn't matter what they do they will always be an ass.

Scrubs running a surgery center.

If they have a business degree. Guess what that takes precidence over your nursing degree. Also experience says a whole lot more than a piece of paper. I've worked in many situations where a procedure isn't going so well, and a doc. has asked my opinion on any techinical ideas that might work. Many times they have used my ideas, and guess what they have worked. I didn't demand they do it my way. They just asked for a suggestion and gave it a shot. They asked me cause this is my job and what I have experience in.

Life is all in how you live it. If you demand respect from people, you won't get it. If you show respect towards others, and treat them like intelligent human beings, then you will get it back. Maybe not from everyone, but the majority of people. Regardless of what you think you are not better than anyone else, but remember no one else is better than you either.

Corvette Guy · Nov 23, 2005

...Yes, I am a scrub. Now before you make any assumption on me. I will let you know that I went to college for 4 years and got my degrees in music marketing and computer programming. I chose to continue my education after I graduated because I didn't want to spend the rest of my life doing something I didn't have my heart set into.
Scrubs running a surgery center.
If they have a business degree. Guess what that takes precidence over your nursing degree. Also experience says a whole lot more than a piece of paper. I've worked in many situations where a procedure isn't going so well, and a doc. has asked my opinion on any techinical ideas that might work. Many times they have used my ideas, and guess what they have worked. I didn't demand they do it my way. They just asked for a suggestion and gave it a shot. They asked me cause this is my job and what I have experience in.

Scrubs running a surgery center... huh? Name an OR Suite with a Mgr., or Director that is a CST, and not a BSN, or MSN. Nope, a nursing degree will always hold more weight in the OR Suite vs. a business degree, LOL. All OR Suites must abide by AORN standards... not some business standard.

spyder · Nov 24, 2005

Scrubs running a surgery center... huh? Name an OR Suite with a Mgr., or Director that is a CST, and not a BSN, or MSN. Nope, a nursing degree will always hold more weight in the OR Suite vs. a business degree, LOL. All OR Suites must abide by AORN standards... not some business standard.

If you could read. I was replying to someone who stated earlier that there was a scrub running their surgery center. Also if you actually read what I said. It was a scrub running a surgery center. Not a scrub managing an OR suite, or being the perioperative director. The charge nurse at a surger center is not the person running it. It does not require a BSN or a MSN to run a surgery center. It does require those things to be a charge nurse. Also OR suites must obide by JCAHO standards. Not AORN standards. Yes they are pretty much the same thing, but still its JCAHO standards that hospitals run by. AORN cannot shut a facility down. So I'm sorry to tell you this but your wrong, but hey what do I know I'm just a scrub as you so boldly pointed out. :)

smk1, LPN · Nov 24, 2005

Nope CST does not = RN. Why oh why can't adult health care workers act like the PROFESSIONALS that they are? It really is too bad that this sort of turf war and hostility goes on in a facility that people go to for healing...

Corvette Guy · Nov 24, 2005

If you could read. I was replying to someone who stated earlier that there was a scrub running their surgery center. Also if you actually read what I said. It was a scrub running a surgery center. Not a scrub managing an OR suite, or being the perioperative director. The charge nurse at a surger center is not the person running it. It does not require a BSN or a MSN to run a surgery center. It does require those things to be a charge nurse. Also OR suites must obide by JCAHO standards. Not AORN standards. Yes they are pretty much the same thing, but still its JCAHO standards that hospitals run by. AORN cannot shut a facility down. So I'm sorry to tell you this but your wrong, but hey what do I know I'm just a scrub as you so boldly pointed out. :)

Spyder,

I do not appreciate your rudeness. ["If you could read."]

BTW, the OR Mgr, and/or OR Director is the one that runs an OR Suite, not the Board runner of a particular shift. Another thing, you seem to have the idea I have something against CSTs. FYI, I have a Associate of Applied Science in Surgical Technology degree [1995], and worked as a Certified Surgical Technologist from 1995-1998. Since that time I've earned my ADN & BSN. Therefore, since I've been on both sides of the fence my viewpoint does carry a little bit of credibility. However, this does not discredit your thoughts whatsoever. As I've posted in the past, I feel the OR staff must work as a teamd to thrive. Yet, it is the OR RN with the nursing license on the line.

Your most welcomed to your viewpoint, yet please do so without sarcasm.

spyder · Nov 24, 2005

Spyder,
I do not appreciate your rudeness. ["If you could read."]
BTW, the OR Mgr, and/or OR Director is the one that runs an OR Suite, not the Board runner of a particular shift. Another thing, you seem to have the idea I have something against CSTs. FYI, I have a Associate of Applied Science in Surgical Technology degree [1995], and worked as a Certified Surgical Technologist from 1995-1998. Since that time I've earned my ADN & BSN. Therefore, since I've been on both sides of the fence my viewpoint does carry a little bit of credibility. However, this does not discredit your thoughts whatsoever. As I've posted in the past, I feel the OR staff must work as a teamd to thrive. Yet, it is the OR RN with the nursing license on the line.
Your most welcomed to your viewpoint, yet please do so without sarcasm.

Perhaps were just not understanding each other. I am not talking about someone running the OR suite, nor am I talking about someone running the entire operative unit. I have not once mentioned that. I am talking about someone running the entire stand alone surgery center. You know the "Big Boss". Now maybe I misinterpreted the persons thread who commented on a scrub running a surgery center, but I took it as the person in charge over everything. In that scenerio I am correct in my statement.

As for my rudeness. It would be a good idea to go back and read your own thread. Yes I did take it personal when you decided to bold me saying: Yes, I am a scrub. I've had way too many Nurses treat me like I'm an ignorant piece of crap, because I'm not a nurse. I will not put up with that from anyone. I know my job, I know how procedures go. If I have a question about something I will ask someone, but to treat someone like they don't know their head from a hole in the ground is very demeaning. I work agency. I am the ethics and compliance coordinator for my company. So yes I know all the rules of the O.R. Its my job. In many facilities I go to. Nurses more so than doctors treat me like crap. They treat me as if I am below scum. Not all nurses treat me this way. Yes there are a fair amount that do, and I will not put up with this. No I'm not going to do your job, or tell you how to do your job. For one its your job, do it yourself, but also let me do my job and treat me with the same respect you treat anyone else with. So yes when you do something such as pointing out that I am a scrub. Guess what? I am going to comeback with some sort of retort.

So if you have anything else to say about my attitude, then be respectful enough to private message me. I'm not going to have a personal argument with anyone who posts here on the message board. If you have something to say about what I have stated in concerns to the whole scrub/RN thing feel free to post it.

Lonman · Nov 24, 2005

After reading the responses on here I can happily say that I must work in a pretty darn great OR. The respect is there. All the workers treat each other the way we all would like to be treated and noone tries to do someone elses job, disrespectfully. We all DO help each other. Do I circulate? No, not from start to finish and all the tasks involved. I do everything except the paperwork when I am not scrubbed in. That is the job description of the circulating RN.

Thank you Shodobe for the history of the RN in surgery and their role in scrubbing.

Times with economics did make way for the changes that we have come to see. The surgical technologist is formerly trained for their role in the OR? The field has helped meet the needs of hospitals thoughout the years and also the fact that they get professionals that know what there roles are. OJT is not needed for the ST.

The bottom line is that each professional has their respective roles and the ST's already know them and have them defined. This comes from the acreditted training that is recommended for the field. The RN's have them defined by the rules set aside by the hospitals. In the operating arena, the RN is OJT regarding their roles. The ST already has this defined within their training.

Another member here made a good simple point. People have to remember to treat each other like you would like to be treated. Not that hard.

It is so true that adult professionals need not to act like children.

Oh yeah, back to the question, are ST's and RN's equal?? As i see it, only in 1 way---we both want the best care and outcome for our patients.

Happy Thanksgiving!!

~Lonman

SmilingBluEyes · Nov 24, 2005

Moderator Note:

Folks, this is another subject (like BSN versus ADN or LPN versus RN)---- that can get heated up quickly. I ask you kindly keep posts friendly, thinking carefully BEFORE you hit the "post" button and also, please leave generalizations out your posts. Surgical techs are an invaluable part of the OR team, to be sure. No need for us to get territorial or rude in our posts.

One other thing: If you find a post rude or attacking, please abide by Terms of Service and do NOT reply in kind; do report the offending post by clicking the Red Triangle, at the bottom left of each post and report it. Let the moderation/administration have a chance to handle things so it does not get out of hand. If you wish to take arguments by Private Message, that is ok, but again do remember Terms of Service regarding flaming and attacks STILL apply there.

Thanks for understanding!!!!

shodobe · Nov 24, 2005

Lonman, I am not sure if it was a history lesson as much as it is my perception, be it wrong or right. All have a good point and instead of fighting against changes we have no control over we should try to make the best of things. You are right in that we all want what's the best for our patients, the best possible care. Happy Thanksgiving! Mike