If one were to read the Constitution one would realize that the Constitution does not grant anyone freedoms, liberties, or rights. The Constitution only protects freedoms, liberties, and rights from transgressions on part of the government. A right is something that is inherent to the individual, comes from that individual, and is maintained by the individual. You are born with such rights like the right to speak freely, the only thing that can be done to that right is to have it infringed. No one can grant a right to another, only limit or impede the exercise of that right.
Healthcare is a human invention that does not exist in the natural environment. Only through the work of others and through the taking of resources from one party and giving to another does healthcare exist. You cannot force someone to give effort and resources to another and call that a right. In the absence of human intervention the individual would live their lives and succumb to the natural forces which would act upon their bodies.
Do I think we should provide preventative care and basic primary care? Sure. Do I think that we can? Maybe. Do I think that healthcare is a basic human right? Absolutely not.
What always amazes me is that the Canadian who complain about healthcare are the ones who didn't get what they wanted, the minute they wanted it.
I've lived in two very different provinces and never had a problem with getting a blood draw. The lab is usually next door or in the same building as the doctors office. If you live in a small town it's in the same building.
You do realize that our governments pay for those NICU beds down south? That a family member of the child is given a subsidy to live close by?
Waiting to see a peds specialist, well what a shame. Most GPs will treat a child with ADHD. Depending on which province you live in it's your choice if your child sees a GP or goes the Peds route. My children went to the family doctor. When they needed specialist attention, they got it because Peds weren't backed up by people who felt a child with sniffles should be seen by a specialist.
Waiting months for a shoulder xray? Never happened anywhere I've lived. You might wait for an MRI, but if you want to pay for it, it can be done faster.
Yes, there are waits but if a worker is injured on the job they go to the top of the lists. Police, Fire, EMS, the military, any worker injured and followed by Workers Comp get treatment pronto. The government wants you fixed and earning.
What bothers me is an 85yo needing a knee replacement is going to get one before my 45 yo friend because the government is on "fix the seniors" binge. My friend fell down the stairs and wasn't injured at work, it she had been, it would have been sorted out pronto.
It never ceases to amaze me that Americans are so selfish and lack basic concerns about their fellow humans.
Oh, and for what it's worth, our education system is also subsidized by the taxpayers and I'm so glad that people who obtained their education and skills here have the freedom and the choice to travel the world and work in countries where they couldn't have afforded their education. What is annoying that they don't feel any responsiblity to return the favour to the country that gave to them.
Why does the law MAKE me have insurance on my CAR ? Or make me wear seatbelts? Isnt that unconstitutional as well?
Driver's license and auto insurance are required in order to drive. No one if forcing anyone to drive therefore no one is forcing anyone to buy auto insurance. You have a choice. Unlike the yearly fine that the ACA will incur if you don't have health insurance now that the Supreme Court has ruled that it's a tax. The two arguments don't even resemble each other. The law is not forcing you to buy car insurance...but it is forcing anyone over the age of 18 to buy health insurance or secure it in some fashion or be taxed the fine by the IRS. IMO the whole thing is a mess. Rights...I don't believe that health care is a right.
What we've done is turn healthcare it into a law punishable by a fine or imprisonment of both.
I'd like to live in Canada to have that perspective on healthcare. I'd like to experience it for myself so I could make a side by side comparison. As to rights, the only comment I have is that I'm seeing a lot of entitlement among the younger crowd. At first I thought it was an anomaly - but I'm seeing it more and more. Instead of "returning the favor" to the country, I'm seeing more and more demands made.
Just two cents' -- about nothing much really on a boring Friday night.
Forget the Constitution. What does your gut tell you? What's the "right" thing to do? Access to health care, in my view, is less a political issue than a human issue. Would you refuse to treat a patient because they didn't have insurance? There are PLENTY of educated, middle-class people these days --myself included-- who have NO health insurance because it's out of reach; it's unaffordable. *Everyone,* regardless of socioeconomics, should have access to quality health care and education. Access and education equal empowerment.
Aside from having to pay for health care, the American system clearly does not work. Not for those people who need access to health care, or those of you working within the health care system. For those who oppose universal health care, you clearly have not been in a position yet where you required access, and could not afford the service. In any case, after everything I have learned about American politics, I feel very fortunate to live on the other side.
I don't often share this story anymore - it's been so long ago - but it has shaped who I am today.
When I was 24, I was the mom of two little boys. I needed healthcare for them and couldn't get it. My husband couldn't get insurance at his work due to a pre-existing condition. I couldn't get insurance because I stayed at home with my sons. Getting a job was possible for me, but my pay was .50 less per hour than the cost of daycare for two children.
Fast forward two years. I'm a newly single mother with two boys. I'm in school full time, no job prospects still... due to the cost of living. So, I did what I had to do. I got Medicaid, food stamps, and rental assistance while I was in school. I was on it for about two years. I promised myself that the government would be making an investment in me. I haven't been on government assistance since.
I do not know of a perfect answer to the healthcare dilemma. On the one hand, I see some here in America demanding food or housing with little regard for the sacrifice that went into making that possible - and wanting the benefits without contributing even the small things that can mean so much. Then again, I also understand what it is like to do without - to resort to Jack Daniels gargle until I could afford a root canal...
My wish is that we all do the right thing at the right time - in a way that does not enable - but rather - helps each become more self reliant.
Driver's license and auto insurance are required in order to drive. No one if forcing anyone to drive therefore no one is forcing anyone to buy auto insurance. You have a choice. Unlike the yearly fine that the ACA will incur if you don't have health insurance now that the Supreme Court has ruled that it's a tax. The two arguments don't even resemble each other. The law is not forcing you to buy car insurance...but it is forcing anyone over the age of 18 to buy health insurance or secure it in some fashion or be taxed the fine by the IRS. IMO the whole thing is a mess. Rights...I don't believe that health care is a right.
What we've done is turn healthcare it into a law punishable by a fine or imprisonment of both.
I suggest you argue with the five Supreme Court justices who, rather than using auto insurance metaphors, actually consulted the Constitution, precedents, and case law. I invite you to read their opinion and then comment.
I also invite you to see the results of Romney's universal health care in Massachusetts, where practically everyone is now insured, and virtually no child is without coverage. See how many people are being dinged by the mandate. It's a non-issue. In any case, you should thank the Heritage Foundation for coming up with the health insurance mandate in the first place, after which it was a "well, of course!" idea among Republicans.
The problem for your perspective is that health care is a de facto right already. It may not have been true in the "good old days," but now it is considered unacceptable to leave someone to die by the side of the road. They will be brought to an emergency room and they will be treated. Who do you think pays for that? A magic fairy?
People not having health insurance is an expensive burden on our society that no other industrialized nation is saddled with.
It never ceases to amaze me that Americans are so selfish and lack basic concerns about their fellow humans.
I met a Canadian student a while ago who explained it thus: "Americans focus on 'me.' Canadians focus on 'we.' " Ironic given our great religiosity here, eh?
Rivernurse's post is why no matter how many people take advantage of the system, we still need A system., while a difficult journey, it is inspiring. thank you for sharing
A human right is whatever we decide it should be (as time passes -- subject to change).
As humans we can make of the world what ever we want as evidenced by the many varied definitions on human rights, law, religion, etc.
True, but if you want others to pay for it who don't agree, it becomes a different story.
mc3:nurse:
No, it really doesn't. We have agreed for a long time that children have a right to education. It's not free. Now, likewise for health care.
What you are not considering is what I said above:
The problem for your perspective is that health care is a de facto right already. It may not have been true in the "good old days," but now it is considered unacceptable to leave someone to die by the side of the road. They will be brought to an emergency room and they will be treated. Who do you think pays for that? A magic fairy?
People not having health insurance is an expensive burden on our society that no other industrialized nation is saddled with.
In fairness to those who oppose universal health care, I suppose it's very challenging to come to terms with anything other than your current health care system. This makes sense, since as a Canadian who enjoys universal health care, I cannot imagine things differently, either. We know what we live. I remember as a young kid thinking, "Doesn't everyone have a health card?" If I need to see a doctor, or go to the hospital, I show my government issued card. And, for sure, there will always be people who abuse the system. There is no denying that. However, no matter what system is in place, someone will always find a way around it.
In fairness to those who oppose universal health care, I suppose it's very challenging to come to terms with anything other than your current health care system.
I've spoken to people from other countries, I've traveled, I've read up on the subject, I took a class on Medicare/Medicaid/AHA (after the legislation was finalized, but a bit before it was signed into law), I saw a physician in another country, and I learned of Americans' experiences receiving emergency care in Europe (most of my overseas experience is in France).
I also had a very long talk with a woman who was originally from Denmark, became an MD, and then lived in and worked in France for a long time working for a pharmaceutical company (as a rep, I think). She knew in great detail which countries had expertise in which diseases, etc. (apparently Paris offers great hospitals for the treatment of cancer).
What I concluded is that most Americans are utterly clueless about much of any cultural or governmental aspect of any other nation. They hear propagandistic horror stories of health care in Canada or Britain (some of which are true, but are exceptional; most of which are greatly exaggerated or complete nonsense), and they believe them, because they comport with their political prejudices.
The bottom line is that both Britain and Canada have less expensive (per capita) health care, with better outcomes, than the U.S. That doesn't mean that either system is ideal, or that, for instance, we can't have more MRI machines per capita than Alberta has. America-is-perfect-in-every-way folks create the false dichotomy that our choice is either what we had in 2010 or Britain's system. It's ridiculous.
We can take the best aspect from other systems, create our own features, and synthesize it into something even better. Frankly, I'd take France's imperfect system over ours in a heartbeat, if that was the only other choice. But it's not the only other choice.
Keeping what we had would either bankrupt us, or it would make health care inaccessible for half or more of the population. (As it is, a large fraction of the population is uninsured.)
Universal health care is a moral issue. Whether it can be argued as a "right" in a court by a consitutional lawyer is neither here nor there.
To deny care to the poor and the sick is immoral. This morality has been established in the Western tradition at least since Aristotle, and in Western, Eastern and most other major religions of the world, too. Certainly, the duty to care for the poor and the sick is a strong tenet of Christianity, though some of the most ardent Christians still deny it.
It is also supported by our ethics, if you recall your ethics courses from nursing school.
I do admire your scholarly argument, but just can't agree! I'm sure there will be a lively debate on this topic both here and throughout the country in the coming months.
Fiona59
8,343 Posts
What always amazes me is that the Canadian who complain about healthcare are the ones who didn't get what they wanted, the minute they wanted it.
I've lived in two very different provinces and never had a problem with getting a blood draw. The lab is usually next door or in the same building as the doctors office. If you live in a small town it's in the same building.
You do realize that our governments pay for those NICU beds down south? That a family member of the child is given a subsidy to live close by?
Waiting to see a peds specialist, well what a shame. Most GPs will treat a child with ADHD. Depending on which province you live in it's your choice if your child sees a GP or goes the Peds route. My children went to the family doctor. When they needed specialist attention, they got it because Peds weren't backed up by people who felt a child with sniffles should be seen by a specialist.
Waiting months for a shoulder xray? Never happened anywhere I've lived. You might wait for an MRI, but if you want to pay for it, it can be done faster.
Yes, there are waits but if a worker is injured on the job they go to the top of the lists. Police, Fire, EMS, the military, any worker injured and followed by Workers Comp get treatment pronto. The government wants you fixed and earning.
What bothers me is an 85yo needing a knee replacement is going to get one before my 45 yo friend because the government is on "fix the seniors" binge. My friend fell down the stairs and wasn't injured at work, it she had been, it would have been sorted out pronto.
It never ceases to amaze me that Americans are so selfish and lack basic concerns about their fellow humans.
Oh, and for what it's worth, our education system is also subsidized by the taxpayers and I'm so glad that people who obtained their education and skills here have the freedom and the choice to travel the world and work in countries where they couldn't have afforded their education. What is annoying that they don't feel any responsiblity to return the favour to the country that gave to them.