Nursing & Depression - page 30
While visiting in the lounge one day, we discovered that every nurse there was on an anti-depressant. I have had 'Treatment Resistant Depression' for about 20 years--as long as I've been a nurse. ... Read More
Nov 19, '02Joined: Jan '02; Posts: 5,673; Likes: 159Sphynx I can't help but wonder about the oral yeast...it may be a symptom of systemic yeast overgrowth and a GI tract that is out of balance.
Just another thing to consider as I think I shared with you I had this problem and in treating it I began to feel better. Have you considered consulting a holistic practitioner who understands toxicities, liver dysfunction, and imbalance of normal flora and sustances in the body? When someone is run down and depressed antibiotics can really throw our bodies out of whack even worse...and the muliple drugs they give us in surgery (I had Vanco) don't help a toxic, out of sync body system either...
Please vent...we all need to for awhile...I found that when I was really down in the pit, I could choose to completely 'feel' my feelings and become overwhelmed and even immobilized. After a short time doing this to clarify how badly I felt, I found I needed to move OUT of that place. I could choose to move forward in my thinking...find a positive to dwell on...search for a comfort somewhere... and begin to 'move towards' thinking about and actively GETTING well...I think this is what Youda was getting at.
This is not a judgment or a guilt trip just a suggestion from someone who was there...and in sharing this I am hoping it may help you and others who are depressed.
I personally found a lot of positives in reading the scriptures and in light self help books like "Each Day a New Beginning" by the Hazelton Group ( recovery affirmations helped lead me from depression) Also "Meditations for Women Who Do Too Much" by Anne Wilson Schaef.
A concept I also found helpful was 'What I'm doing ain't working for me...so get busy...let's find out what DOES work'...the action itself was healing...(even if it was the WRONG action I felt somewhat energized) LOL!
Best wishes as always that your (and everyone here) depression begins to lift soon ...prayers for healing are sent your way.
(((HUGS))) All!!! :kissLast edit by mattsmom81 on Nov 19, '02
Nov 19, '02Joined: Sep '02; Posts: 672; Likes: 29Hi Mattsmom....actually, the systemic yeast thing did cross my mind. I spent a little bit of time (before I pooped out) on line looking up info.......some things do match, but it seemed to be one of those vague things, where a lot of the symptoms of he system yeast "syndrome, or whatever whomever chooses to call it, could fit many other diagnoses as well. What made things difficult, is that I did a google search, and didn't run across many research based articles, so it was difficult to know how legit the information was. Now I'm not saying I have totally given up.....but I did give the search after a brief time, because I was tired, and depressed, and needed a break, Also, as far as antibiotics go, I haven't had any since directly previous to my last surgery in May. I do not believe they gave me any this time......you know how they usually hang a bag pre-op, well all I had was IVF, no abx. I also had none afterwards. They may have given me some while I was under I suppose, but it would seem like a pesky thing to have to do, that could have easily been done when I was hanging out in the holding area for an hour and a half. On the other hand, Prior to May, while I never had oral thrush, I was prone to vaginal yeast infection, namely related to the birth control I was on. I had been on continuous birth control pills (with a break every 4 months or so) to control bleeding and severe pelvic pain. Now, I had problems, and tended to bleed straight through the month anyway, so I had my pill changed in ever increasing amounts, till I had tried 5 different types in all over a period of a couple years. By #5, I was yeast infection queen. The OTC stuff didn't work for me at all, only the diflucan. That, and other side effects influenced my decision to have a hyst back in May, because despite the side effects, even on the higher dose, I started the bleeding again, even after taking a break, trying all the tricks, etc. Anyway, I kept an ovary......for a week or 2 it was sound aslepp, I had all the nice menopausal symptoms, now I have my normal hormones back, whoopee, haha....as you can see, I still babble.
In terms of keeping myself busy, I am trying to be more active, knowing I'll be back at work next week, but I am still tried a lot. I found I was having a hard time with being on-line, would get sucked in, and would spend all day online. So my husband said, so get a game (a game I had for my PC and liked, but didn't have for my mac), so while I am still on the computer, my online time is cut, and it is easier to stop the game and be normal, than to stop other stuff, for whatever reason.
I've never read the books you mention, although I do have quite the library of self help books, haha! I'll have to look up the titles you mentioned.
I have an appointment with my psychaitrist this morning. I only hope I can explain everything about how I've been feeling recently. I have a hard time communicating with him. We walk in the room, and he just sits there and stares at me. It is very unnerving. Oh well, I will give it my best. I know I need to get back into therapy, but had been waiting to see if I could get into a new job first, so I can figure what hours I'd be available etc. But it doesn't look like that's gonna happen, so I suppose that'll be somthing I'll need to do soon, as well. I know my psychiatrist will push for a DBT group again, but the problem is, being a CHN, if I get stuck at a pt home, like if the pt is having a problem and I have to call the doc, or if I get called out to see someone, or whatever.....then I may be late...and they don't allow lateness at all. I was in a regular women's group, and they were more lenient, but I had some problems with the therapist.....anyway, gotta run or I'll be late..
Thanks for listening!
Nov 19, '02Joined: Oct '02; Posts: 13I agree with most of the comments in this thread. Nurses are natural, (or they should be!) caregivers, and one thing I have noticed is the incidence of co-dependency in nursing.
Having suffered from this disorder myself, I can understand why many nurses are depressed and seeking antidepressants to ease the pain of the disease. Co-dependency is a disease of over caring and having to solve EVERYONE else's problems singlehandedly. From this, comes the fallacy that you know how to do just about everything, even if you don't, and that you can find an answer for anyone who asks a question.
Giving unsolicited advice is also a major symptom of the disease. Does that sound familiar to any of you?
I think the first step to deal with feelings of depression is to identify that it exists. From there, I believe that you have to find the personal cause and try to work on that verses just covering it up with medications. The antidepressants may work to give teh energy to do the other work, but I don't believe that they are the solution to the problem.
Nov 19, '02Joined: Jan '02; Posts: 5,673; Likes: 159"Giving unsolicited advice is also a major symptom of the disease. Does that sound familiar to any of you? "
Well at the risk of being called a bytch, we ARE ALL sharing here...and this is quite a rude comment to make, IMHO. And if this was directed at ME...well this IS a thread about nurses with depression and I have been there....just telling my story.
I guess I will refrain from further posting here since it has been suggested our sharing may be 'unsolicited advice'. Anyone wishing to correspond with me may PM me, as always.
Nov 19, '02Joined: Nov '00; Posts: 931; Likes: 18I think Sunnybrook's comment about unsolicited advice was a characteristic, as she saw it, of co-dependent behavior, not depression (although a person can certainly be co-dependent and also be depressed, but one doesn't necessarily assume the other).
Every day that goes by researchers are finding that depression is not a "mental disease" but a physical disease no different from diabetes caused by chemical imbalances. Codependence, on the other hand, is a behavioral pattern that has, at least so far, not been known to have its roots in any physical cause.
As far as giving or taking unsolicited advice at allnurses, I don't see it as unsolicited advice. When someone shares their story or asks for advice, they are likely to get it here, including some not-so-comfortable responses. As soon as someone posts something, it is understood that they are going to get feedback or dialogue of some kind. A person can never grow or learn unless they get out of the isolation of their own thoughts and get some new viewpoints and perspectives, new ideas.Last edit by Youda on Nov 19, '02
Nov 19, '02Joined: Sep '02; Posts: 672; Likes: 29mattsmom, I hope you will not refrain from posting.....I can see where you may be upset by Sunnybrooke comment, but consider perhaps she didn't mean it the way it came across to you. I'm not her, so I can't say what her thought process was/is, but don't go on account of that.
Now, an update. As I mentioned, I had an appointment with my psychiatrist this morning. I left with plenty of time to get there, as I am a big worrier, to where I set all my clocks fast, so I won't be late. Well, I got on the express way near my house and ran into the traffic jam from hell. I sat there an hour before being made to turn around (3 rows of traffic turning around into 1 lane) and getting off a closed on ramp. By this time I was going backwwards, knew without the expressway it would take quite a bit longer to get there, so I called the office to make sure they'd see me (I recalled they have a "15 minute" policy), and of course, he could not/would not, as he was leaving earlier. I was sitting in my car, parked, sobbing over my cell phone saying I really needed to see him and all she could give me was 12/2. I asked to please at least have him call me. When I got home, they called and can get me in Friday. Of course I had to reschedule my son's therapy which I'd already scheduled because of my surgery last week as well, but that was no problem. So...hopefully Frdai will be better.
Lest anyone think I am avoid my doctor by changing my appointment last week post-op, and then this, I've included a link to the news story. I was very self centered and upset until I found out the accident was fatal, then I felt like a real s*** for even letting it bother me.
bye, ya all have a good night
Nov 19, '02Joined: Nov '00; Posts: 931; Likes: 18One thing about getting older is that you start to get an incredible amount of patience that would have been impossible in your teens, twenties, thirties . . .
I no longer expect to feel better "today" or this week, maybe not even next month or this year. A missed appointment, in the grand scheme of things, means nothing. The only thing that matters is if you keep trying. Because, us depressives, we all know what happens when you stop trying . . . So, hang in there, sphinx.
And, MattsMom, you get your butt back here!
Nov 19, '02Joined: Sep '02; Posts: 672; Likes: 29Thanks Youda.......well, I'll be 35 next year, but was hoping to stay 34, so I guess I may never get that patience, lol. Let me tell you, I felt so bad about that appointment, wishing I'd never had the surgery even so that I didn't reschedule to begin with. I was sitting there in my car with leaking eyes, hoping no one was bothering to look in my window. When they turned usa round, I was thinking it must have been an overturned chemical truck or something, and felt so bad when I heard someone died, like here I am bawling about a missed apointment,, but this iinocent person was kiiled for God's sake!! I mean, just driving along and wham, life is over! Well, I am glad he is willing to get me in this week, because I just can't wait till week after next....things have been too bad for that, recently. And rescheduling for my son was no problem either, I can ge him in Thusday at 9, will just have to bring him late to school, which I'm sure won't bother him anyway, haha. My other son is the one giving us such a hard time these days, and am wondering if perhaps I should see if Vince's therapist can take on another patient! His older brother, he will be 14 in January.......he failed 6th grade and so took it again last year, and is now in 7th. He did great last year, but is up the the same old crap again this year: He's smart, but doesn't work....specifically homework. We came up with several strategies last year that worked very well, but he's found ways around them, to where he can lie and tell us he did homework, when he didn't. (I'd explain our system and where it is failing, but it's a long story). We've tried several things to get him back, but not having much luck. He had a 65 and a 63 on 2 majjor classes, 80's in the other 2. He got a whopping 23 in home and careers. I have been so upset about all this, thank goodness my husband is a voice of sanity! (usually, haha)
Anyway, I best be off........time to swish and swallow (ack).
Nov 20, '02Occupation: RN Joined: Sep '02; Posts: 12I just discovered this thread this week and am really happy to see it ( Ok I don't come here real often) Just have to share some of my story. I think I have probably had clinical depression in some form or another since childhood, definitely had my first full blown depressive episode at age 16. Long family history that I never even knew about. An aunt hospitalized and treated with ECT back in the 40s. A schizophrenic uncle. An agoraphopic grandmother. My family moved acress the country when I was young and there wasn't a lot of contact with relatives, so my folks never told me all this until after I was diagnosed at age 39, while going through a divorce and being too close to the edge of wanting to commit suicide.
I think the nursing profession with it's stress and 12 hour night shifts were definite contributors to my depression and divorce.
I have learned the hard way NEVER to tell anyone I work with about my psychiatric history, diagnosis, or meds. the stigma is still intense, especially in the critical care areas and trying to educate people unfortunatley is next to impossible when their mind is already made up. Depression is one of those things that cannot be understood by someone who hasn't experienced it.
I had an incident at a former job where I was falsely accused of something by one of the MDs and the nurse mananger decided it was more important to massage his *&% ego than support her nurse. He claimed he never gave a verbal order at 2am and I was accused of practicing medicine without a license. I was furious when she suspended me without pay, went to a grievance who sided with the manager and the doctor because they were all in the same administrative pool. It hit me at a bad time during one of my mood downswings so I asked my doctor to put me on disability for a while to work some things out and cool off. Well as soon as they found out I was seeing a psychiatrist I was fired. I seriously considerd taking legal action against them but just didn't have the emotional strength to go through with it at that point.
So if anyone out there is under the impression that administration will be supportive and understanding you can just forget it! Mood disorders are something they do not want to have to deal with, and the legal fight to get your rights re-instated can take years and how do you pay the bills in the meantime? Not to mention that I would never want to work in that toxic of an environment again anyway.
So now I am even more careful about who knows and employers DO NOT need to know what meds I am on, It is none of their busines as long as I am able to perform my job responsibilities safely.
After surviving (barely) that incicdent I decided to try the travel nursing thing and so far I am loving it and loving life again more than I have in years, but I am not about to risk stopping my meds and I keep the phone numbers of my therapist and friends back home handy for emergencies, even though I haven't had any.
Thanking God I live in a time when these meds are available and not having to go through what my relatives in the 40s and 50s went through wth their psych problems, but also very aware of the stigma that still remains.
Nov 20, '02Joined: Nov '00; Posts: 931; Likes: 18karenkidrn, welcome to this wierd group!
just out of curiosity, would you say you had a long line of problems similar to the one you described at work? maybe not as serious, but that made you feel that way?
i'm convinced that when they get around to mapping out every little thing about the human dna, they're going to find exactly what makes us susceptible to depression. i have an old merck manual that i bought when i first started nursing some 28 years ago. back then, the two diagnoses for depressions were either "depressive neurosis" or "psychotic depression." of course if you were a women, you got "involutional melancholia" which and i quote "the patient will often have exhibited such traits as intolerance, stubbornness, oversensitivity, avoidance of pleasure, worrying, apprehension and insecurity." betcha a women didn't write that!
is it any wonder that depression still carries this stigma when a mere 30 years ago "melancholia" could stick you in the state psych house for some male interpreted "avoidance of pleasure?" what is so sad is that the medical profession, of all people, should get some continuing education! i can forgive anyone if they don't keep up on topics outside their area of practice. but, to be 30 years behind? and these stigmas still perpetuated in nursing schools?
yeah, i'm with you, karen. i'll keep my business, my business.
Nov 20, '02Joined: Sep '02; Posts: 672; Likes: 29Karen,
I do understand......while it's become clear to my current boss that I have been depressed lately, she believes it is related to my recent hyst (she doesn't know I still have an ovary)......I have done everything in my power to keep my pysch history a secret! That is one reason it is hard getting a therapist, as I am unwilling to ask my boss "can I get off an hour, every 2 weeks" (or whatever) because that would likely require an explanation......a regular MD visit once in a while is one thing, but on going therapy visits are harder. I had a therapist and a group therapy for a while......as a CHN, supposedly you have flexibility to "work around" appointments and such, but as my work load grew and I became busier and busier, I could rarely get to group or appointments. As it was, I had problems relating to my therapist, so it turned out ok, but it remains difficult finding another, as I don't know what I can commit to! I'd hoped to be in a diffferent work situation by now, but it's not likely at this point....so!
Anyway, yes stigma is real. I always used to think "oh, this is nursing, a fellow nurse ie. nurse manager-should understand....well, somewhere in this post I probably recounted the story in more detail so I'll make it brief.....I was fired from one job, and I feel it was directly related to my depression, and I did not have the mental (or physical!) energy to fight it, and just gave up........and my next job, while my boss was understanding, stating she'd experienced too, I felt it negatively impacted me in that I was passed by to be cross trained....anyway, welcome........
Nov 20, '02Joined: Oct '02; Posts: 13When I said that giving unsolicited advice is a symptom of co-dependency, I was NOT referring to any one in particular. I'm sorry if that comment offended anyone. That was not my intention.
I mentioned that I suffer from this disease and I have given advice when I probably should not. Seems as if I've done it again. I am truly sorry if I offended you. I was just trying to share some insight as I have learned it.
Nov 20, '02Joined: Sep '02; Posts: 672; Likes: 29Sunnybrook,
I don't see where you've given any advice (at least not here) that you shouldn't have. I don't know how long you've been on the internet, but it is quite common in all settings (b. boards, e-groups, e-mail) for someone's words to get misunderstood. After all, all we have is words on a screen......we can't hear the infelections in your voice or see the expression on your face or your body language....all things that we would normally use to clue us in to what you really mean. On the other head, I find the internet to be a medium that sets me free, to say things I never would in real life. I am very shy in real life, and would never have the guts to talk to anybody like I do here, or on other places I post to.
BTW.....I know all too well about codependency, unfortunatly........so, I do know where you are coming from. I do, I do.