Health Care is a right

allnurses Guide · Oct 26, 2009

What amazes me is to see that one has to be either rich or extremely smart to be able to go to the best colleges. If you have an average IQ on top of being poor... too bad. It also amazes me to see how many people in the US have to make a choice between feeding their family or receive proper health care...
THAT is truly amazing!

I agree with Silent Mind :up:

As to "best colleges" . . . . by whose standards?

You do not have to go to an Ivy League super expensive school to get a very good education.

I'm a huge fan of community colleges for general ed. Then move on to a state college for a specialty.

steph

Onekidneynurse · Oct 26, 2009

What can't they get through gov't run programs?
Bypass surgery, preventative checkups, wound care, pacemaker... I'm pretty sure those are included.
If you want to take out a private plan to pay for your son's circumcision, a private hospital room, contact lenses, or by pass lines for imaging tests I have no problem with that. At least you're given a choice.
If it comes down to the Haves vs. the Have Not's, let the Have Not's have something.

That's the other issue. In most universal healthcare countries private insurance was NOT a choice. They had to fight for that right. Why do you suppose Obama keeps re-interating that if you like your policy you can keep it. Because other countries made the mistake of not keeping private insurance.

That's just it. They don't get good care in the county hospitals. They don't get the quality care they want in a county hospital. How many people ask to go to Cook County in Chicago?

Also, most of the universal health care programs are severely in the red. Bankrupt.

And the programs our government are offering are gonna be one's we have to buy or be fined. Just like car insurance. You will buy a policy with basic care. If you want better care you will pay more. Not much different from what we have.

The solution is to stop pre existing conditions requirements and that you can't be dropped when you get real sick. About 5 pages of legislation.

All of the things you mention an American can get today if they want it.

Onekidneynurse · Oct 26, 2009

I agree with Silent Mind
As to "best colleges" . . . . by whose standards?
You do not have to go to an Ivy League super expensive school to get a very good education.
I'm a huge fan of community colleges for general ed. Then move on to a state college for a specialty.
steph

Plumbers in my neck of the woods make $95/hr. No college needed.

BahoRN · Oct 26, 2009

I do have to disagree with your last statement. Sometimes it's a matter of need and not want, and sometimes that need will mean loosing your shirt.

GCTMT · Oct 26, 2009

i'm thinking that if you think healthcare is a right than you think food and shelter are too? or do you? and i don't mean a makeshift soup kitchen or a once a night shelter that you have to leave every morning.

yes. every american should have access to food and shelter. those who cannot attain these things on their own because of circumstances beyond their control should be helped financially from the tax-payers.

there you go, a straight-forward answer.

i've notice that you haven't actually addressed the op or the questions i asked. so, do you think health care is a right, or not?

have you checked your 401k or 403b retirement vehicles? i hope you aren't stupid enough to have any insurance stocks in your portfolio. it's not the insurance companies causing the problem. they don't set the price. it's big pharma, medical devices, hospitals. etc. put the blame where it belongs.
with a government run program do you believe that big pharma, medical device companies and hospitals are gonna lower their prices.
did you see 60 minutes tonight. over 60 billion in fraud against medicare. we can't even run medicare efficiently and you want the government to take on an even bigger program?

why the personal questions to other members? are you so sure that bahorn has a 401k or 403b?

insurance companies are indeed part of the problem. with a government run plan we could negotiate for better drug prices and control costs.

as to your last paragraph, i've read this question so many times my eyes are on the brink of bleeding. i will answer the question. yes, i want a single-payer plan.

why do you think it is that the people of every other industrial nation on the planet wouldn't trade their health systems for ours? their systems might have problems, but they are scared to death (and rightfully so) of a system that lets private for-profit insurances deny people health services in the interest of profit.

your last paragraph is rather funny. most of the universal care countries i.e. france and the uk buy private insurance policies to get what they can't get through their government run programs.

the role of private insurance in the countries you mentioned is either extremely limited, heavily regulated or both.

it amazes me, the things people think they're entitled to.

yeah, it's just amazing how amazed everyone is regarding this health care debate.

i'm more amazed at the priorities we have here in the us compared to other developed nations. we spend more on defense than almost all other nations combined, yet we can't figure out (or presumably don't care) how to make sure that everyone has decent access to health care without going broke and losing everything they've ever worked for.

allnurses Guide · Oct 26, 2009

Plumbers in my neck of the woods make $95/hr. No college needed.

That is great! I mentioned that I agreed with Silent Mind's post . . . and part of that is "no college needed" in some cases :up:

steph

GCTMT · Oct 26, 2009

Plumbers in my neck of the woods make $95/hr. No college needed.

Well, there you go. Everyone who is struggling just needs to move to your neck of the woods and become a plumber. Heck, you should e-mail the President and tell him this. You've just written our domestic policy.

SilentMind · Oct 26, 2009

Well, there you go. Everyone who is struggling just needs to move to your neck of the woods and become a plumber. Heck, you should e-mail the President and tell him this. You've just written our domestic policy.

Congratulations on missing the point entirely.

allnurses Guide · Oct 26, 2009

Well, there you go. Everyone who is struggling just needs to move to your neck of the woods and become a plumber. Heck, you should e-mail the President and tell him this. You've just written our domestic policy.

I think that was strictly in relation to college, . . . not domestic policy.

"What amazes me is to see that one has to be either rich or extremely smart to be able to go to the best colleges. If you have an average IQ on top of being poor... too bad."

steph

BahoRN · Oct 26, 2009

Well, there you go. Everyone who is struggling just needs to move to your neck of the woods and become a plumber. Heck, you should e-mail the President and tell him this. You've just written our domestic policy.

LMAO!!!

GCTMT · Oct 26, 2009

Congratulations on missing the point entirely.

I was being a smart-ass, apologies.

I got the point. And agree that college isn't for everyone.

But, that doesn't solve the underlying problems that most people with just a high school diploma face when they enter the real world.

What about the folks who serve our dinners, work at our department stores, work at our gas stations, movie stores, grocery stores and all the employment opportunities that make up the service sector?

I agree that not everyone is smart enough to go to school and get an education that's going to make them a decent living. But, they have needs and it's morally irresponsible to ignore that. The free market can't solve everything. In fact it's been on a down-ward slope for awhile now.

SilentMind · Oct 26, 2009

I was being a smart-ass, apologies.
I got the point. And agree that college isn't for everyone.
But, that doesn't solve the underlying problems that most people with just a high school diploma face when they enter the real world.
What about the folks who serve our dinners, work at our department stores, work at our gas stations, movie stores, grocery stores and all the employment opportunities that make up the service sector?
I agree that not everyone is smart enough to go to school and get an education that's going to make them a decent living. But, they have needs and it's morally irresponsible to ignore that. The free market can't solve everything. In fact it's been on a down-ward slope for awhile now.

I dont want to go too in-depth on this, because it's off the main topic. I believe my earlier suggestions dealt with the underlying problems, in the sense that traditional college-oriented high school diplomas would be replaced in many cases with vocational certificates, where as specific job training would make up a large portion of high school cirriculum for those who choose to go down that path.

As far as the service sector...well, thats where I currently reside to put myself through school. I doubt there'll ever be any shortage of unskilled labor, whether its a temporary position in order to ultimately get ahead, or a permanent life plan. And even without a college degree, a solid work ethic is more then enough to provide for a simple lifestyle. I fail to see how this ties into the free market or how it's been sloping downward.