Health Care is a right

Onekidneynurse · Oct 25, 2009

For people with pre existing conditions, food and shelter are far easier and cheaper to obtain, than health care. JMHO and my NY $0.02.
Lindarn, Rn, BSN, CCRN
Spokane, Washington

Walk in clinic charge around $40 and meds are either given free or cheap at Wally World. $10.

K98 · Oct 25, 2009

Lack of funding has wrecked public education, K98, which is why public education in the richest communities is among the best in the world, and why people like yourself use the poorest and most underfunded schools to illustrate a generalization.

Ask a student from on of the best-funded schools who the speaker of the house is. Ask them to find South Carolina on a map. Public education in affluent communities means nothing more than better paid teachers.

travleur · Oct 25, 2009

i would do a poll on this, but i do not know how to - or maybe you need to be a premium member. at any rate, i would like to hear some discussion on whether you feel health care is a right or not. i personally do.

health care should definitely be a right, just like education should be (even after high school.)

anyone who experienced healthcare outside the us know better and would agree.

americans have the most expensive health care and yet score really badly when it comes to mortality rate at birth, life expectancy, cancer survival rate etc etc. just check who stats. health care can not be a profitable industry.

hundreds of countries have excellent health care for a fraction of what american pay for. look at some very good examples: sweden, france, germany, japan just to name a few. if it works for other countries why not in the us? i am confident that there are enough smart people in the us to come up with a system that would work for everyone. the only problem is that in the us, insurance companies manage to become extremely powerful by sucking americans' money, so powerful now that they have huge assets to remain in that position and to make american believe that it should stay that way.

please take time to watch this excellent interview (link below) ...there is 1 person who can really tell you about how health insurance industry do everything they can in order to keep their disgusting profit, this person is wendell porter, former head of public relations for cigna, one of the nation's largest insurers. an excellent interview that all americans should watch!!

http://www.pbs.org/moyers/journal/07102009/watch2.html

GCTMT · Oct 25, 2009

I believe you need food and shelter for good health care to work. What good is healthcare without food and shelter?

That's an excellent point. I think we do a reasonable job in the US to ensure that everyone has a place to live and enough food to eat. But, unfortunately some fall through the cracks, so it wouldn't hurt to take a look at the food stamp program and HUD to make sure those most vunerable amongst us have the very basics they need to thrive. Access to food and shelter are moral imperatives in the US.

But, this thread is about whether or not health care is a right in the US. Morally speaking, I believe it is.

I'm assuming, that you do not think it is a moral right. If that is the case, then what do you think it is? Just another commodity to be bought and sold on the market? Or something else?

I'm curious.

BahoRN · Oct 25, 2009

America and Americans are in a very ideal and unique position.

Right now, they can take the best parts of other countries' health care systems and incorporate them into what can become the World's LEADING NATION on HEALTH PROMOTION and HEALTH CARE.

Doesn't that sound nice and wouldn't it make you moral and ethical leaders?

As for the insurance companies, let them try and sell their crap to other countries. I bet you no one would be stupid enough to buy it.

Onekidneynurse · Oct 26, 2009

That's an excellent point. I think we do a reasonable job in the US to ensure that everyone has a place to live and enough food to eat. But, unfortunately some fall through the cracks, so it wouldn't hurt to take a look at the food stamp program and HUD to make sure those most vunerable amongst us have the very basics they need to thrive. Access to food and shelter are moral imperatives in the US.
But, this thread is about whether or not health care is a right in the US. Morally speaking, I believe it is.
I'm assuming, that you do not think it is a moral right. If that is the case, then what do you think it is? Just another commodity to be bought and sold on the market? Or something else?
I'm curious.

I'm thinking that if you think healthcare is a right than you think food and shelter are too? Or do you? And I don't mean a makeshift soup kitchen or a once a night shelter that you have to leave every morning.

Onekidneynurse · Oct 26, 2009

America and Americans are in a very ideal and unique position.
Right now, they can take the best parts of other countries' health care systems and incorporate them into what can become the World's LEADING NATION on HEALTH PROMOTION and HEALTH CARE.
Doesn't that sound nice and wouldn't it make you moral and ethical leaders?
As for the insurance companies, let them try and sell their crap to other countries. I bet you no one would be stupid enough to buy it.

Have you checked your 401K or 403b retirement vehicles? I hope you aren't stupid enough to have any insurance stocks in your portfolio. It's not the insurance companies causing the problem. They don't set the price. It's big Pharma, medical devices, hospitals. etc. Put the blame where it belongs.

With a government run program do you believe that big Pharma, medical device companies and hospitals are gonna lower their prices.

Did you see 60 Minutes tonight. Over 60 Billion in fraud against Medicare. We can't even run Medicare efficiently and you want the government to take on an even bigger program?

SilentMind · Oct 26, 2009

health care should definitely be a right, just like education should be (even after high school.)

it amazes me, the things people think they're entitled to.

Onekidneynurse · Oct 26, 2009

America and Americans are in a very ideal and unique position.
Right now, they can take the best parts of other countries' health care systems and incorporate them into what can become the World's LEADING NATION on HEALTH PROMOTION and HEALTH CARE.
Doesn't that sound nice and wouldn't it make you moral and ethical leaders?
As for the insurance companies, let them try and sell their crap to other countries. I bet you no one would be stupid enough to buy it.

Your last paragraph is rather funny. Most of the universal care countries i.e. France and the UK buy private insurance policies to get what they can't get through their government run programs.

travleur · Oct 26, 2009

It amazes me, the things people think they're entitled to.

What amazes me is to see that one has to be either rich or extremely smart to be able to go to the best colleges. If you have an average IQ on top of being poor... too bad. It also amazes me to see how many people in the US have to make a choice between feeding their family or receive proper health care...

THAT is truly amazing!

SilentMind · Oct 26, 2009

What amazes me is to see that one has to be either extremely rich or extremely smart to be able to go to the best colleges. If you have an average IQ on top of being poor... too bad. It also amazes me to see how many people in the US have to make a choice between feeding their family or receive proper health care...

Education is a personal responsibility. I've taken an interest in learning and got a damn fine education from a community college at an average cost of under $3000 a year. Which I pay for entirely out of pocket. Besides, I'm sick of this idea that everyone needs to go to college. If you're of average IQ, why on earth would you want to struggle with another 4 years of general education? Not everyone has the mental capacity, and in many cases the desire, to pursue education. I wish high schools would acknowledge this fact rather then putting so much emphasis on college prep classes and start offering in-school vocational programs on a grander scale. Theres a great deal of high school students that would be far better served graduating with training as a mechanic or a plumber then a rudimentary understanding of math and english which will just about qualify them to struggle with remedial college classes that isn't going to take them anywhere. Not everyone gets to be an astronaught.

As for health care, perhaps it wouldn't be nearly as expensive if it wasnt for the fact that

1) People go running for treatment for every little thing thats wrong with them. Just because. Insurance isn't meant to cover cuts and scrapes and the flu any more then auto insurance is meant to cover a chip in the paint. We've become spoiled as a society and don't like to be the least bit uncomfortable for any period of time.

2) Because doctors are required to pay ungodly insurance premiums for malpractice insurance because every tiny little mistake, actual or perceived, leads to multi-million dollar lawsuits.

3) Because the government already has a massive role in the healthcare industry. I forget the actual numbers, but medicare accounts for just under 50% of the healthcare sector, and they only pay physicicans a certain percent on the dollar.

People don't bother to think about the real reasons health care is so expensive. They'd rather pick an easy target to hate, like...the pharmaceutical companies. Which is strange, because you can get generics of 90% of the medications out there for $10 or less.

BahoRN · Oct 26, 2009

Your last paragraph is rather funny. Most of the universal care countries i.e. France and the UK buy private insurance policies to get what they can't get through their government run programs.

What can't they get through gov't run programs?

Bypass surgery, preventative checkups, wound care, pacemaker... I'm pretty sure those are included.

If you want to take out a private plan to pay for your son's circumcision, a private hospital room, contact lenses, or by pass lines for imaging tests I have no problem with that. At least you're given a choice.

If it comes down to the Haves vs. the Have Not's, let the Have Not's have something.