Has ACLS been 'dumbed down'?

I don't know that I would say it has been "dumbed down" but rather "pared down." I never took it back in the day when as many people were failed as possible. I re-took it recently after several years and they have cut out a lot of the algorithms. I think that, in the past, it was pretty complex for most of us, especially those of us who didn't use it on almost a daily basis.

Like CPR, ACLS has changed as they've seen what works and what doesn't seem to make any difference.

The simpler, the better, as far as I'm concerned.

I"ve been an ACLS instructor since '94 and I definitely disagree with the AHA on some points. We remediate anyone who needs it. It's not about passing or failing, so much as making people comfortable with a certain knowledge and skill set. I always though it was ridiculous to fail RNs on an intubation station when they would never be allowed (much less required) to place an ET tube.

Some teaching centers may pass everyone regardless of their performance, but we train RRT, MD, RN, EMT-P and our philosophy is "you work as a team" but if a student is being "hand-held" or appears to be out of their element, we make them go through it until we feel comfortable with their performance.

I don't think it needed to be so rigorous as it used to be. It was just too stressful and there was no point in that.

In code situations I'm not finding that the people performing ACLS are acting dumbed down, but rather doing a rather good job. So it's working for me.

I don't think it needed to be so rigorous as it used to be. It was just too stressful and there was no point in that.

That's pretty much what I was trying to say!

I can remember when experienced ICU and ER nurses would turn pale at the thoughts of taking ACLS.

I have seen ICU and ER nurses who use ACLS skills daily have difficulty with certain parts of the course. It depends on what you do daily, what you were taught, and how the instructor teaches. I see no valid reason for ACLS to cause anyone to pale. This is a "certification" class not a licensing exam. PAssing the class means only that you have fulfilled your hospitals required class to keep working in your unit. The worst part of ACLS is that the doctors I work with rarely follow ANY AHA protocols and are stuck in "what we used to do is what we do now" mode.

So maybe the docs need to take ACLS.

Actually, the one person who I did see fail ACLS was an M.D (but she didn't study!)

I work in an Aussie ICU and our ACLS protocol is relatively simple compared to what it used to be. I agree that this is how it should be-it doesn't matter how many arrests you're involved in-they're always stressful- so I think its important to know first line treatments well, rather than all treatments poorly. I guess we're lucky to have medical coverage 24/7 though.

ACLS used to be an extremely rigorous course in the past. Now, more and more people are getting it and it's practically a walk in the park. I understand the reasoning of it being viewed as a learning experience, but I'm wondering if the standards have become too lax? No one fails anymore.

What do you think, should the standards be tightened up again, or is it fine the way it is?

Maybe people are really paying attention ans studying the materials beofre class.

Like IMO they should be. Basic CPR is just that, basic, but instructors take the time to TEACH, esp newbies.

My first intubation was in an ACLS class, last one up in my group before lunch and I was given so much respect by the instructor and encouragement from the other "experienced". I did it . and I passed.

I need to take this.

I don't know that I would say it has been "dumbed down" but rather "pared down." I never took it back in the day when as many people were failed as possible. I re-took it recently after several years and they have cut out a lot of the algorithms. I think that, in the past, it was pretty complex for most of us, especially those of us who didn't use it on almost a daily basis.

Like CPR, ACLS has changed as they've seen what works and what doesn't seem to make any difference.

The simpler, the better, as far as I'm concerned.

I gree with going with what works today after finding out what wasn't nec. or didn't work in the past. Same as settig up our crach carts with the "ingrediants" are changing all the time.

That's pretty much what I was trying to say!

I can remember when experienced ICU and ER nurses would turn pale at the thoughts of taking ACLS.

I remember the yelling the experienced ICU personnel would do during the mock code. Not orders per se but uncalled for statements. at you as an individual. ( When I wasa Newbie).

When I landed in the cath lab, we were the team, that's for sure. Good Answer.

,It's very interesting and great knowledge, Sues.quatch