Handling Physicians. Any suggestion?

GenXnurse · Oct 16, 2007

I agree with the responses that elude to teaching people how you expect to be treated. First, be firm but fair. If this is an ongoing issue take it to the physician first- tell him/ her how their behavior is unacceptable. Then tell them what the consequences will be if the behavior continues (ie: Written up, take it to the medical director etc.) Try and work it out face to face- BUT most of all REFUSE to be a punching bag for someone else. Please do not let Physicians, Staff, OR patients treat you poorly. We all have bad days, but no one deserves to be verbally abused or made to feel bad. Set firm boundaries NOW. Do not wait. Your longevity in this career depends on you making a stand for yourself. When you set an expectation as to how you want to be treated people very often comply.

In the end- if this physician continues, and your efforts do not curtail his/her behavior (to include write ups/ and management notification) I would notify an attorney as a LAST DITCH effort. A letter from an attorney will grab his attention very quickly. I worked in an ICU for 3 years where we finally go fed up with a cardiovascular surgeon who was outright abusive. As a group we hired and attorney just to do some preliminary investigation as to what our options were. When the surgeon got the letter he was very quick to make ammends. Now- he did have a blow up every now and again (and sometimes justified) But if we ever had a problem from that day forward he would take time to listen to our concerns. Okay long post sorry-- Hang in there! and MAKE SURE TO TAKE CARE OF YOURSELF AS WELL AS YOUR PATIENTS.

jojotoo, RN · Oct 16, 2007

You ain't seen nothing yet. Many physicians are first class buttholes. Once you get experience and confidence, you will be able to stick up for yourself. Just remember that the weaker you act, the more you will be abused.

My personal motto: Never show fear.

Reno1978, BSN, RN · Oct 16, 2007

As a student I put a doc in his place without really knowing he had a history of being rude to the nursing staff. A doctor that I had never seen before was sitting at the nurses' station and in a very loud voice said, "I guess you nurses don't want me to write any new orders if you can't seem to keep the sheets in the chart!" Apparently no new Doctor's Orders sheets were in the chart. Huge crisis, right? So, seeing as he's sitting right next to the drawer that had all the spare sheets in them, I simply said, "That drawer next to you has new ones in it."...not thinking anything of it...just trying to be a helpful student...I said it in a very civil tone of voice. Then, he said, "Do you think it's my job to get new sheets for the chart?" in a very snotty voice...It reminded me of how I used to sound when I was 12 and my mother would ask me to do the dishes. Anyways, I was about 15ft away from him throughout all this with my preceptor, and his tone irritated me and I said, like I was talking to a two year old, "Aww, do you want me to come over there and open the drawer for you?" I think at this point he realized he was acting inappropriately, and he pulled the drawer open, found the order sheets he wanted, put like 5-6 of them in the chart and started writing his orders without saying another word.

My preceptor went to my instructor and praised me saying that it took guts to stand up to him like that...I wasn't really trying to stand up to anyone...I had no history with the guy. I just responded to the way he was acting.

AlmostThere:) · Oct 29, 2007

It is funny to see how each individual responds to a situation. Im trying not to lump all physicians into the "orifice" category!!! It has gotten better and Im beginning to meet some docs who are very nice and considerate :)

AlmostThere:) · Oct 29, 2007

Thank you for the advice. Im still not a practicing RN yet but I think that you are right about starting now!! Practice will make perfect for me...the more I stand up for myself the easier it will get (I hope)!

MA Nurse · Oct 29, 2007

Here's rude for you: I was staying with my 86 yr. old dad at a hospital out of state. Dad was diabetic and all the complications that go with that disease process. In barges an orthopaedic surgeon and says "Foster? (not Mr. Foster, last name only) I'm doctor X and what I do is I take off legs"... He went on with questions, which he would not give Dad a chance to answer and walked out!
I followed him out of the room calling his name. He refused to acknowledge me until I yelled. I said "You are the most arrogant, inappropriate azzole I have ever come across, and trust me, I've come across quite a few as an O.R. nurse manager. In the words of Donald Trump--You're fired!" I saw the nurses at the station put their hands over their mouths and laugh. He looked rather sheepish. I told Dad that particular doc would never be back again but I didn't tell him why. What scares me is that if I weren't there, no one would ever know how he spoke to patients! :angryfire
I am certainly not suggesting you do such a thing. I was not employed at this facility, only a family member. I was irate that Dad was spoken to as if he had no sense because he was elderly. He was, by the way, sharp as a tack!
ebear

I understand why you were so mad. My dad died 2 years ago. He was diabetic and had an amputation. If the Dr. spoke to him like that, I would have yelled, too. One time he had a nurse tell him "This isn't a hotel." I wrote to the hospital and complained after he died. I had to tell them about some of the rude treatment he received.

sleepyndopey · Oct 29, 2007

I agree you have to be firm. You are the patients advocate. I once had a patient in my rehab s/p hip replacement. She had been seen by her surgeon on Wednesday for a f/u appt. and was scheduled to be seen the following Wed. I had the patient on the Sunday in between. The patients surgical site looked awful. Lots and lots of drainage, redness, staples pulling. Pts temp 100.2 I called the surgeon and after about 4 pages he actually called back:madface:. I reported the patients condition and told him I thought he needed to see her as this was a major change from when he saw her on Wednesday. He said, "I just saw her, I'll see her in a few days". I said "no, I think you need to see her today"(he did not like this idea as it would involve him going to hosp ER to see the patient). So he says to me " If I have to go to the hospital and see this patient and there is nothing wrong with her I am not going to be happy":angryfire. And without missing a beat I replied to him, "Well doctor, I can't be concerned with your happiness, I am only concerned for the patients welfare". Long pause on his part. Then he says you know what, I'll come and see her there at the rehab. :eek: This is very unusual, these surgeons NEVER come to the rehab to see the patients. Anyway, he came. I took off my nametag and told all my co-workers to call me by a fake name.:chair: No good. He found me. Ended up he was a nice guy. He told me not to worry about his happiness. I told him I truly want everyone to be happy. I think he liked the fact that I didn't put up with his crap. Anyway, the patient was readmitted to the hospital and I made a new friend. He was kinda cute too!

ebear, BSN, RN · Oct 29, 2007

Kimbalou,

I did indeed write the doctor,the Prez.and CEO,and the Chief Medical Officer about this incident, after his death. It was a very professional letter with dates, times, and quotes. I was very complementary of the nurses, who gave EXCELLENT care and signed it with my title and enclosed a business card (RN., Certified O.R./ Perioperative Nursing, Board Certified Legal Nurse Consultant). I never heard a thing back from any of them--no apology, explaination, or condolences--nothing.

I am so sorry for the loss of your dad and that you went through a similar circumstance. It's hard enough with people who really care, which less having to deal with them on top of it! :angryfire

ebear

NooNieNursie · Oct 29, 2007

One of the first things I observed as a new student nurse was that many physicians are arrogant and rude. Many, also, are not. But it is accurate to say a higher percentage of them will be... and really it's not so hard to understand why, they're "the boss" when it comes to medicine (they give the orders). It's a little cult of ego.

As you get used to being in the hospital environment, you'll stop taking this behavior as a personal insult, because really it says nothing about you... it is more a reflection of their thinking and their issues. WHen it no longer becomes offensive, you'll stop feeling like you need to "defend" yourself... and odds are, your new confidence and professionalism (i.e. not being preoccupied with how they are thinking/treating you) will automatically reduce how often you are the recipient of such behavior.

I've been fortunate not to have experienced much of this, most of the physicians I have interacted with have been very nice and willing to help teach me things about diseases and such... I've actually had a much more difficult time than nurses than physicians (although I have OBSERVED physicians being incredibly rude and disrespectful to other nurses, it hasn't much happened to me directly).

ebear, BSN, RN · Oct 29, 2007

Well, trust me..If you stay in this field any length of time, you WILL encounter this issue!! You will also find that you will cover "the Boss's" *** many a time when he/she screws up an order.

ebear

nyapa, RN · Oct 29, 2007

I had an issue only a couple of days ago. A client came in early afternoon. He was what we call a "direct admission" ie he had not come through ED but through the Outpatients clinic. Mind you, he had gone home from Outpatients, and then come back 24hrs later.

He had an oozing dressing on his shin. The charts did not come to the ward til late from the Medical Records dept. The pm medical officer was unable to admit him due to emergencies elsewhere until just before the end of my shift. In the meantime I had dressed the patient's wound, with a sorbsan/algisite dressing to absorb the secretions.

"God" came on the next morning, and accused me of not reading the notes. "It was recorded here" he indicated, pointing to the Outpatients notes, "and here" pointing to the pm notes by the admitting doctor, "that we requested QID saline dressings! You did not read the notes". Of course I did not read the notes; there was nothing to read!, and tried to explain this to him. I gave up, and went to care for my patients.

I found out that he had said to the charge nurse that he wanted an incident report completed, which she didn't do because where we work, if he wants an incident form, he does it.

The manager of our ward asked what happened. I had documented the issue in my notes. He was good about it, and basically indicated that he would advocate for me. I have heard no more.

I find the doctor's attitude pathetic. I mean really, should I have left it altogether? The original dressing had been a silver based one, by the way, so I couldn't have even estimated from that~!

teeituptom, BSN, RN · Oct 29, 2007

I am not going to generalize and say that all physicians are rude or inconsidereate but there are a few out there who can be mean!!!
For the first time since starting school I had an experience with a rude physician. I had drawn out my patient's meds and was double checking them with my RN. After I double checked them I was standing at the chart box and preparing to go into the room. As I was the physician walked over, grabbed the chart from me and walked away not even saying a word!!! I couldnt believe that someone could be so rude. I have been told that this physician was known for a temper and rudeness. How should I handle this situation if it arises again? I dont want to be rude myself but I dont want to be treated like that either!!

Some reason they never do that to me. Maybe because they realize that if they do that I will run them down, tackle them, and take it back.

Now Ive never done that but I have driven doctors to despair, by telling them of every single little pt problem that I would normally take care of for them. There is one who has irritated me and he is paying the price while I go out of the way to assist the others.