Hi everyone, I am looking for some advice. I am a RN of 6 years, a 2017 graduate. I have worked full time since passing NCLEX in a variety of settings: med/surg, step-down, SNF/rehab, endoscopy/ outpatient surgery, and ER/Trauma. I've been in the ER the last 3.5 years (4 years in May '24).
I recently applied to BSN-DNP programs at Emory University and Vanderbilt University for their Fall 2024 FNP/ ENP programs. I found out Friday I was denied from both schools. I can't help but feel bummed, and feel like I may never get in to grad school after being denied twice... My sister pointed out that Emory is an Ivy Leavgue school, their acceptance rate is 28%, which I was not aware of. I'm not sure what the acceptance rate is for Vanderbilt.
I am going to post my transcripts with my name removed. My GPA is okay, not the best, not the worst. I'm concerned what may be hurting me is that I did fail a course in Fall '22. I had a lot happening in my personal life with my mother being in the ICU for several weeks, then needing short term dialysis, my own mental health, working full time, and the O. Chem course.. something took the back burner, and unfortunately it was the course. I totally dropped off with school, totally forgot about it. When I received my transcript and saw the F, I was so embarrassed. I did submit a statement with my applications explaining the reasoning behind the F.
While I'm sure failing a course doesn't help, realistically, did I aim too high applying to Vanderbilt? I am certain I was not a great candidate for Emory with their 28% acceptance rate. Should I apply to regular MSN programs, and avoid the BSN-DNP programs? I wasn't given any feedback on my applications for grad school, so I don't know what I can do to make myself a more competitive, appealing applicant.
If anyone has any recommendations for FNP/ ENP programs please let me know.
Transcripts: Blue (ADN degree 2017), White Ohio U (RN-BSN 2020), White Owens Comm. College- misc courses.
A lot of students applying to those programs are going to have 4.0 GPAs, outstanding experience, outstanding recommendations, great admissions essays, and excellent interviews. Many will also have a edge due to meeting diversity requirements (either their own background or having a done a lot of work with underprivileged populations, or both). Someone with an F doesn't stand a chance against that type of competition.
I did include in my purpose statement and essays that I am from a disadvantaged background, though I'm not sure how much of an "edge" this gives me. I grew up dirt poor (utilities constantly being shut off, foreclosure notices frequently, food insecurity), being raised by a narcotic RX addicted mother, an abusive father who was in and out of my life. I took on a lot of responsibility in my home, including trying to help raise my siblings because my mother was constantly high on her pills (she didn't work d/t SSDI). As soon as I could drive, I became the full time grocery shopper, transporter of myself/ my siblings, employment to help support our household, etc.
I started taking my college courses as a sophomore in high school to relieve my future self of financial burden as I knew my parents would not be supporting me through college. I graduated HS with 40 college credit hours completed. I am disadvantaged, and this has fueled my dedication to my academia. I made a mistake and I am now paying for it. I plan to rectify the situation and come back stronger. I am bummed, but I'm still determined.
@londonflo Hi there, thank you for your response and taking time to provide some advice. I wanted to thank you first for reminding me I'm not alone. I had a rocky, and somewhat pieced together college experience that began my sophomore year of HS. I began taking courses as a HS student to relieve myself of financial burden down the road. I then went to a community college to obtain my ADN. I am a first gen college grad.
I did contact VUSN admissions to request some advice as to what would make me a more appealing candidate in the future (aside from not failing a course). The advice I received from an admissions advisor was very generic and not at all geared towards me or my application so that was disappointing.
Additionally, I do plan to retake the O. Chem course. From the programs I've looked at and their curriculums, O. Chem is not required. I enrolled in this course to begin completing additional advanced sciences in case I pursued another route. I told another member above, I had an A/B in the course up until my life felt as though it was coming apart at the seams. I just stopped logging on to the course (it was online only). I missed only the final project and exam, which is why my grade dropped substantially. The knowledge/ comprehension of the course was not an issue; I just did not have the forethought to drop the course with still trying to maintain full time work, care for my mom (including handling affairs while she was vented for two weeks, her MWF dialysis once discharged, and aiding in her other needs). I am certainly paying for it and have learned a tough lesson. It's not that I thought I'd be admitted to a good school after failing a course, I truly did not know I failed until I received my transcript. I blocked out a lot from several months at the end of last year d/t the trauma.
I am still waiting to hear about admission to Ohio State University, though I won't know until February.
Thanks again for your time and the advice provided.
Specializes in Psychiatric and Mental Health NP (PMHNP).
emERgency.nurse17 said:
@FullGlass From the moment I saw the F in O. Chem, I had planned on retaking the course. When I say I blocked out this traumatic time, I really mean it, I was in pure survival mode.
I look forward to reading whatever else you may have to share. Thank you again!
Hello,
I am so sorry for your struggles. I totally understand - it is perfectly understandable that your coursework wasn't top priority that that time. Hope you and your mother are doing okay now.
Sounds like you have a good support/advising network, which is great.
From what you have written, you will definitely be a good NP and there is a good school that will accept you. You shouldn't have any trouble getting into a good school once you retake that darn course. Organic chem is the downfall of many would-be nurses and doctors. It was hard for me.
If you have to reapply, apply to more schools, following the advice of my admissions coach friend.
Specializes in Psychiatric and Mental Health NP (PMHNP).
I will say this again and again, because it is something many people do not know: If you get a D or F in a course, and you retake it at the same school and get a grade of C or better, only the higher grade will appear on your transcript. Given that it is highly competitive to get into good BSN, MSN, and dnp programs, retaking course(s) is a relatively easy way to improve your GPA, especially in the very-important science prereqs.
If you get a D or F in a course, and you retake it at the same school and get a grade of C or better, only the higher grade will appear on your transcript.
I specifically mentioned that the OP would need to take it at the same school to change the grade on her transcripts. This is not always possible and to add to the mix not ALL schools will delete the previous grade, only provide both on a transcript. Some schools offering further education will average the grades when calculating the GPA.
I believe in humanistic admissions and know many schools that believe in that too when admitting students into a humanistic profession. You believe in a 'numbers' game admission. I wish someone would conduct a prospective study to see which schools admitting under those guidelines had practicing graduates who stayed in the profession making life long contributions.
Specializes in Psychiatric and Mental Health NP (PMHNP).
My goal in providing advice on this thread is to help the OP and other students with similar situations GET ACCEPTED by an NP Program.
I want to emphasize that when considering applications, especially for graduate studies, schools want to admit people who can perform academically at an acceptable level and graduate. This also protects potential students from wasting their time and money on a program that they will not succeed in. The best way to predict future performance is past performance. Let's take someone like the OP: she did well in her initial undergraduate studies, but failed Organic Chemistry recently. When she initially applied to NP programs without an explanation for this, a reasonable person would see this is not characteristic of her past performance. They might think, "Hmmm, wonder what happened? Is there something going on in this applicant's life now? If so, they are not likely to make it through grad school at this time, unfortunately.” That is why the best course of action is to retake the course, get a decent grade, then reapply and address it in their application essay, as described below.
While it won't hurt to talk to an admissions representative, that alone probably won't help the OP much. An F is an F and it does not look good on one's transcript, especially when applying to schools with extremely competitive admissions. As I have repeatedly pointed out, these schools only admit 3 to 9% of applicants, many with 4.0 GPAs and other outstanding qualifications, so they are not going to admit someone with an F that has not been properly remediated.
The way to deal with the F is to retake the course at the same school. Some schools will then wipe out the original F with the new grade. Other schools will keep the F on the transcript, but will only use the newer, higher grade when calculating GPA.
If the F will continue to remain on the transcript, but the student retook the course and got a good grade, then they can address this in their admissions essay. The OP could say something like: "My original undergraduate performance, graduating Cum Laude, accurately reflects my academic abilities. Wishing to deepen my scientific knowledge, in (time frame), I took Organic Chemistry and failed. This was due to extraordinary personal circumstances; my mother became extremely ill. Due to taking care of her, and the attending extreme stress, I was unable to pass this course. After my mother's recovery, I retook the course and got a grade of (in the OP's case, this will likely be an A or a B). This is consistent with my demonstrated excellent academic performance.” Blah blah or something like that
I agree with "humanistic" admissions, but applicants still have to demonstrate they can perform academically in graduate school. And like it or not, applying to schools is to a certain extent a numbers game. As I have previously pointed out, these schools only admit 3 to 9% of applicants, many with 4.0 GPAs, so they are not going to admit someone with an F that has not been properly remediated. An applicant has to demonstrate they are in this 3 to 9%. Furthermore, going back to humanistic admissions, top tier schools not only have a lot of applicants with a 4.0 GPA, many of those applicants also have impressive personal achievements such as: working for the Peace Corps, military service, working in Critical Shortage Facility hospitals and clinics or other facilities caring for underserved populations, published research articles in peer-reviewed journals, volunteering to help underserved peoples, possessing diversity attributes (race, ethnicity, socioeconomic status, first-generation college student, etc.). Selective schools also want students with different perspectives that will contribute to the intellectual life of the program – this is why they admit some older students, students for whom nursing is a 2nd career, international students, etc.
I want to clarify that I am not pushing the services of admissions coaches. In fact, I am sad that so many people feel compelled to use them, because it isn't fair to those who can't afford such services. But be that as it may, these coaches know a lot about getting into universities, so consider their advice seriously. My friend simply provided some common-sense insight and suggestions.
Here are the Johns Hopkins Nursing School Standards for Academic Progression:
"All students must maintain a GPA of 3.0 and can repeat a course with a failing grade in accordance with the program-specific terms below. Students are not permitted to repeat a course for which they have received a passing grade.
· MSN (Entry into Nursing) students will be required to repeat a course if they earn a grade below a C- (70%). Students can repeat one course one time.
· MSN (Advanced Practice) and DNP students will be required to repeat a course if they earn a grade below a B- (80%). Students can repeat one course one time.
· Ph.D. students will be required to repeat a course if they earn a grade below a B (83%) in core nursing courses and a grade below a C (73%) in non-nursing core courses (biostatistics). Ph.D. students can repeat more than one course one time.”
A 3.0 GPA is the minimum to progress in graduate school. While many undergraduates would be happy with a 3.0 GPA, it is not considered a good GPA in graduate school. This is true of all disciplines, not just nursing.
In conclusion, it costs a lot of time and money to apply to NP programs - $50 per application plus a lot of effort to complete the application. Therefore, it makes sense to maximize one's chances of getting a return on that investment, in other words, do everything possible to maximize one's chances of being accepted by at least one decent school.
Here is a nice guide from Stanford on getting into grad school.
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Specializes in Psychiatric and Mental Health NP (PMHNP).
londonflo said:
I believe actually talking to a representative of a school admission committee/advisor beats an anonymous chatroom advisor who only has their personal experience to fall back on. . YMMV . The OP asked for strategies. Talking to an academic advisor will provide real world 2023-24 year experience and does not cost tuition or a semester's time. If the OP can find out how the school will consider their scholastic record and work history, what is the harm in getting information?
While there is no harm in talking to an admissions rep, it is not likely to yield much beyond basic information. More on that below.
I'm not sure what you mean by academic advisor. An admissions rep is not an academic advisor. An academic advisor is assigned to students in a program.
Admissions reps - they can provide general information. However, as the OP commented, and consistent with my personal experience, they really aren't all the helpful beyond basic info. While some admissions advice suggests applicants visit the campus in person and meet with admissions reps in person, I disagree and here is why: most of us do not have the time and money to do so. I lived near UCLA and took some courses there, so I made an effort to meet with admissions reps. The result? They didn't want to meet in person, discouraged me, and told me to just watch their webinars and read the materials. Given that I lived in California, there is no way I could afford the time and money to fly to Hopkins just to meet with an admissions rep. It didn't matter anyway, as I got into Hopkins and UCLA nursing schools.
I think a better investment of one's time and money is to develop relationships with professors at the school(s) of interest. For example, I took courses at UCLA's Extension programs taught by tenured UCLA professors. Recommendations from them carried a lot of weight in admissions, not just at UCLA, but at other schools like Hopkins. Professors may also be able to clue prospective students in on the admissions process, who else to talk to, etc.
Now that so many colleges offer online courses, one can take classes from professors at schools all over the country. This might be a consideration for prereqs. Relevant coursework is also helpful, can raise one's GPA, and demonstrates a commitment to learning. The information can also be helpful once one is working. For example, I completed the UCLA Executive Program in Healthcare Management and Leadership. Among many things, we learned how the healthcare system works, the different components of the US healthcare system, healthcare finance, and healthcare law. That was very useful information once I began working as an NP. (I also got great recommendations from some of the professors)
Literally no one cares where you get your NP. I would apply to the cheapest school unless you have someone paying it for you. I have worked with a lot of NPs. What matters is do they do the job well. That is it.
Specializes in Psychiatric and Mental Health NP (PMHNP).
windsurfer8 said:
Literally no one cares where you get your NP. I would apply to the cheapest school unless you have someone paying it for you. I have worked with a lot of NPs. What matters is do they do the job well. That is it.
I must disagree with you. Many hiring managers care where the NP got their degree. I am a hiring manager and I do not hire NPs who only went to for-profit schools. I am also more interested when I see an NP who went to good schools.
I received my MN/NP from a top tier school. They rejected me the first year. I called the school, eventually spoke to one of the professors in charge of the specific focus I was interested in, and asked for advice. Rather than untake undergrad work, her advice was to take 2 specific grad classes as a non-matriculated post-bacc and make an A's. I did that and beefed up my application with volunteer work and great letters of recommendation. I stayed in touch with this professor (let her know my grade) and got in the next year. As a post-bacc, you can take courses that may apply to your future degree, thus they are not a waste. Obtaining info from the specific school you are interested in is invaluable.
Ug — can't correct my typos. Meant "retake". Sorry, using thumbs on a phone to type this.
And I have to agree with the post that where you attend school is irrelevant. This is absolutely true in the workplace. I've been an NP for >10 years, worked several jobs. Where you attend school is irrelevant unless it's on your company's website for the clinic.
emERgency.nurse17, BSN, RN
4 Posts
I did include in my purpose statement and essays that I am from a disadvantaged background, though I'm not sure how much of an "edge" this gives me. I grew up dirt poor (utilities constantly being shut off, foreclosure notices frequently, food insecurity), being raised by a narcotic RX addicted mother, an abusive father who was in and out of my life. I took on a lot of responsibility in my home, including trying to help raise my siblings because my mother was constantly high on her pills (she didn't work d/t SSDI). As soon as I could drive, I became the full time grocery shopper, transporter of myself/ my siblings, employment to help support our household, etc.
I started taking my college courses as a sophomore in high school to relieve my future self of financial burden as I knew my parents would not be supporting me through college. I graduated HS with 40 college credit hours completed. I am disadvantaged, and this has fueled my dedication to my academia. I made a mistake and I am now paying for it. I plan to rectify the situation and come back stronger. I am bummed, but I'm still determined.