2017 Grad. Rejected from Grad School x2

FullGlass, BSN, MSN, NP · Dec 19, 2023

I am very sorry you are going through this. However, please do not give up. You can apply again.

When you are applying to schools with highly competitive admissions, it is a bit of a crap shoot. For my initial undergrad, I got into Yale, but was rejected by Harvard and Princeton.

Looking at your transcript, you did very well in nursing school. However, that F in Chemistry hurt you. I suggest you retake that class and do everything possible to get at least a B. If you retake the class and get at least a C, the F will no longer show on the transcript.

There are other factors to consider for admissions: your essay(s) are very important, as well as your interview. Recommendations can also play a key role.

I advise you to reapply and also to more schools. Pick 1 to 3 "aspirational" schools, 2 to 3 schools with "moderate" admissions standards, and 1 - 2 "safe" schools where it is highly likely you will get in.

If you can raise that F grade, I'm confident you will get into a decent school.

For the application essay(s), do some research on how to write a great essay. There is plenty of information out there on this topic. Have someone you trust review your essay and make suggestions. If you were on good terms with one or 2 of your nursing professions, you might even ask them to review it for you.

For recommendations, since it has been awhile since you attended nursing school, make sure to remind your professors of some of your strengths and accomplishments. Nothing wrong with that. For recommendation from an employer, you can even draft up part of it, so they know key points to highlight.

I don't know if the MSN vs DNP is easier or harder to get into. Go ahead and apply to both types of degree programs. If you complete an MSN, you can always get the DNP later, and your employer might pay for it, or provide some tuition assistance.

BTW - Emory is NOT an Ivy League school. It is also nowhere near as competitive in terms of admissions as an Ivy League school, nor does it command prestige anywhere near an Ivy League school. The Ivy League schools are called that because of the athletic league they are in. Here are the Ivy League schools:

Brown University, Columbia University, Cornell University, Dartmouth College, Harvard University, the University of Pennsylvania, Princeton University, and Yale University. They accept around 3-7% of applicants.

There are many excellent universities that are "Ivy League" equivalent in terms of admissions and prestige, such as Stanford, UCLA, UC Berkeley, etc. For healthcare (medicine, nursing) Johns Hopkins is in that category.

Good luck.

londonflo · Dec 21, 2023

emERgency.nurse17 said:

My GPA is okay, not the best, not the worst. I'm concerned what may be hurting me is that I did fail a course in Fall '22. I had a lot happening in my personal life with my mother being in the ICU for several weeks, then needing short term dialysis, my own mental health, working full time, and the O. Chem course.. something took the back burner, and unfortunately it was the course. I totally dropped off with school, totally forgot about it. When I received my transcript and saw the F, I was so embarrassed. I did submit a statement with my applications explaining the reasoning behind the F.

I can't tell between the 3 transcripts what your Total GPA is but your nursing school and BSN ones are good. Before you retake Organic, I would investigate some schools and make an appointment with admissions. There are counselors who are assigned to assist the student make a good choice - you want to choose a good school and the school wants to choose a good student. Find out if you need Organic for the BSN to MSN/DNP program.

I was in education for 40 years and hope I still know what is going on (retired in 2016). I would consult the actual school you are considering - not just the catalog or website. Exceptions are made, sometimes students are admitted under probationary status, sometimes you have already met the qualifications and don't know it. Think of the success you have already achieved!!

Unless you want bragging rights to your MSN/DNP alma mater that you can utter in every graduate school discussion, look for a sound school full of people like yourself that have a lot of offer. Best wishes!

FullGlass, BSN, MSN, NP · Dec 21, 2023

londonflo said:

I can't tell between the 3 transcripts what your Total GPA is but your nursing school and BSN ones are good. Before you retake Organic, I would investigate some schools and make an appointment with admissions. There are counselors who are assigned to assist the student make a good choice - you want to choose a good school and the school wants to choose a good student. Find out if you need Organic for the BSN to MSN/DNP program.

I was in education for 40 years and hope I still know what is going on (retired in 2016). I would consult the actual school you are considering - not just the catalog or website. Exceptions are made, sometimes students are admitted under probationary status, sometimes you have already met the qualifications and don't know it. Think of the success you have already achieved!!

Unless you want bragging rights to your MSN/DNP alma mater that you can utter in every graduate school discussion, look for a sound school full of people like yourself that have a lot of offer. Best wishes!

An F never looks good and it certainly pulls down the GPA. The OP needs to retake the class, whether or not it is required, and get at least a B. If they do that, then the F will not appear on the transcript. Your experience was in undergrad BSN admissions, not NP or graduate-level admissions, if I recall correctly. Grad schools consider a B average to be poor and anything less is viewed as failing (for a student in grad school). In a decent grad school, if a student's GPA falls below a B, they are put on probation.

The OP did not get into either school they applied to. Telling them to just talk to a school is not helping them.

Admissions to decent NP programs is competitive, and she applied to first and second tier schools. That means the OP must be better than other applicants to get in. An F does not make her better, it makes her worse. These are graduate programs, for goodness' sake. And she applied to at least one doctoral-level program! A lot of students applying to those programs are going to have 4.0 GPAs, outstanding experience, outstanding recommendations, great admissions essays, and excellent interviews. Many will also have a edge due to meeting diversity requirements (either their own background or having a done a lot of work with underprivileged populations, or both). Someone with an F doesn't stand a chance against that type of competition.

The OP has demonstrated an ability to do well academically, so they need to bite the bullet, retake that class and get an A or B.

londonflo · Dec 21, 2023

FullGlass said:

The OP did not get into either school they applied to. Telling them to just talk to a school is not helping them.

I believe actually talking to a representative of a school admission committee/advisor beats an anonymous chatroom advisor who only has their personal experience to fall back on. . YMMV . The OP asked for strategies. Talking to an academic advisor will provide real world 2023-24 year experience and does not cost tuition or a semester's time. If the OP can find out how the school will consider their scholastic record and work history, what is the harm in getting information?

FullGlass said:

In a decent grad school, if a student's GPA falls below a B, they are put on probation.

Actually I have never read a progression policy for a graduate school that allowed more than one course grade lower than a B.. Yes, whether they are labeled 'on probation' or not, the second B will make them ineligible for the degree they are seeking.

FullGlass said:

Your experience was in undergrad BSN admissions, not NP or graduate-level admissions, if I recall correctly.

You recall correctly. But my students did not all stop at a BSN. Forty years of writing recommendation letters provides me with valid experience in what a university may weigh in considering an applicant. There are many success stories I would share but I am not going to get into a contest of who has the superior knowledge on this subject.

FullGlass, BSN, MSN, NP · Dec 21, 2023

londonflo said:

I believe actually talking to a representative of a school admission committee/advisor beats an anonymous chatroom advisor who only has their personal experience to fall back on. . YMMV . The OP asked for strategies. Talking to an academic advisor will provide real world 2023-24 year experience and does not cost tuition or a semester's time. If the OP can find out how the school will consider their scholastic record and work history, what is the harm in getting information?

Actually I have never read a progression policy for a graduate school that allowed more than one course grade lower than a B.. Yes, whether they are labeled 'on probation' or not, the second B will make them ineligible for the degree they are seeking.

You recall correctly. But my students did not all stop at a BSN. Forty years of writing recommendation letters provides me with valid experience in what a university may weigh in considering an applicant. There are many success stories I would share but I am not going to get into a contest of who has the superior knowledge on this subject.

You are completely missing the point. And unfortunately, you are not giving very good advice here. It takes a lot of money and time to apply to schools, and giving poor advice is a great disservice.

Also, do not belittle my experience and advice. Given that I had a terrible undergrad GPA, and then got into Johns Hopkins and UCLA nursing schools, I'd say I have a proven track record of success in rectifying GPA issues. I am also a preceptor. Your admissions experience is old and you were not involved with NP Program admissions, nor did you work for a top-tier school.

I agree there is no harm in talking to an admissions rep to get more info, but I seriously doubt they are going to say the F is fine.

I wasn't trying to debate grad school progression policies, but just that grad school has much higher standards than undergrad. If they frown on a B, how do you think they will view an F?

I don't care if your students went on to further education, the point is that an F on the transcript is not going to cut it when apply to any grad school, especially Tier 1 and Tier 2 schools.

Admissions to decent NP programs is competitive, and she applied to first and second tier schools. That means the OP must be better than other applicants to get in. An F does not make her better, it makes her worse. These are graduate programs, for goodness' sake. And she applied to at least one doctoral-level program! A lot of students applying to those programs are going to have 4.0 GPAs, outstanding experience, outstanding recommendations, great admissions essays, and excellent interviews. Many will also have a edge due to meeting diversity requirements (either their own background or having a done a lot of work with underprivileged populations, or both). Someone with an F doesn't stand a chance against that type of competition. If a school only admits 10-20% of applicants, and has a lot of applicants with 3.5 GPA or higher, then why on earth would they accept a student with an F on their transcript, and has "academic intervention" on the transcript without any attempt to rectify that? They won't.

What is the big deal about retaking a class? My goodness, it is not the end of the world. Retake the class!

I don't understand why some people on this forum make such a big deal about retaking classes they did poorly in!

One of my best friends wanted to be a scientist. Unfortunately, Calculus was almost her downfall. First time she took it, she failed. Second time, failed again. She ended up taking it 9 times! Finally got an A or B that last time. If she had not gotten a decent grade in Calculus, she would not have been able to become a scientist. She ended up with: Master's from UC Berkeley, PhD from Stanford, Post Doc from CalTech, and a prestigious Fellowship, and became a successful scientist.

Someone who wants to get into good schools has to get good grades. Period.

londonflo · Dec 22, 2023

FullGlass said:

Given that I had a terrible undergrad GPA, and then got into Johns Hopkins and UCLA nursing schools, I'd say I have a proven track record of success in rectifying GPA issues.

Yes, your record that is attached to you is great!

FullGlass said:

What is the big deal about retaking a class? My goodness, it is not the end of the world. Retake the class!

The OP would have to take it at the SAME school to get the transcript changed. The OP took at a community college. Because of funding with grants, scholarships etc. all grant funded, state schools must document attendance. The OP can contact the school to get the record of attendance to back up the rationale for not attending.

FullGlass said:

wasn't trying to debate grad school progression policies, but just that grad school has much higher standards than undergrad. If they frown on a B, how do you think they will view an F?

Undergrad grades are calculated on many students and meet the normal curve until (that is( the last decade of grade inflation. Graduate programs have many measurements of achievement -- no courses have 100 plus students in it (unless you are telling me something different about the enrollment at your alma maters)

FullGlass said:

Also, do not belittle my experience and advice.

I don't belittle it -- BUT you were one person applying with one person's scholastic record, references and resume.

FullGlass said:

our admissions experience is old and you were not involved with NP Program admissions,

Au Contraire - You underestimate my experience with recommendations, involvement with NP, DNP and PhD program applications. Your experience is old. As you so helpfully pointed out, many programs require a former professor reference. I still fill out many references as their "Professor of Nursing". I have always had a personal link with my students.

londonflo said:

Forty years of writing recommendation letters provides me with valid experience in what a university may weigh in considering an applicant. There are many success stories I would share but I am not going to get into a contest of who has the superior knowledge on this subject.

londonflo · Dec 22, 2023

Quote

I did fail a course in Fall '22. I had a lot happening in my personal life with my mother being in the ICU for several weeks, then needing short term dialysis, my own mental health, working full time, and the O. Chem course.. something took the back burner, and unfortunately it was the course.

OP, you are NOT alone. I too had a disrupted 4 year college career and it happens more than you think (my mother was diagnosed with cancer and died one year later). The lucky ones are those that can say -- my college career was uneventful except for classroom tests and lectures! Of course we that did not experience this never regret the time with a loved one. I hope you take what I have said to heart. I wish you only good things. I believe in you!

FullGlass, BSN, MSN, NP · Dec 22, 2023

londonflo said:

Yes, your record that is attached to you is great!

The OP would have to take it at the SAME school to get the transcript changed. The OP took at a community college. Because of funding with grants, scholarships etc. all grant funded, state schools must document attendance. The OP can contact the school to get the record of attendance to back up the rationale for not attending.

Undergrad grades are calculated on many students and meet the normal curve until (that is( the last decade of grade inflation. Graduate programs have many measurements of achievement -- no courses have 100 plus students in it (unless you are telling me something different about the enrollment at your alma maters)

I don't belittle it -- BUT you were one person applying with one person's scholastic record, references and resume.

Au Contraire - You underestimate my experience with recommendations, involvement with NP, DNP and PhD program applications. Your experience is old. As you so helpfully pointed out, many programs require a former professor reference. I still fill out many references as their "Professor of Nursing". I have always had a personal link with my students.

No one is going to get into a 1st or 2nd tier NP Program with an F on their transcript as their most recent coursework. End of story.

Community college is not expensive for state residents. Just retake the course and get a C or better and that F is gone. Best way to handle this situation.

One of my best friends makes her living coaching students applying to undergrad and grad schools. She has a great success record. I ran this by her and her advice was the same: Retake the class and get rid of the F!

Her other advice is that given the OPs track record, if she gets rid of the F, she should definitely get into some mid-tier NP programs. So she should put the majority of her applications in to mid-tier schools. Coach's advice is 1 or 2 "aspirational" schools like Vanderbilt, 3 or 4 mid-tier schools, and 1 "safe" school. Applying to only 2 schools is not enough, espcially if they are harder to get into.

But, hey, what do I know? So all of you nurses out there that want to become NPs - your GPA doesn't matter! Recommendations don't matter, either. Go ahead and apply to Vanderbilt and Hopkins with a 1.8 GPA and a bunch of "Fs" on your transcript. Some on this forum are sure you will still get in!

londonflo · Dec 22, 2023

FullGlass said:

But, hey, what do I know? So all of you nurses out there that want to become NPs - your GPA doesn't matter! Recommendations don't matter, either. Go ahead and apply to Vanderbilt and Hopkins with a 1.8 GPA and a bunch of "Fs" on your transcript. Some on this forum are sure you will still get in!

Being sarcastic does not help the OP or anyone who may read this in the future. I stand by my strategies and wish the best for the OP.

FullGlass said:

One of my best friends makes her living coaching students applying to undergrad and grad schools. She has a great success record. I ran this by her and her advice was the same: Retake the class and get rid of the F!

Nameless friend is one of so many making money for coaching students to get into good colleges.

https://www.Google.com/search?q=coaching+students+to+get+into+good+colleges&rlz=1C1CHZN_enUS905US905&oq=coaching+students+to+get+into+good+colleges&gs_lcrp=EgZjaHJvbWUyBggAEEUYOTIHCAEQIRigATIHCAIQIRigATIHCAMQIRifBTIHCAQQIRifBTIHCAUQIRifBdIBCjIzMzYxajBqMTWoAgCwAgA&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8#ip=1

I also recall some parents went to jail/prison for faking records.

Just remember to 'footnote' me when you pass on the information I have corrected you on -- For example " When graduate GPA falls below B you are on probation etc, etc. etc.

Your endless chant of "repeat the course" ad nauseum requires me to suggest you take a job as an admissions counselor and see what the real job entails.

londonflo · Dec 23, 2023

Quote

It's incredible the amount of pressure students are under. I once had a parent tell me, after her daughter got into her dream school, "you've saved our marriage.”

Because of a previous comment I looked at the world of "College Admission Coaching"!

Wowza. Some parent left a quote that the student getting into the student's or the MOTHER'S dream school, That admission saved her mother's marriage! The site I read credited getting on "Shark Tank" to getting them into their 'dream school'.

Look, I am just a normal parent. I helped my son with his undergrad, and medical school applications. I explained the advantages of going to one medical school versus another. I did encourage a Jesuits medical education because he would make some tough decisions in the future. I in no way, threatened that his decision was going to save our marriage ( our marriage which is fine actually) , nor our relationship with him, our future etc.

His residency was at the Brigham, in addition a MS in Public Health at Harvard. He is now the chief surgeon at a world renowned University. Don't pay for something you can get for free. (he went to a world renowned undergrad program and hooked up with some excellent advisors...met with them often, followed the game plan, told us what he heard.)

I know this post will never change one poster's beliefs. Here is what I think is important:

Quote

I still maintain that you should go to the admissions department of the school you want to apply to (before paying application fees). You are getting into a 'people helping profession' while being an ADN, BSN into an NP/DNP program. Shouldn't the university treat you like a person instead of an "F" on a transcript (while the student was providing loving care to an acutely ill mother?).

emERgency.nurse17, BSN, RN · Dec 24, 2023

@FullGlass First- thank you for taking time out of your day to provide advice on here. From the moment I saw the F in O. Chem, I had planned on retaking the course. This sounds ridiculous (and probably almost unbelievable), but I had an A/B in O. Chem until everything happened with my mother. It was like my world was crumbling, the weight was too heavy for my shoulders. I just stopped logging on to the course (it was online only). I missed only the final project and exam, which is why my grade dropped substantially. The knowledge/ comprehension of the course was not an issue; I just did not have the forethought to drop the course with still trying to maintain full time work, care for my mom (including handling affairs while she was vented for two weeks, her MWF dialysis once discharged, and aiding in her other needs). I am certainly paying for it and have learned a tough lesson.

I actually did reach out to VUSN admissions via email and asked if they could take time to provide some advice as to what would make me a more competitive, appealing applicant (aside from failing a course). I received a very generic response that honestly wasn't helpful.. My significant other's mother is a college president (of an instititution with LPN, ADN, and BSN program.. no grad school there). She has been an amazing help in reviewing my resume, statement of purpose, and other questions I had to answer for applications. Of course, at the time of application I did not realize I had failed a course-- I only realized after I had submitted applications as I had submitted that transcript late d/t it taking so long to obtain. When I say I blocked out this traumatic time, I really mean it, I was in pure survival mode.

I look forward to reading whatever else you may have to share. Thank you again!