Getting Paid $$ for End-of-Shift Overtime?

[nyforlove]

This was being discussed on a specialty forum, but it applies universally to hospital nurses, so here goes:

Getting Paid for End-of-Shift Overtime

If a Nurse needs to stay an extra hour after a 12-hour shift to finish (which is a likely scenario for a fresh grad), does a Union make sure she gets paid for that hour, where non-Union hospitals may take the attitude, "Well, it's your fault you didn't finish, so you're on your own time..." I heard of a "friend of a friend" who routinely puts in extra time at the end of a shift at a large Manhattan hospital, but NEVER gets paid...now, I won't name the hospital, because I've never actually spoken to him and the problem may be that he fails to fill out the necessary paperwork (he's a bit "unorganized"). At one of my clinical sites, the Recruiting Office at a smaller Bklyn hospital said it does NOT pay for end-of-work overtime, because it feels the nurse failed to arrange her time appropriately....What are your thoughts? It's not as if a nurse can leave EARLY if she's completed all her meds and notes...she must stay until the end of the shift and if something happens a minute before the shift ends, she absolutely should be paid to stay and take care of it if needed to do so (even if her replacement nurse has arrived, but needs assistance).

[twotrees2]

**

Politics, like wages, shouldn't be something "you just don't talk about because it's not polite." Both should be discussed/debated openly. If we talked about politics more often, maybe we would not be so chronically un-informed (or in your case, mis-informed) as a citezenry.

i do agree it should be doable to talk and discuss politics ( vs when i was growing up there were many things not the least of which was politics you just did not discuss) - and having been one of the chronically uninformed as you put t - until my son was sent from boot camp to front-line war when i decided it was not something i should ignore anymore so i decided to become chronically informed - as for being misinformed - that is a judgement against each other as everyone is entitled to their opinions and everyone will read the same situation differently ( ever watch bill oreilly - amazing how many emails come in on same segment with opposite interpretations lol - amazes me still lol) so based on what we hear and see and FEEL ( and yes i do believe that FEELING / sensing has a big part in our decisions- kinda like when ya meet someone ya usually can tell if you will get along well etc - ) i cant tell you how many on all sides of the spectrum feels the other is misinformed. i love a good political discussion - as i get many different insights and others feelings so i can add that onto my knowledge base ( meaning how others interpret it - can i see it that way too?) i just dont see anyone as being misinformed - yes many are uninformed - usually by choice or circumstance ( I dont wanna know or perhaps dont have the means such ans TV and news etc to find out stuff for whatever reason ) perhaps what Americans need to do IS talk more - i always thought it strange when i was growing up why i was hushed when asked political questions - how the heck was i supposed to learn about it - after i grew up - until i finally had the realization it was a responsibility not right - so i just decided why bother to try learning f no one would talk. have friends of many different perspectives and i respect their views even when we dont agree - i do get sad when i am respectful of them voicing their opinions and love a good debate bt get very sad when someone tries to push those beliefs by intimidation like name calling and how dare yo think different attitudes - and dont respect my ideals. i do not cry if my choice looses and i do not say well - its another's fault cause they voted wrong. one thing that i do know is even politicians are human and as long as i feel they feel they are doing what they feel is right i will support them even if i disagree - if i feel they are manipulating the system however i wouldn't support them - does that make sense and hopefully not offend anyone as i am certainly not trying to offend anyone just voice my opinion. thanks for listening.

[ZASHAGALKA, RN]

The notion that I should not be paid for unplanned overtime is just a ludicrous as the notion that I should be paid for unplanned tardiness. You can circle around it all you want but there is NO valid argument against this fact.

Nor have I made any argument whatsoever that you SHOULDN'T be paid for incidental overtime.

In fact, I have argued that standing up for your incidental OT is empowering to nursing.

I would not tolerate not being paid for incidental overtime. But, that is a function of my maturity, experience, and assertiveness that I have gained over a career.

In fact, in my first nursing job, I DID TOLERATE IT. To my detriment.

I am no longer that person.

You err to consider that I am 'slipping in' talking points. This has nothing to do with the current election cycle. This discussion isn't even 'incidental' to politics. You think businesses are more ethical under Democrat administrations? You err there, as well.

~faith,

Timothy.

[twotrees2]

That's a different topic and there is a thread for it.

https://allnurses.com/forums/f100/charge-nurses-management-supervisors-168299.html

I've actually DISCUSSED it in the right thread.

~faith,

Timothy.

thank you for the link - i generally dont get time to dig hrough all the topics so stick to the emailed top ten ones and the ones my friend finds an tells me are good - i look foreward to checking it out, and will keep any further posts on this type there :)

[twotrees2]

Ok, I'll bite. What have you done to change the policies of your employer? Have you discussed it with anyone? You say you are in a union job - you can't discuss it with your union reps? Why do they allow it?

It's not a problem until it affects you? You condone the behavior by not objecting when it happens to your co-workers. Yes? Isn't that the concept of unions? To stand up collectively and not just when it affects you personally?

One of my points in this discussion is that not paying for incidental overtime happens only because we are intimidated to not speak out.

Let me ask you this: do you work harder and stress out in order to AVOID the confrontation that incidental overtime would create? In effect, doesn't that kowtow to 'the man'? Isn't that the whole point of the policy? To hurry you to avoid incidental overtime? Aren't you being intimidated to AVOID incidental overtime, as intended?

~faith,

Timothy.

i will say that i do know some who need a "boost" to get working a bit harder cause they dont do much work if not given a small kick in the pants to get moving lol - however - if a person has to hurry and work harder and try to get done causing stress and potential problems with care to the patients then it sure is a problem and they need to more assertive and protect not only their license's but the patients rights too. good points. thanks.

[twotrees2]

BE CAREFUL~!

IF YOU ARE CHARTING "OFF THE CLOCK" - there is a GOOD CHANCE that you are not "WORKING" and as such what you are staying to do may not be legally covered by your employer. Essentially, you are a freelance volunteer. And even if it is only "charting", don't get all caught up in the no OT policy to the point that if questioned about the charting you have to admit to a "nursing board, attorney, or court" that you did it "off the clock!"

I will on occasion have to stay and "mop up" a mess, but you can bet, by golly, that I DO stay ON THE CLOCK! I love my home and plan to live there for some time! I'm sure not going to take a chance that by not calling attention to the fact that I "just couldn't get it all done" - would leave me - ALONE - having to justify my actions!

Why risk it???

Also, if you are working as an hourly non-exempt employee and not being paid and the employer knows or should have known it is happening - it is ILLEGAL. IT doesn't have to be the CEO - any member of management that knows it is happening makes the case!

PROTECT YOURSELF!

how does one start a new thread - id be interested in a thread on peoples opinions on carrying their own Liability Insurance - this is the third time a post has brought me to think i am glad i carry my own cause more than likely the employer isn't going to stand aside me. thanks fr helping.

[twotrees2]

I have owrked in the state of CA which has strick laws about OT regardless of you profession/job. One minute overtime is paid, by law (by 15 min increments here). The way that my present hospital takes care of this, it requires you to have the Charge nurse signatureon your correction forms. This is easily done. No in depth form. Each wk. a form must be signed anyways to make adjustments for missed punches(like lunch breaks etc). If you don't have the signature, you don't get paid. I don't know what happens to the charge nurse. I haven't heard any problems on there end either. I think it just reduces the incidence.

i dont know what happens elsewhere but i know i get called to the carpet and told i need to stop signing the papers and tell the girls to get their work done more timely and get out - of course i dont so who knows what will happen lol. i just tell them i did not ask for nor do i get paid extra to do charge so if they dont like what I'm doing have someone else do it - cause i hate charge status to begin with lol.

[scooterRN52]

this was being discussed on a specialty forum, but it applies universally to hospital nurses, so here goes:

getting paid for end-of-shift overtime

if a nurse needs to stay an extra hour after a 12-hour shift to finish (which is a likely scenario for a fresh grad), does a union make sure she gets paid for that hour, where non-union hospitals may take the attitude, "well, it's your fault you didn't finish, so you're on your own time..." i heard of a "friend of a friend" who routinely puts in extra time at the end of a shift at a large manhattan hospital, but never gets paid...now, i won't name the hospital, because i've never actually spoken to him and the problem may be that he fails to fill out the necessary paperwork (he's a bit "unorganized"). at one of my clinical sites, the recruiting office at a smaller bklyn hospital said it does not pay for end-of-work overtime, because it feels the nurse failed to arrange her time appropriately....what are your thoughts? it's not as if a nurse can leave early if she's completed all her meds and notes...she must stay until the end of the shift and if something happens a minute before the shift ends, she absolutely should be paid to stay and take care of it if needed to do so (even if her replacement nurse has arrived, but needs assistance).

i work in pa. and if we work over 40 hr.'s a week at my hospital where i work we get ot, i think that is a law according to the labor board. i used to work in a facility where all of us nurses couldn't take lunch and they weren't paying us, so someone contacted the labor board and the facility ended up giving us all the retroactive pay, some of us got checks that were close to a 1,000.00 and that was about13 years ago. it is wise to make copies of the hr.'s you worked and keep it on file. i print my time sheet out on the computer every 2 weeks.

[dieseldycke]

RN ALERT: Stay Informed and Engaged

Nurses Across Nation Take to Streets to Demand Protection of Right to Organize, Advocate for Patients

http://www.calnurses.org/rn-alerts/

Pending Labor Board Decisions Could Imperil RN Protections, Standards, Patient Advocacy Role

The National Labor Relations Board will soon issue a major ruling that could jeopardize the ability of RNs to receive the protections afforded by CNA/NNOC representation. At the request of healthcare employers and anti-union consultants, the Board is expected to make the absurd ruling that many thousands of RNs are "supervisors" under the law because they make clinical patient care assignments to other staff. Under federal labor law, supervisors have no protection. THEY HAVE NO RIGHT TO UNION REPRESENTATION.

**

Hmmm, should I believe them (the California Nurses Association), or GWB, Arnold, and Timothy. That's a tough one.

hello all, this link is really informative, im just uncertain if i just overread or maybe there really wasnt about it... i mean regarding nurses working 3-11 shift... had to stay till 7:00 am coz the relieving nurse did not show up... here comes payday and wholla, just paid for regular time... according to payroll dept, its not counted overtime because its another workday... whats your thought about it, is this really what the regulation says??? or can somebody send me website link for me to look up on this...

thanks...

[LydiaNN]

hello all, this link is really informative, im just uncertain if i just overread or maybe there really wasnt about it... i mean regarding nurses working 3-11 shift... had to stay till 7:00 am coz the relieving nurse did not show up... here comes payday and wholla, just paid for regular time... according to payroll dept, its not counted overtime because its another workday... whats your thought about it, is this really what the regulation says??? or can somebody send me website link for me to look up on this...

thanks...

My understanding is that it is anything past 8 hours on the same shift, which has nothing to do with it being a new day. If what payroll told you is true, you just really got robbed.

[twotrees2]

My understanding is that it is anything past 8 hours on the same shift, which has nothing to do with it being a new day. If what payroll told you is true, you just really got robbed.

it depends- you have to read your facilities rules - they can get away with it if it is policy that like one i worked at OT was not paid until 80 hours was hit in the 2 week period - didnt matter if 60 hours was in one week - or 14 hours in a day........................

[BSNtobe2009]

You have three issues here: US Department of Labor Laws, State Law and Union Regulations.

Regardless of whether a Union is present or not, any hours worked over 40 hours per WEEK qualifies for overtime a time and a half for a non-exempt employees. All hospitals follow the US Department of Labor laws. The hours worked in a day does not matter. By law, no hospital can refuse to pay a non-exempt employee overtime or pay comp time in lieu of, regardless of the reason for staying over.

If you work as a non-exempt employee in a VA hospital, they can pay you overtime in comp time b/c it's considered a federal job.

There are just a couple of states where the labor laws call for any hours worked over 8 hours in a DAY are considered to be overtime, but over 40 hours per week is the minimum that you can pay regular pay, however, you would need to check with HR b/c these same states do not include all professions..they are mostly for professions where overtime it NOT the norm.

Union regulations may ADD to this, and give you additional provisions, but these are the minimum guidelines they must follow.

[NurseCherlove]

The thing that burns me is that where I work, we are very much pressured to leave on time (with the unspoken threat of being fired for too much 'incidental' OT) and we work three 12 hour shifts a week. I guess my problem is what is the big deal about getting paid a few extra hours a week of REGULAR TIME as long as we don't go over 40 hours?? I chronically work several hours off the clock every week and I am getting sick of it. All too often I hear from my patients how many things regarding their care were not taken care of or I hear that they felt like many of the nurses were very impersonal, even uncaring. I guess these are the 'good nurses' who get out on time every night.