Getting Paid $$ for End-of-Shift Overtime?

[nyforlove]

This was being discussed on a specialty forum, but it applies universally to hospital nurses, so here goes:

Getting Paid for End-of-Shift Overtime

If a Nurse needs to stay an extra hour after a 12-hour shift to finish (which is a likely scenario for a fresh grad), does a Union make sure she gets paid for that hour, where non-Union hospitals may take the attitude, "Well, it's your fault you didn't finish, so you're on your own time..." I heard of a "friend of a friend" who routinely puts in extra time at the end of a shift at a large Manhattan hospital, but NEVER gets paid...now, I won't name the hospital, because I've never actually spoken to him and the problem may be that he fails to fill out the necessary paperwork (he's a bit "unorganized"). At one of my clinical sites, the Recruiting Office at a smaller Bklyn hospital said it does NOT pay for end-of-work overtime, because it feels the nurse failed to arrange her time appropriately....What are your thoughts? It's not as if a nurse can leave EARLY if she's completed all her meds and notes...she must stay until the end of the shift and if something happens a minute before the shift ends, she absolutely should be paid to stay and take care of it if needed to do so (even if her replacement nurse has arrived, but needs assistance).

[Medic/Nurse, BSN, RN]

BE CAREFUL~!

IF YOU ARE CHARTING "OFF THE CLOCK" - there is a GOOD CHANCE that you are not "WORKING" and as such what you are staying to do may not be legally covered by your employer. Essentially, you are a freelance volunteer. And even if it is only "charting", don't get all caught up in the no OT policy to the point that if questioned about the charting you have to admit to a "nursing board, attorney, or court" that you did it "off the clock!"

I will on occasion have to stay and "mop up" a mess, but you can bet, by golly, that I DO stay ON THE CLOCK! I love my home and plan to live there for some time! I'm sure not going to take a chance that by not calling attention to the fact that I "just couldn't get it all done" - would leave me - ALONE - having to justify my actions!

Why risk it???

Also, if you are working as an hourly non-exempt employee and not being paid and the employer knows or should have known it is happening - it is ILLEGAL. IT doesn't have to be the CEO - any member of management that knows it is happening makes the case!

PROTECT YOURSELF!

[Marizela]

Protect yourself??

what IF protecting my self = harming someone else ???

and;sir; its not a matter of ""I "just couldn't get it all done"" because i guess this is nothing about mal-management,, i believe every RN, or mostly Each n every RN would get the work done even earlier than they should, so why cant we leave home if we cant get paid???

so would the extra time we spend securing our patients be considered illegal and harming??

as i noticed there are alot of ILLEGAL issues that are truly against Morals in our Field...

in another point (back to subject),, The hospital in which i work for doesn't really cover the extra time i spend in there working hard, and they don't even appreciate it...

[allele, LPN]

I sign out when I leave, even if it's late, and I do get paid for it. Not OT, but straight pay, which is fine. We don't punch in and out, we sign in and out, and I'm always honest. If I stay over because I was just chatty all day with the other nurses and didn't get to my notes, of course I don't put that time in...but otherwise I do. :)

[GoingHome]

I have owrked in the state of CA which has strick laws about OT regardless of you profession/job. One minute overtime is paid, by law (by 15 min increments here). The way that my present hospital takes care of this, it requires you to have the Charge nurse signatureon your correction forms. This is easily done. No in depth form. Each wk. a form must be signed anyways to make adjustments for missed punches(like lunch breaks etc). If you don't have the signature, you don't get paid. I don't know what happens to the charge nurse. I haven't heard any problems on there end either. I think it just reduces the incidence.

[twotrees2]

This was being discussed on a specialty forum, but it applies universally to hospital nurses, so here goes:

Getting Paid for End-of-Shift Overtime

If a Nurse needs to stay an extra hour after a 12-hour shift to finish (which is a likely scenario for a fresh grad), does a Union make sure she gets paid for that hour, where non-Union hospitals may take the attitude, "Well, it's your fault you didn't finish, so you're on your own time..." I heard of a "friend of a friend" who routinely puts in extra time at the end of a shift at a large Manhattan hospital, but NEVER gets paid...now, I won't name the hospital, because I've never actually spoken to him and the problem may be that he fails to fill out the necessary paperwork (he's a bit "unorganized"). At one of my clinical sites, the Recruiting Office at a smaller Bklyn hospital said it does NOT pay for end-of-work overtime, because it feels the nurse failed to arrange her time appropriately....What are your thoughts? It's not as if a nurse can leave EARLY if she's completed all her meds and notes...she must stay until the end of the shift and if something happens a minute before the shift ends, she absolutely should be paid to stay and take care of it if needed to do so (even if her replacement nurse has arrived, but needs assistance).

at our facility many day nurses will leave cause they get yelled at for OT and then try to fit late entries the next day - or sign out their treatments the next day - dangerous practice in my opinion. i only work part time so i don't get yelled at as its not causing OT but they have mentioned i shouldn't stay after - in which i reply i always stay till MY work is done ( i wont leave treatments etc for the next shift s they suggest i do cause they are usually behind too!) i also will not leave until i know all the nurses i am working with that night have their work done and will help them with what i can.

[twotrees2]

Thanks; perhaps it's a matter of nurses insisting that they get paid--and as you suggested, it may very well be a state-law req't to pay O.T. (I believe federal law exempts nurses--as "professionals"--from required overtime pay [i'm a lawyer, but never specialized in employment law, so not positive about this]) Like the big lawsuits at Wal-Mart (where fed law DOES require OT pay), there were allegations to the effect that Managers "discouraged" workers from submitting OT sheets and pressured them to be "cooperative" and "work as a team"--yeah, which means working for free....Also: Great Point re: being covered under the hospital's malpractice policy if you weren't officially on the clock, e.g., if you're leaving the building in the lobby and a visitor collapses, the insurance carrier--depending on the exact policy contents--might argue that you're not covered....ONE MORE REASON TO INSIST THAT NURSES GET PAID FOR OVERTIME.

also another good reason to carry your own liability policy. i know many nurses who will punch out so they don't get yelled at for OT and then go back and do their charting - but i also know say if a resident crashed for the next shift nurses they gladly jump in to help - which as many point out leads them to liability off clock. it has also brought many of these nurses to burnout or to find another workplace that isn't as bad ( though i am told most places are much the same just different variables of how bad) leaving us even more short. vicious circle.

[twotrees2]

From http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3940/is_199905/ai_n8852239 :

Where registered nurses work for FLSA-covered employers on an hourly basis, they are considered to be nonexempt under the law. There are entitled to the federal minimum wage (currently $5.15/hour), and timer and one half their regular rate of pay for each overtime hour they work. These FLSA requirements cannot be contractually waived, and an accurate record of all their hours of work must be kept.

Where registered nurses are paid on guaranteed salary (or fee) basis to work in their profession, they are exempt from FLSA's minimum wage and overtime rules. Their salary covers all their work hours and minimum wage and overtime pay are not required. The burden of proving the applicability of this exemption, however, rests with the employer.

FLSA-covered employers are generally required to pay nonexempt employees overtime after 40 hours of work in a 7-day work week (that is, 168 consecutive hours). Many nonexempt nurses in health care industries are paid under these rules.

when i worked at the hospital here in wisconsin they had the 80 hr rule- we got paid every 2 weeks so OT was not paid until after 80 hours regardless of hours worked in a week - you could work 60 in a week and still not get it of the total 80 hour 2 weeks was not 80 hours - don't know how they got away with it but it sucked - and with low census etc days if your first week was short you did not have much choice but to pick up extra hours without OT just to get your regular check. sucked.

[twotrees2]

You can organize your work only so much. Sometimes there is simply more to do than at other times. Sometimes the work can simply not be fitted into one's scheduled hours.

It just infuriates me when Management, in their suits, with their secretaries to step and fetch their coffee and their lunch and their dry cleaning, and arrange their meetings, and type their correspondence, and otherwise wait on them like concubines, is going to tell a frontline worker, doing battle every shift, never getting so much as a pee break, let alone a lunch or time to sit down and chart until the relief nurse comes in and then getting bitched at by that one for having left something undone, how to do her job in a more organized fashion.

I'm all for organization but fair is fair. The bosses have nurses enslaved, the bosses are growing fat and rich while the worker bees do all the hard labor and are afraid to claim their well-deserved, earned full pay. The more I hear this, the madder I get. I really need to get out of this rotten line of work. I'm tired of being taken advantage of.

its unfortunate but many of us feel this way ( us meaning me and friends i have in nursing) it really has at times felt overbearing - the residents i work with daily and have grown to love keep me going :) hugs

[twotrees2]

RN ALERT: Stay Informed and Engaged

Nurses Across Nation Take to Streets to Demand Protection of Right to Organize, Advocate for Patients

http://www.calnurses.org/rn-alerts/

Pending Labor Board Decisions Could Imperil RN Protections, Standards, Patient Advocacy Role

The National Labor Relations Board will soon issue a major ruling that could jeopardize the ability of RNs to receive the protections afforded by CNA/NNOC representation. At the request of healthcare employers and anti-union consultants, the Board is expected to make the absurd ruling that many thousands of RNs are "supervisors" under the law because they make clinical patient care assignments to other staff. Under federal labor law, supervisors have no protection. THEY HAVE NO RIGHT TO UNION REPRESENTATION.

**

Hmmm, should I believe them (the California Nurses Association), or GWB, Arnold, and Timothy. That's a tough one.

that's a tough topic as any - personally i cant take to the streets as i don't believe in union in medical field - have turned down Jobs just because they have the union. i know they help keep pay up and abuse down however in my opinion - i could never strike to get my way there, as when a washer isn't being built for a while the washer isn't going to die - but people cant live sometimes without us to care for them. id be the first to cross the picket line.... just my opinion here - have many friends who do think union is good here and work for them - so please do not be offended by my view / opinion - i am not speaking for anyone else nor saying it is bad for anyone else to think differently.

[twotrees2]

Flexing up and down to keep a steady state of staff to pts that is somewhere just shy of panic level activity for staff to keep up might be good for the bottom line, but it's horrible for nurses.

Hence, the 'shortage' which really isn't a shortage but a significant percentage of nurses no longer working as a nurses.

That being said, I would encourage new nurses to NOT chart 'at the end of the shift'. Chart as you go. Once learned, this makes your shift easier. It IS working smarter not harder. Humans work better by taking the time to frequently re-evaluate our situations. A few minutes charting each hour does that for you. I know, I know, you have 12 things to do now. But, if you carve out 10 minutes/hr as 'sacred' to charting, the ability to 'recharge and re-evaluate' your situation can shave minutes off your decision making.

Simply put, you work better acting instead of reacting. A few minutes each hours to put thing in perspective will not only help your charting, but your time management. .

some good points - i have seen many nurses been in field for yrs to just quit - and not just quit but lapse their license and really quit - never thought of the shortage in those terms and you may be right on that. interesting thought. i have also seen many new grads come in and go out of the field due to the abuse of thier time and lack of training ( like expecting them to come in with one day orientation - sigh - even experienced nurses should get more orientation but many places dont give it out.

as for the charting - i encourage it also - i don't ofetn get to do it cause of circumstances ( cant leave the floor due to i work alzheimer's and must have 2 people every min on floor and often so many confused setting off buzzers just cant get to my charts which by law have to be kept at a station which of course is not on our wing - many places have em on the wing which would make it easier for me but ours dont ) anyhow - when i can not get to my charts which is often - i carry plain paper which as i go along i write out what i know i will need to chart while its there and fresh - may seem like more work for me but in end it makes it less as its already written i just transcribe what i already wrote into charts - and i don't have to think back to times and situations as its all in black and white already - just another idea for those who really can not get to the charting for even 10 min an hour. just a thought - it works for me.

[twotrees2]

I can't believe it is even up for discussion. If your work it, you need to get paid for it. All that business about it being your fault if you don't get your work done on time is a load of garbage that nurses put on themselves because we are constantly allowing ourselves to be made to feel guilty for not being "a good nurse".

i know since i have been charge nurse - which hopefully will end soon as they finally hired a pm supervisor - ( i like the idea one pointed to get extra pay for it - i wish but ain't happening ) anyhow - i will not allow my staff to work without being punched in. i encourage them to stay to finish the work and sign their forms and take the heat for it for them. they deserve as its posted here so much - to be paid - it is ludicrous to not but many of the nurses do feel intimidated by the bosses that they are somehow at fault - to slow whatever - it doesn't matter to me - not everyone is as fast as the next - no-one is the same- - on the other hand i also will not allow my staff to up and leave before they have checked with all the units and help everyone get finished - teamwork is the best way in my book for all to get along. i always tell my staff they are doing good - just cause one is slower or does things differently doesn't make em a bad nurse or cna - its unfortunate the management tend to take advantage on those who are slower and jump on them dowsing their self esteem - its sad - i would never want a management position cause i have seen great team players turn sour just by going there - id be afraid id turn too just as I've seen others and i don't want to ever deal that way with people.

[twotrees2]

If you make less than $400,000 a year (which most nurses do) and you vote Republican, you are a sheep.

...that's the truth they never want you to hear.

Yeah, it's all about stem cells and gay marriage, isn't it Mr. President? That's what really matters.

i think its unfair to call people names based on what they vote- that is why we are a free America - to vote for whom we choose. personally i dont vote democrat republican independent - liberal or whatever else definitions are out there - i vote for what is a priority for me and unions is not a priority to me - so whatever way i vote wont be defined by who wants to bust or enhance unions. in other words - if i do end up voting republican ( honestly i cant even tell you who is what cause i dont pay attention to party - it doesn't matter to me - ) i dont think id be a sheep just because of it. all parties have good and bad - all parties tell lies and half truths - and all parties hound on what they think each state wants to hear ( each speech can be the same but spread out different depending on what the people want to hear. it is up to us to read between the lines and decipher what is important to us and vote accordingly - that's what makes America great to me :) just my thought here.