Vent thread... when to send a pt out

Specialties Geriatric

Published

I've been at an LTC facility for 3 months now. One thing is clear at my facility: take caution before sending residents out to the hospital. I was always taught as far as LTC goes, especially as a newer nurse, "when in doubt, send them out." At my facility, the DON seems to be overly concerned with the # of Medicare patients and how it affects the total reimbursement from Medicare, i.e. $$$, folks.

Anywho, I had a 65 yo resident with hx of cva, afib, dvt, esrd and hypertension. Due to the cva, she has dysphasia and can't communicate well. It's apparent to everyone that she's "with it" and understand's what's going on around her but her speech is distorted. She's usually always "talking" though. This morning at 0500, in the middle of my medpass, the CNA's grab me and tell me she's lethargic and not responding as usual. I go in and sure enough she's very lethargic and not responding verbally at all. She's able to follow my commands and squeeze my hands, but very weakly. She couldn't lift her arms at all. Her eyes occasionally rolled in the back of her head and she couldn't keep them open for long. She had a fixed stare at times, so I thought maybe she was having a cva. Her skin was cold. Her bp was 139/77, when her SBP is usually 80-100. Her o2 sat was 82%. I put her on 2L. Her bs was 114, no hx of DM. After I put her on 2l, I wasn't able to get a pulse ox reading.

I grabbed the other nurse who was working and has years of experience and she agreed that she didn't look well.

I sent her out and 20 mins later the ER Nurse calls me with an attitude saying she's treated this patient 3x before and this is her baseline. I calmly told her she's been a patient of mine for 3 months and this is definitely not her baseline. The woman argued with me that because of her hx of cva she is completely nonverbal and doesn't speak. I explained to her she does speak, although incomprehensibly...

The patient was admitted for urosepsis.

My DON said I did a good job assessing, but why didn't I think of giving her a nebulizer treatment? To my knowledge, the resident has never had respiratory issues. She basically told me I should've done more to try and keep the resident there because it looks bad when the hospital is audited by Medicare for readmissions.

I just leave work sometimes feeling horrible. I try to put my patients first and care for them as I would my family. I don't have all the insight and years of critical care experience that my DON has. If that was my grandmother lying in the bed, I would definitely call 911 after doing all I knew to do and still feeling something wasn't right. We're not even able to call the doctor at night, we text him. And it usually takes him eons to respond back. The DON almost expects perfection. If something would have happened to the resident, I would've been blamed. Can't win for trying at this place! I managed to get all of my paperwork done, call the family, finish my med pass, medicate a seizing patient and deal with some low blood sugars and all she could point out were the things I missed this morning!!

Ugh :/ Just venting...

Ah, yes, albuterol is right for urosepsis, the old treat urosepsis via the lungs approach. Why not?

I think you should quietly, anonymously report the DON to the powers that be. She sounds realistic but dangerous. Does she have a longstanding relationship with the evasive, elusive, rarely available doctor, who then writes whatever orders are necessary to cover what's already been done?

She is practicing medicine without a license, she is implicitly diagnosing, she is wanting her staff to do likewise - all so the doctor can sleep through the night or keep seeing patients at the office or keep bringing his business to this nursing home. Maybe it's the facility owner who doesn't want to pay for a doctor who is willing to work. What a damned mess! And it's not uncommon.

Whatever the reason, do not get into this very bad habit of practicing outside of the law. You worked hard for your license and you will lose it if you do what this DON wants you to do. And no one, not the doctor, not the owner, not the DON, no one will back you up if anything goes wrong.

Be sure to document explicitly when you call a doctor - write the phone # you used in the chart. Write what you did when you couldn't reach the doc.

How much trouble are you in for sending someone out without an order?

The ER nurse is a real trip! Never mind her, but do call and give report in the future.

You did great and you did your best. Sometimes we think we should do more but the mere fact that you act quickly is something to be proud about.

Well, since being sent to the ER is a doctor's order, I don't see how any DON could get mad at *nursing* staff for too many ER admits. All we do is provide the doctor with our assessment and he decides on the course of action. If a doctor says the pt needs to go to the ER, what right does a nurse have to question it?

With that said, I *do* think we should treat as much as we can in-house. Not because of $$$ issues (which I couldn't care less about) but because a trip to the ER is very traumatic for our elderly residents. And, I'm sorry, but hospital staff can be very rough and uncaring toward our residents. It's obvious many of them look down their nose at LTC residents.

As for the 'sepsis' thing I agree that in, in theory, we can give some IV ABX, fluids and Tylenol as good as any hospital floor. BUT asking a floor nurse who already has FORTY other residents to also be responsible for someone acutely ill is an insane burden. It's undoable.

Specializes in LTC.

How is that her baseline if she was admitted with urosepsis?

If a resident is stable then by all means keep them in the facility and get an order for IV abx. But your resident to me doesn't sound too stable and you did the right thing by sending her out.

Lets say you kept her and she went even further south.. people would be saying "why didn't you send her out...". You never want that to be the case so .. better safe then sorry.

The evening charge called the hospital this evening and found out the pt was admitted to the ICU. My DON is still brushing it off and saying that everyone here probably has urosepsis and that's something that could be treated here... I was offered a job at a PCU in a teaching facility so hopefully I can move on and get a better nursing foundation there...

Um..no. Many residents can have a UTI or bacteremia, but not urosepsis. Yikes!

ICU....you picked up on this person right in time...good job!

Specializes in LTC, Management, MDS Nurse, Rehab.

When i was a new nurse working in a LTC i had a patient that was in resp distress. no matter what neb tx and o2 i adminstered he pulse ox and ease of breathing never got better. The doctor on call was very rude and ordered more neb tx. I knew something was not right. I called the family and told them that the doctor did not want to send her to the ED but i felt something was extremely wrong. I sent the lady to the ED. A few hours later the nurse from the ED called and told me that she doesnt normally call but she wanted to tell me the patient had a PE. Had i not sent her to the ED she would have died. Thank goodness i iused my assessment skills and gut instinct.

+ Add a Comment