New Diversity Criteria for Admission...what to make of that? - page 2
OK all, I just got a letter from my school last night that states they are instituting a new criteria of "diversity" for admission to all programs. I am applying for ADN in August for the January... Read More
Feb 15, '04Occupation: Registered Nurse Specialty: 7 year(s) of experience in Med/Surg. ; Joined: Jan '04; Posts: 446; Likes: 48Quote from nekhismomNekhismom, I'm very glad to hear that the Army feels that way. I was enlisted in the Navy for 6 years and it wasn't until my last advancement test when I worked for the Commanding Officer - that I found out they had one passing score for minorities and another for the rest of us. That was the main reason I got out. I worked in the Hospital Field and realized they were advancing less qualified people strictly based on race - it wasn't fair to those of us who got higher scores or the patients we were caring for.That is why I firmly believe in the army's philosophy of race......there is NO COLOR except green! No blacks, no whites, no hispanics, nothing but soldiers. Everyone's treated the same, provided you have the same qualifications. ( I'm not saying that discrimination doesn't occur, but at least they try).
If I was an employer (especially in the health care field) - I wouldn't care if you are black, white or blue with pink dots - I would hire the most intelligent person for the job - regardless of race. Hiring someone based on the color of their skin is doing your patients a great disservice. The same goes for College - why on earth you would pass over a straight A student, but admit someone less qualified simply because of their skin color - it's a stab in the heart for the straight A student who busted their rear studying all those years. Everyone should have the same shot at College based on their grades and ability, nothing else should matter. If I were a patient, I wouldn't care what color my caregiver was - as long as she/he was the very best person qualified to take care of me - not just someone who is there to fill the hospitals quota and add more diversity - that's just wrong...
A Company I worked for several years ago went through a major restructuring. There were 10 of us who were Executive Assistants - 9 of us where white and only 1 woman was black. They kept 3 people - one of which was the black woman. She was with the company from day one and knew everything about it. The sad thing was - she thought the only reason they kept her was because she was "black" and didn't think she deserved to stay there. She was a good friend of mine and all of us who were laid off kept telling her that she was kept because she had been there so long she could literally run the place by herself if she had to. She never saw it that way and always thought she was one of the lucky 3 because she was the only black person in the office. It's reasons like this that affirmative action is wrong - even if a minority gets a job - they aren't ever sure if they got it because of their race or because they were the most qualified person for the job. Sorry for the length - just had a lot to say on this subject.... Susan
Feb 15, '04Occupation: RN Joined: Nov '03; Posts: 4,389; Likes: 153Quote from TweetiePieRNSo true. I believe that even the driving license test is designed differently to make it easier for minorities in California, and whites have to take a different test.I live in california and "diversity" is shoved down our throats every second of the day.
You do get tired of it after awhile.Last edit by Sheri257 on Feb 15, '04
Feb 15, '04Joined: Sep '03; Posts: 103; Likes: 2Quote from LPN2Be2004I agree, I think it's a crock of crap that in this day and age for people to get a fair shot there has to be government control. But, I believe if you walked in someone else's shoes (which of course isn't possible) you may understand a little better. Someone earlier mentioned that they were passed over for a position because they were white. I can totoally empathize with that situation. I'm currently in the insurance field. I've worked at this particaular company for 2.5 years. I have a bachelors. A position for an underwriter was open. I was told by everyone that it was mere formality and that I would definately get this position. In fact, if a underwriter called in sick, I was sent over to that department to work. Imagine my surprise and my manager's surprise when it was given to a young white girl, no degree. She had been with the company for 1.5 years, but had no direct underwriting experience. If I were good enough to fill in in that department why wasn't I given the job. I know why and my manager knows why. The weird thing is they still call me over to work in that department from time to time. I could have made a big deal about it, but this job is just a stop on my road of life. I don't plan to be here for much longer.I think it's a crock of crap to have any sort of quotas that are based on race, ethnic background, age, sex, etc.
Acceptance to a new job, school, etc should go to the best person QUALIFIED for it, and not because a company or school needs to keep a certain percentage up.
That wasn't my first time being discriminated against and I'm sure it won't be my last. Some white people may be able to recall one time they were passed over because of their race. Most black people and other minorities, however, can recall many times.
Feb 15, '04Occupation: RN - oncology and palliative care Joined: Jun '00; Posts: 134; Likes: 4Quote from TweetiePieRNDon't be giving them ideas!!!!What's next... accepting students into the program who do not know English, just for the sake of diversity?
Feb 15, '04Occupation: RN Joined: Nov '03; Posts: 4,389; Likes: 153Quote from MyReign1I see your point, and it's a good one. My problem is when the minority has less qualifications and the rules, so to speak, are bent. If both candidates have the same qualifications, then I don't have a problem with the minority getting preference. It's only when the qualifications are ignored in favor of racial preference that I have a problem.That wasn't my first time being discriminated against and I'm sure it won't be my last. Some white people may be able to recall one time they were passed over because of their race. Most black people and other minorities, however, can recall many times.
Of course, some will argue that minorities can't obtain the right qualifications without preference. That may be true. But I've also seen minorities blantantly take advantage of the system. One minority in my husband's office continually pads his expense reports. It's pretty much outright fraud at this point. Yet, they don't fire him because he screams racial discrimination every time they audit his expenses. They don't want to deal with the race issue.
I've seen the same thing in other jobs, BTW. One minority kept submitting multiple taxi cab receipts for $20 (the maximum allowed), when the cab rides cost only $5. We all knew the real expense because we all had to take cabs to the same destination. Yet, when he was questioned about it, he accused the company of racial discrimination, and they let it go.
It's a Catch-22. Surely something needs to be done about racial discrimination. But these kinds of situations don't help, IMHO. Employers may think twice about hiring minorities, not because of discrimination, but because of the above mentioned problems. How do you manage an employee who screams racial discrimination every time there's a problem which doesn't have anything to do with race at all? It potentially poisons the well, so to speak, for minorities who truly deserve a better chance.Last edit by Sheri257 on Feb 15, '04
Feb 15, '04Occupation: CDU nurse Joined: Sep '03; Posts: 4,001; Likes: 542this is why the whole system of affirmative action needs to be revamped. I understand the "need" for some companies to have "quotas" because there are many many employers who will not hire other races because of their own personal prejudices. (and yes i have seen this in predominantly black companies with regards to hiring whites and others). I don't agree with affirmative action as it is but i also know that it sometimes is the only way to force people to give others a fair shake. I absolutely do not agree with lowering standards to meet a quota. This brings up another issue. I always feel like i have to work twice as hard to let people KNOW that i belong where I am at and that my Grades are top notch so that they aren't resentful or think that i am less qualified than they are. This is a sad reality. Whenever someone "loses" a job or a spot in school do to what they "think" is affirmative action, the assumption is that the minority who took "their" spot was less qualified. Sometimes that may be true but not in many cases! PLease everyone PLease remember that not everyone who benefits from affirmative action is an unqualified, unmotivated individual. It just simply is not the case.
Feb 15, '04Occupation: CDU nurse Joined: Sep '03; Posts: 4,001; Likes: 542by the way for everyone that knows someone who is defrauding their company and the managers know about this criminal action, it is their fault for letting it continue. There is NO WAY that any court would award ANY settlement to an individual when they were fired for criminal activity (and there was proof). So the cases of padding expenditure reports and cab fees make no sense to me. The only way an employee would have any leverage to cry racism is if the company has a reputation for discrimination and the employee has something on the manager. Other than that, no judge or jury is going to award a settlement to a criminal over an unproven or unsubstantiated cry of racism when there IS proof that the employee was fired for stealing from the company. Any manager worth a hill of beans should know this.
Feb 15, '04Joined: Jul '00; Posts: 11,351; Likes: 388Manyhave minimum requirements and anyone who meets them has an equal chance of getting in, depending on other factors. Getting all As in high school may not matter if the minimum for admission is a C and the other criteria are all subjective (like interviews, essays, etc). There is really no impartial admissions process, because even the "standard" criteria like grades are not objective. I might have gotten all As and you might have had all Cs, but if I took easier courses, or had different instructors, it isn't a true measure of how we compare to eachother. Or, I might have done more extra curricular activities, but maybe that's because you had to get a job to help your family buy food. And, it isn't necessarily an indication of how I will do in the nursing program.
Feb 15, '04Occupation: RN Specialty: 15 year(s) of experience ; Joined: Oct '02; Posts: 4,763; Likes: 844Years ago, I took an exam to qualify for a government job. I was told that posted score would be lower than my actual score due to "race norming".
This was explained to me that because I am white, my score would be lowered. Scores of non-whites would not be lowered.
The tester told me that this was to even-out the playing field for the less atvantaged. Although I am white, I come from what can be considered a very disatvantaged background.
The exam was a manual dexterity test.
Well, I didn't get the job because of my previous back injury.
This is a whole lot of BS. Giving applicants of color an atvantage is racist in itself, as it implies that they could not get in on their qualification alone.
Feb 15, '04Occupation: Operating Room Nurse Specialty: 5 yrs OR, ASU Pre-Op 2 yr. ER ; From: US ; Joined: Jun '03; Posts: 17,036; Likes: 1,007I didn't get a government job because i was white, thanks to the good ol' quotas. Nevermind that the person who DID get the job wound up being in court for theft from her JOB. It's a screwed up system.
(A person i knew that worked at this place had explained to me that diversity was a major issue, and that i had very little chance of getting the job because i "wasn't part of the percentage" they were looking for )
Feb 15, '04Joined: Sep '03; Posts: 103; Likes: 2'But I've also seen minorities blantantly take advantage of the system. One minority in my husband's office continually pads his expense reports. It's pretty much outright fraud at this point. Yet, they don't fire him because he screams racial discrimination every time they audit his expenses. They don't want to deal with the race issue.'
The examples you mentioned are criminal. They have nothing to do with race. Don't blame the system because management didn't file charges on his employee. That was his problem not affirmative action. AA does not condone illegal activities by anyone of any race. If he was qualified enough to run a department he should atleast know that. I'm sorry but this story rings somewhat false to me. Like Judge Judy says, "If it doesn't make sense it's not true." Most of us know we have to tow the line and pray that others will as well because we know that if anything comes up missing we'll be the first blamed and the first fired. So either they suspect he's stealing but have no proof or it isn't true.
It's also sad that everytime a black person gets a job over a white person, everyone automatically assumes that person was less qualified. Have you ever once considered that that person may have been more qualified? Honestly, ask yourself that question. Could it have been possible that person was more qualified? Yiu weren't in the interview and you didn't see his resume. If you never considered it you may have just learned something about yourself. If not, let me spell it out. You are prejudiced!! (This isn't directed at you. Just something for everyone to think about.)
Now, in my example. I knew the girl and her experience, or lack there of. My manager didn't even want to look me in the eye when he told me I didn't get the job. I of course, didn't blame him, because he was visibly upset and had nothing to do with the hiring process..
Feb 15, '04Occupation: RN Specialty: 15 year(s) of experience ; Joined: Oct '02; Posts: 4,763; Likes: 844I once lived in an apartment complex where one tenant broke into a vacant apartment and caught in on fire.
The offending tenant told the landlord "I'm in a wheel-chair, and I'm an Indian. You can't touch me."
He was right. The law was afraid to prosecute the guy.
The landlord could not even get any legal cooperation to have the guy evicted.
It seems the pendulum always swings too far one way, then too far the other.
(BTW- the guy put himself in the wheel-chair, by driving drunk and causing an accident).Last edit by Hellllllo Nurse on Feb 15, '04
Feb 15, '04Occupation: RN Joined: Nov '03; Posts: 4,389; Likes: 153Quote from MyReign1Hey, if it was my call, I would have filed charges. But I wasn't in management, so it wasn't my decision. I can tell you that one of the minorities was a fairly high profile TV personality, and the company was worried about bad publicity if they pursued a case against him. The company was also under pressure to hire more minorities at the time.The examples you mentioned are criminal. They have nothing to do with race. Don't blame the system because management didn't file charges on his employee. That was his problem not affirmative action. AA does not condone illegal activities by anyone of any race. If he was qualified enough to run a department he should atleast know that. I'm sorry but this story rings somewhat false to me. Like Judge Judy says, "If it doesn't make sense it's not true." Most of us know we have to tow the line and pray that others will as well because we know that if anything comes up missing we'll be the first blamed and the first fired. So either they suspect he's stealing but have no proof or it isn't true.
It was common knowledge around the office, mostly because everybody's records were scrutinized for the same thing. The accounting department was pretty upset about it. But hey, if you don't believe me, that's fine. I have no reason to make this up. That's what happened, believe it or not. *Shrug*Last edit by Sheri257 on Feb 15, '04