Good Grades=Bad Nurse? - page 2
Yesterday, my psychology instructor (who also happens to head the nursing program) indicated that students with a 3.5 GPA would make better researchers than caregivers because of lack of "bedside... Read More
May 22, '02Occupation: research nurse Joined: Oct '01; Posts: 1,878; Likes: 44Good Grades=Bad Nurse? Don't be silly
May 22, '02Occupation: RN Joined: Nov '99; Posts: 2,950; Likes: 619I don't know about your program. I am in a BSN program with a research component. We are taught how to evaluate research for validity and practical aplicability to practice. If a teacher came to me with such a statement I would suggest that she show us the study and whatever supporting and subsequent studies there were so we could practice our skills of evaluating reasearch on these.
My guess is this is something she just heard. It does seem to be a popular phrase, but I have NEVER seen ANYTHING to back it up. Sure some nurses who are high achievers are more science oriented than people oriented. But the KEY WORD HERE IS SOME. With nothing to back up this statement it is like saying, "Reasearch has proven that blacks have smaller brains." This is something that was also once a common belief. They even had some phoney baloney reasearch to "back it up" But under the light of day it has been shown to be deliberately false research evidence.
"Reasearch has proven." is a statement that is used to as validity to one's oponion. It is used ignorantly. Reasearch does not PROOVE anything. It suggest things, it supports theories, but never prooves anything and anyone who knowns anything about reasearch knows this. The only prooving it can do is to disproove a hypothesis.
"Indicates" is the word you stated that she use in a way that suggest this is an absolute. Suggests is a better choice and she should be prepared to back up this up with more than one peice of careful completed reasearch, or otherwise indicate that it was a single flawed study. (all studies are inherently flawed in some way)
This is too broad a statement, which in itself suggest serious flaw.
Shame on your instructor...:imbarLast edit by Agnus on May 22, '02
May 22, '02Joined: May '01; Posts: 2,979; Likes: 7This kind of thing really irks me too.
Its like when the C students in my program say "yeah, she's really book smart... but she probably is lost in clinical" (talking about anyone who has higher than a C average).
I care about my grades A LOT. I think they are a reflection of me, my academic ability, my dedication to the program, my level of motivation. If someone feels great about themselves getting a C, that's fine, that's not my problem, but a blanket statement like this is only going to make A students feel inferior to C students in the clinical arena. That is ridiculous.
If someone is incapable or unwilling to put forth the effort and achieve A's in school, the professor shouldn't come up with some snoop crappy crap (as my dad would say) like this to placate them and make them feel better about their average intellectual ability.
May 22, '02Occupation: RN Joined: Nov '99; Posts: 2,950; Likes: 619C student = good beside manners
good bedside manners = good nurse
there fore A student = poor beside manners
and there for as well A student = poor nurse and good researcher.
The logic is circular and therefore a fallacy.
This instructor obviously was a C student herself.
based on the above reasoning this certainly must be true as she obviously knows nothing about reasearch and therefore would be a poor reseacher. There fore she must have been a C student. :roll :kiss :chuckle
Sorry I just could not pass this up.
May 22, '02Occupation: RN.... Joined: Apr '02; Posts: 255; Likes: 6AGNUS!!!!!! Ha ha ha ha, my thoughts exactly.
Now, I had a 3.9 in college and got a BS in Biology along the way, and I also have lots of letters from patients in the ED thanking me for my care and compassion, so I guess, according to my patients, my bedside manner is ok...perhaps I should work on it, but I don't know...It is what my manager rated me highest on at my last eval.
Now, you will not find too many C students doing a lot of nursing research and going to grad school, simply because generally a 2.0 average isn't enough to get into grad school. But you know, grad school isn't everything.So perhaps thats why she thinks A students are better researchers, they do usually end up being the researchers, but their bedside manner, is probably just as compassionate as anyone elses, and probably ANYONE's is better than the above mentioned professor, Shame on her, she showed herself to be a fool. Perhaps you should print this thread and show it to her, anonymously, of course....
Aug 2, '06Occupation: Occ health, med/surg, ER Specialty: Occ health, Med/surg, ER ; Joined: Nov '05; Posts: 476; Likes: 90Yep, I have dealt with this too. Everyone gives me crap because I get ALL A's. Id rather have a nurse that understands concepts take care of me than a nurse that barely passes nursing school...
Not to say that nurses that barely pass end up to be crappy nurses... However, something has got to be said about understanding concepts or being able to deal with anxiety enough to pass an exam....
Aug 2, '06Occupation: LPN Specialty: 4 year(s) of experience in LTC/Behavioral/ Hospice ; Joined: May '04; Posts: 1,269; Likes: 284*sigh* I heard this all throughout school. It really irked me seeing as I had the highest grades in the class. I happen to think my bedside manner is fine, btw, and so do the nurses I've worked with. I would ask the instructor to cough up the research. That will probably be enough to make her think twice before making such claims.
Aug 2, '06Occupation: pulling patients back from The Light Specialty: pulling patients back from The Light ; From: US ; Joined: May '05; Posts: 10,813; Likes: 25,299ROFL!! HA! :spin: Seriously, a damaged individual (that instructor). Wonder what happened to her to make her so bitter or resentful toward A students??
Just goes to show you that a C student can go on to become a head of faculty and seek to impart her vast wisdom on the future nursing community.
Truly a great comic moment, thanks for the laugh! Unfortunately your classmates had to be subjected to this poppycock as truth, though
Aug 2, '06Occupation: RETIRED RN Specialty: 16 year(s) of experience in oncology,med/surg,corrections ; Joined: Aug '06; Posts: 31Totallystupid of them to say such a thing.
Aug 2, '06Occupation: Urgent Care Joined: Feb '04; Posts: 1,740; Likes: 49Isn't bedside manner included in our clinical grade? I know I can't get an A in clinicals without having a good repoire with fellow students and patients. That is bogus IMO.
Aug 2, '06Occupation: RN Specialty: 2 year(s) of experience in OR, Robotics, Telemetry ; From: US ; Joined: Oct '05; Posts: 45; Likes: 21:yeahthat: And then some! I just completed my first semester of nursing with a 4.0 and I have a 3.94 overall, and YES -- bedside manner IS part of my clinical grade!
The only 'negative' commit my clinical instructor made is that I am 'too willing to bend over backwards for my patients.' She said that I need to 'encourage' them to do more for themselves. (She is right).
The idea that 'c' students make the best nurses is just silly. :smackingf Not that they will make bad nurses either, I know some great ones that claim to have been 'c' students. It depends on the person.
Modesty is for those who have nothing of which to be proud.
Aug 2, '06Occupation: RN Joined: Nov '03; Posts: 4,389; Likes: 153The top student in my class does happen to have trouble in clinicals and people like to point that out, I think, because they are jealous of her grades. On the other hand, there are other A students who do very well in clinical so, obviously, it depends on the individual.
They have us learn this stuff for a reason so, I don't necessarily buy into the argument that C students make better nurses either. I also work as a student extern and, just the other day, I happened to catch a major med error before the med was given because I had just studied that drug in school. My RN had simply forgotten about this particular contraindication because she had been out of school for so long.
There are some people who may have problems applying book learning to real life but ... that book learning still comes in handy. The RN's on my floor are constantly looking stuff up all the time when they're not sure of something.
So ... regardless of whatever grades anybody gets... I'll take somebody who studies and knows this stuff (or, at least bothers to look it up) .... over somebody who doesn't.
Aug 2, '06Occupation: Labor and Delivery RN Specialty: LDRP ; Joined: May '02; Posts: 1,595; Likes: 201well, guess i'm screwed as an A-B student...
HA! whatever! i would need to see some actual numbers/sources before believing that malarky!
guess my clinical instructors written comment last semester of "you will make an excellent nurse" after watching me at bedside like a hawk means NADA!
i think i'll let MY instructors evaluate MY performance and the naysayers can go on commenting all they like...Last edit by allthingsbright on Aug 2, '06