For those "medicly minded" students feeling like they're in the wrong field of study. - page 2

Fellow suferrers, I'm writing this because there may be others like me out there before I realized that nursing has almost nothing to do with science, or medicine, and is often at odds with the... Read More

  1. by   Peeps Mcarthur

    I'm not going anywhere yet. I'll still post on the board, but my survey of the holistic model is complete. I think that medical-minded people that belive they're getting into another branch of science should be prepared for a great disapointment, as I have.

    I want to encourage responses while I'm planning for spring semester and am unable to directly quote and discuss each good point you've taken the time to make. I appreciate all the responses even if you think that they are harsh, or they disagree too strongly. I will address you also, with the same respect that I address the positive responses(or at least I'll try reel hard)that's for Oramar

    It is all what makes this BB the best nursing site, and it makes us all better for it in the end. Please don't hesitate to post your opinnion because you think people will get on your case for being negative.....................I will defend you, and so will other regulars.

    Sorry I don't have time to cut and paste tonight, but keep it going and I'll enter the discussion more prominently tommorow.
  2. by   oramar
    Oh I got a good example of what Peeps is talking about. Year ago I started new job. You know the one I got fired from after 3 weeks. Anyway, I get morning report from nurse that tells me a patient, who happened to be a foreigner, was admitted during the night with syncopy. She also tells me that the patient will not look her in the eye and this particular nurse thinks it is somesort of cultural problem. I go in and do my assessment. To my horror I realize the woman is having a CVA and that she has that "eyes to the side" problem that some CVAs experience. I rush to notify her doctor who orders a neuro consult and the usual test. I groan inwardly and say to myself. "There is a nurse who took one to many cultural sensitivity courses and one to few patho courses". So, there is actually some sort of problem here. On the OTHER hand. I have watched WAY to many Mds focus way to much on test results and not enough on subjective info. Believe me, I have seen many people whose complaints were ignored because preliminary testing was negative. Some pretty serious illness don't show up on routine testing. If someone insist they don't feel well someone better be listening. I could give more specific examples but I have yacked away for to long already.
  3. by   EmeraldNYL
    Good point oramar, it is necessary to know the pathophysiology as well as listen to the patient. I firmly believe that medicine is half science, half art.
  4. by   NurseShell
    I was pretty surprised at the difference between "nursing" and "medicine" when I first started this Fall! I had no idea there was a difference! However, I don't really "notice" the difference anymore...cuz we do A LOT of medical stuff - pathophys, metabolic, disease process...lots!! Mind boggling at times! BUT I LOVE IT!!!
  5. by   BMS4
    Peeps, good luck with your new direction. I'm glad you will continue to post. I'm looking forward to hearing about your classes and clinicals.
  6. by   l.rae
    my science pre reqs were grueling, as were a couple of the med-surg courses, but the nursing program as a whole still focused too much on the touchy feely....good luck peeps, glad you will keep posting. l enjoy reading your thoughts.....perhaps for oramar you can typo your user name as Pees THERE's a visual.....LOL..........LR
    Last edit by l.rae on Dec 17, '02
  7. by   Peeps Mcarthur
    From Oramar
    Anyway, I get morning report from nurse that tells me a patient, who happened to be a foreigner, was admitted during the night with syncopy. She also tells me that the patient will not look her in the eye and this particular nurse thinks it is somesort of cultural problem.
    That's pretty funny Oramar! Those kinds of things make me feel like a frigging genius.
    That's a good point of referrence for the problem of unbalanced curicculum too. This nurse could have scored well in my program. You can count on blanket cultural variations taking precedence over differential diagnosis of actual diseases. Schools can be pushing Maslow's hierarchy with physical needs being number one, and then demanding a totaly different schema for assessment. My program totaly skimmed the physical assessment and insisted that we were making a nursing assessment instead. We focused on therapeutic communication and psychosocial history taking.
    Another example of weak curicculum was that we were taught correct placement of the auscultation points but not how to analyze the sounds we heard, or what they meant to the patient's physical needs, and the possible pathophysiology behind them. Big woop! I know were to auscultate, and if your lucky, how to describe it in the notes, but I don't really know how that relates to the medical model or what to do with the information.
  8. by   Peeps Mcarthur
    By Irae
    my science pre reqs were grueling, as were a couple of the med-surg courses, but the nursing program as a whole still focused too much on the touchy feely....
    The science prerequisites for my program were 2 semesters A&P, 1 semester of math, 1 semester of chemistry, 1 semester of lower-level(read non-transferrable) microbiology. All through those programs the nursing students were hanging by a thread. I'm no genius, but I found myself tutoring the other students. I observed that the students having the greatest difficulty in the sciences had an inverse ability in the "touchy-feely" courses like Developmental studies, psychology, recieving an easy "A" without spending any time at all studying. They could thread psychosocial theory into any situation, and would out of sheer terror anyway:chuckle , but ask them to apply pure science, as in Oramar's post, and they are struggling.
  9. by   Peeps Mcarthur
    By Fergus51

    Good luck Peeps! It did sound like you got a sucky program. Mine was heavily geared towards A&P and pathophys and clinical after the first year (which was very touchy feely). I hope PA school suits you better.
    Looking at 2 semesters of calculus and 2 of organic chem..............I will take that luck, youbetcha

    The introduction of science in the second year would be too little too late for me. The basis of the program is set. A program that is saying "psychosocial issues are more important than medical ones" would stress the "touchy-feely" in the first year. I think that's what your program is saying and I know that's what my program is saying. The exams heavily weighted questions to favor psychology and reward the student that thinks along those lines first.
    I got a "B" by simply erring on the sappy side of the question. If there was a roll-your-eyes touchy-feely answer you could just ignore the possible science.

    Yup, I was guessing.:chuckle
  10. by   Peeps Mcarthur
    Legsmalone, Jessjoy,

    I just want to clarify that I was in an ADN program looking into a BSN program that appeared from the list of classes to have the same focus.

    The curriculum can't be called "balanced" if your taught nursing diagnosis and psychosocial issues as the basis for functioning within a medical world.

    True, you'd have to have some psychosocial knowledge to be able to think holisticly. Since nurses are the contact point for patients, thier relatives, and come in contact with a widely culturaly diverse(you like this stuff don't you) population, it would be prudent to have some psychological training. A nurse must also have an ability to think medicaly, but it must carry more weight than the non-sciences because your position as the greatest contact point for the patient demands it.

    Even Maslow's hierarchy lists physical needs before all others................does your curicculum?
  11. by   Liann
    If you yearn for scientific theory, study medical technology. I have a BS degree in biology, and a certification as a MT(ASCP) I spent 3 years on campus and the 4th year as a student in a hospital school of medical technology. We are the laboratory professionals who ensure accurate results on the tests MDs use to treat patients. The lab is the place for science!
  12. by   Peeps Mcarthur
    By Stargazer

    I had to pass microbiology, organic chemistry, anatomy, physiology, and pathophysiology courses as prerequisites before I could even start nursing courses. Pharmacology, A&P and patho were major components of every class from OB to Advanced Med-Surg in class and we were tested on these constantly, in class and in clinical.
    I took my anatomy, and micro at a 2 year college. Since those courses don't transfer outside of the ADN-BSN to any four-year institution I imagine they were inadequate to anything but a nursing program.

    My program did stick some obligatory science in most of the classes, but they didn't test it or apply it to clinicals. Most of the students I talked to thought it was adequate, and they were quite relieved since it wasn't affecting thier grade. Boy are they in for a shock!

    If I saw a program like the one you describe I would have looked into it, but would have wondered about its basis if OB was stressed. At my former program pediatrics and OB are entire semesters. In medical terms they are areas of specialty, not basic training.

    I can hear the psychosocial train comin' round the moutain in those two rotations.:chuckle
  13. by   llg

    I really appreciated your original post in this thread and I agree with much I have read in the responses. Personally, I am old and got my BSN in the 1970's. My program was very balanced between the hard sciences that you prefer and the "softer" social sciences, and humanities that drive you crazy. Also, we had plenty of choices in our electives so that students could choose to emphasize the aspects of nursing they prefered and develop sub-fields of expertise.

    It sounds like your program is not nearly so balanced. I hope you find a program (either in PA studies or something else) that meets your needs.

    On a side note ... it still surprises me -- and disappoints me a little -- that so many people still think of nursing as a "medical career." The public (and prospective students) still think of "health care" as being synonomous with "medical care" -- not realizing that each different discipline is truly a separate discipline.