For those "medicly minded" students feeling like they're in the wrong field of study.

Nursing Students General Students

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Fellow suferrers,

I'm writing this because there may be others like me out there before I realized that nursing has almost nothing to do with science, or medicine, and is often at odds with the medical community. These facts may have alot to do with why nursing is the Rodney Dangerfield of the hospital and "don't get no respect" from administration and has a poor public image.

I've spent the better part of the last year trying to rationalize nursing didactic focus. I can find no value in it that develops the critical thinking skills that those pronursing advocates would have you believe exists. I also don't understand how a bachelors degree in science can be awarded to a person completing four years of training in that supposed science with only a college level math and one lonely little chemistry course. I figured that the science in nursing would be unique, but not so unique that it did not resemble science at all. I kept waiting for the next set of classes to show some inkling of medical knowledge until the day I recieved the "pharmacology" packet. The one class out of twentyfive that had real promise of laying out some scientific information, but clung desparately to its psychosocial touchy-feely model. None of the contraindications were explored and the assessments all involved hypoventilation as a focus. The main theme for that packet was drug calculations, which are nothing more than operations with fractions. I could go on of course, but if you are a scientific minded person you have been feeling this since the prerequisites, so you know what I'm talking about.

Really, I should have given this up a semester ago, but I had to explore the possibility that it may have been just a poor attitude about something new. I can honestly say that the attitude belongs to nursing's curicculum. Ever since Florence Nightengale nursing has been struggling to define an identity. If they use the medical model they wouldn't be unique enough to justify a separate identity. That yearning for identity complicated the use of anything medical, though they obviously already had a separate identity within the medical model since the job desciptions between nursing and other allied contrast. I'm here to tell you that nursing has quite successfuly cut-the-cord. There is very little to hold interest to the scientificly minded individual. The problem with that course is that nursing is now so estanged from the medical community that birthed it, that it doesn't work in medicine at all. Nursing is psychology and philosophy, masqerading as a science. By its own efforts it has become so separated from medical thinking that it is now dysfunctional in it.

It is not you.

Nursing just doesn't work for someone that thinks about medicine. The students that are fond of the sciences now in prerequisites and loathe the psychology and developmental theories, will neverfind what they seek in a nursing program. You will be miserable, as I was, and you will make the people around you miserable.

You can't hold your breath until NP classes either. The same anti-medical thinking dominates that too. Save yourself, and your brilliant and exact medical thought process, and see nursing for what it is.

This past week I have prepared to start work on the pre-coursework sciences that I'm lacking for a degree in physiology and neurobiology. I will become a physician's assisstant. The curicculum in the last two years is the same medical model that the physiscians themselves trained in. It's the same program. I will then chose a specialty to train in and will diagnose and treat disease under the supervision of a physician as a colleague, not an adversary to thier philosophy of patient care.

It's not you..................really.

Peeps,

I just want to wish you good luck. Like Dr. Kate said, it does take alot of courage to realize you need to make a change. I can understand some of your points and do at times crave a little more science in nursing... that is why I went for ICU and that's why I am planning on becoming a CRNA.

However, there are times that I wonder if nursing was really the best place for me. I envy you that you are able to make the change. Anyhow, I wish you lots of luck. I am sure you will make a wonderful PA!

Best wishes... :)

Hey,

I'm not going anywhere yet. I'll still post on the board, but my survey of the holistic model is complete. I think that medical-minded people that belive they're getting into another branch of science should be prepared for a great disapointment, as I have.

I want to encourage responses while I'm planning for spring semester and am unable to directly quote and discuss each good point you've taken the time to make. I appreciate all the responses even if you think that they are harsh, or they disagree too strongly. I will address you also, with the same respect that I address the positive responses(or at least I'll try reel hard)that's for Oramar ;)

It is all what makes this BB the best nursing site, and it makes us all better for it in the end. Please don't hesitate to post your opinnion because you think people will get on your case for being negative.....................I will defend you, and so will other regulars.

Sorry I don't have time to cut and paste tonight, but keep it going and I'll enter the discussion more prominently tommorow.

Oh I got a good example of what Peeps is talking about. Year ago I started new job. You know the one I got fired from after 3 weeks. Anyway, I get morning report from nurse that tells me a patient, who happened to be a foreigner, was admitted during the night with syncopy. She also tells me that the patient will not look her in the eye and this particular nurse thinks it is somesort of cultural problem. I go in and do my assessment. To my horror I realize the woman is having a CVA and that she has that "eyes to the side" problem that some CVAs experience. I rush to notify her doctor who orders a neuro consult and the usual test. I groan inwardly and say to myself. "There is a nurse who took one to many cultural sensitivity courses and one to few patho courses". So, there is actually some sort of problem here. On the OTHER hand. I have watched WAY to many Mds focus way to much on test results and not enough on subjective info. Believe me, I have seen many people whose complaints were ignored because preliminary testing was negative. Some pretty serious illness don't show up on routine testing. If someone insist they don't feel well someone better be listening. I could give more specific examples but I have yacked away for to long already.

Good point oramar, it is necessary to know the pathophysiology as well as listen to the patient. I firmly believe that medicine is half science, half art.

I was pretty surprised at the difference between "nursing" and "medicine" when I first started this Fall! I had no idea there was a difference! However, I don't really "notice" the difference anymore...cuz we do A LOT of medical stuff - pathophys, metabolic, disease process...lots!! Mind boggling at times! BUT I LOVE IT!!!

Peeps, good luck with your new direction. I'm glad you will continue to post. I'm looking forward to hearing about your classes and clinicals.

my science pre reqs were grueling, as were a couple of the med-surg courses, but the nursing program as a whole still focused too much on the touchy feely....good luck peeps, glad you will keep posting. l enjoy reading your thoughts.....perhaps for oramar you can typo your user name as Pees Mcarther....now THERE's a visual.....LOL..........LR

From Oramar

Anyway, I get morning report from nurse that tells me a patient, who happened to be a foreigner, was admitted during the night with syncopy. She also tells me that the patient will not look her in the eye and this particular nurse thinks it is somesort of cultural problem.

:chuckle

That's pretty funny Oramar! Those kinds of things make me feel like a frigging genius.

That's a good point of referrence for the problem of unbalanced curicculum too. This nurse could have scored well in my program. You can count on blanket cultural variations taking precedence over differential diagnosis of actual diseases. Schools can be pushing Maslow's hierarchy with physical needs being number one, and then demanding a totaly different schema for assessment. My program totaly skimmed the physical assessment and insisted that we were making a nursing assessment instead. We focused on therapeutic communication and psychosocial history taking.

Another example of weak curicculum was that we were taught correct placement of the auscultation points but not how to analyze the sounds we heard, or what they meant to the patient's physical needs, and the possible pathophysiology behind them. Big woop! I know were to auscultate, and if your lucky, how to describe it in the notes, but I don't really know how that relates to the medical model or what to do with the information.

By Irae

my science pre reqs were grueling, as were a couple of the med-surg courses, but the nursing program as a whole still focused too much on the touchy feely....

The science prerequisites for my program were 2 semesters A&P, 1 semester of math, 1 semester of chemistry, 1 semester of lower-level(read non-transferrable) microbiology. All through those programs the nursing students were hanging by a thread. I'm no genius, but I found myself tutoring the other students. I observed that the students having the greatest difficulty in the sciences had an inverse ability in the "touchy-feely" courses like Developmental studies, psychology, recieving an easy "A" without spending any time at all studying. They could thread psychosocial theory into any situation, and would out of sheer terror anyway:chuckle , but ask them to apply pure science, as in Oramar's post, and they are struggling.

By Fergus51

Good luck Peeps! It did sound like you got a sucky program. Mine was heavily geared towards A&P and pathophys and clinical after the first year (which was very touchy feely). I hope PA school suits you better.

Looking at 2 semesters of calculus and 2 of organic chem..............I will take that luck, youbetcha;)

The introduction of science in the second year would be too little too late for me. The basis of the program is set. A program that is saying "psychosocial issues are more important than medical ones" would stress the "touchy-feely" in the first year. I think that's what your program is saying and I know that's what my program is saying. The exams heavily weighted questions to favor psychology and reward the student that thinks along those lines first.

I got a "B" by simply erring on the sappy side of the question. If there was a roll-your-eyes touchy-feely answer you could just ignore the possible science.

Yup, I was guessing.:chuckle

Legsmalone, Jessjoy,

I just want to clarify that I was in an ADN program looking into a BSN program that appeared from the list of classes to have the same focus.

The curriculum can't be called "balanced" if your taught nursing diagnosis and psychosocial issues as the basis for functioning within a medical world.

True, you'd have to have some psychosocial knowledge to be able to think holisticly. Since nurses are the contact point for patients, thier relatives, and come in contact with a widely culturaly diverse(you like this stuff don't you) population, it would be prudent to have some psychological training. A nurse must also have an ability to think medicaly, but it must carry more weight than the non-sciences because your position as the greatest contact point for the patient demands it.

Even Maslow's hierarchy lists physical needs before all others................does your curicculum?

If you yearn for scientific theory, study medical technology. I have a BS degree in biology, and a certification as a MT(ASCP) I spent 3 years on campus and the 4th year as a student in a hospital school of medical technology. We are the laboratory professionals who ensure accurate results on the tests MDs use to treat patients. The lab is the place for science!

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