Was I right? or was I wrong? Confused? - page 2
tonight, was the first time in 7 days i went out. i was asked by a friend, and a few of the local police if i wanted to come up to a local tavern and play darts with them. well the night turned... Read More
Nov 22, '02Joined: Nov '00; Posts: 931; Likes: 18sjoe makes some good points. In nursing, we get it pounded into our psyches to never hurt and never hit back. If a patient breaks your nose with a good left punch, we are taught to politely excuse ourselves from the room in a non-aggressive, non-defensive manner.
Many, many years ago I was working on a psych unit. One of the patients chose to go into a full blown psychotic break when I happened to be the only nurse at the nursing station. I never did a thing to protect myself. I took the beating until I could manuever the patient next to a chair and pushed her off balance so she fell unharmed and safely into the chair. Me? I spent 6 weeks in the hospital, couldn't work for 2 years, and still have chronic pain from the incident. That was 20 or so years ago.
I decided that I would NEVER take a beating like that again. In a similar circumstance, my health and well-being would become more important than my patient. I decided that I'd take my chances with the SBON rather than be hurt to that extent again. If I lost my license, I'd still have my health. That's different from the little old confused lady who leaves a bruise the size of Texas. I'm talking about a BEATING from ANYone, to make the distinction clear. There's a difference between minor injuries and life-threatening and violent beatings.
The question you asked about whether or not you did the right thing is moot. The incident is over with. You did what you felt was best AT THE TIME, as did I when a patient beat me. Those violent incidents will definitely cause you to think about it, over and over. And as someone said above, the questioning yourself is part of healing from the trauma, both psychologically and physically. But, as you think this through and heal, decide for yourself if this is what you really want to do should you ever get into a similar situation. And then hope that you never have to make that choice again.
Nov 22, '02Joined: Feb '02; Posts: 1,178; Likes: 222originally posted by cen35
...right now, i hurt bad, i'm upset, i feel foggy?, i look like a beat up cripple...and feel like crying?
i need some honest opinions here?....
take it easy now...o.k. don't second guess what you've done either...it's always best to go with your gut instinct. your phyisical wounds will resolve themselves in no time...continue to talk with friends & family & your emotional ones will soon dissipate before you know it as well.
get better - luv moe.
Nov 22, '02Joined: Jul '02; Posts: 3,872; Likes: 18There is nothing wrong with turning the other cheek. Back in the day, a girl tried to start a fight with me. I just sat there, didn't scream at her or anything (which I think p*ssed her off even more). She slapped me, and yeah, I coulda kicked the crap out of her, but what does that prove? All she proved is that she was unstable and a tad on the psychotic side. Everyone was really impressed that I didn't cream her a*s b/c being calm was not in my nature. I don't know why I didn't.
It takes a big man to turn the other cheek. I'm sure no one thinks less of you b/c you didn't stand up for yourself. And, you didn't have much for backup. It shows a great deal of maturity to stand up to others and not be afraid. They are in a lot more trouble now, and it didn't sound like they will be out anytime soon.
Do you have any medical bills? I would go after them for that. Let them make license plates in the big house for the next 30 years to pay you back. But, I would be hesitant to sue them civilly for the heck of it. They obviously don't have a pot to pee in. They will be in prison for a long time and you'd never see a dime of it. I think the headache isn't worth it.
Besides, think of the joy you will feel knowing that they are someone's b*tch in the big house. They won't be so tough then. I'm sure they will be crying for their mama's.
Anyway, I hope that you are feeling better. I wish you well.
P.S. I'm proud of you!!!Last edit by emily_mom on Nov 22, '02
Nov 23, '02Occupation: RN Specialty: ER, PACU, OR ; Joined: Dec '98; Posts: 2,120; Likes: 28thanks for the support..........
one thing i do want to say to sjoe though........you said:
"4) take some useful martial arts training (most of which is attitude, not simply skills)."
i don' t talk about it, but i took 3 years of ishinryu, 2 years of shotokan, and 1 year of kun tao. the one thing that the instructors all said, in most cases. you need to either go all out and take them out, or back off and leave, or be prepared for the beating. why? because there is no such thing, as just a little fighting, or a little karate.........just do it.......or don't.
well despite the training, etc. ect. i have always had issues with going all out and possibly permanently injuring someone, and then on top of it have to risk the issue of civil suite on myself. i can take a beating....so what it comes down to, is whether or not i feel my life is at risk. i didn't feel that...they were drunk, and i hadn't had anything to drink yet....i had several oppurtunites to take them out........but didn't.
thanks again for the input.
Nov 23, '02Occupation: Retired Specialty: 15 year(s) of experience in Corrections, Psych, Med-Surg ; From: US ; Joined: Aug '02; Posts: 2,246; Likes: 48As I said, it is a matter of whether YOUR health and welfare (not simply your life) is more important to you than the health and welfare of dirtbags like these, (and others whom you are bound to meet, sooner or later).
I couldn't agree more with your instructors, and having taken several martial arts myself, figured they would teach you these facts. When you choose to accept their teachings, you will be better off (unless, of course, you prefer being beat up or gain the wisdom to simply "stay out of it" if you aren't going to be useful).
Look around you. How many forms of life would survive if they "had issues" with destroying other forms of life (as eating does, for example)? I didn't make these rules, and I don't ignore them.
There is no point in you and me getting into an extended discussion of this, since you already have the facts, the evidence, the training, and everything else you need. It's simply up to you.Last edit by sjoe on Nov 23, '02
Nov 24, '02Joined: Nov '02; Posts: 47; Likes: 2You didn't have much time to make a rational plan of attack did you? You did what few people in this world would have done and that makes you a hero to me. Do or do not, there is no try- Yoda. Hugs and loves to you and yours!
Nov 25, '02Joined: Mar '01; Posts: 2,730; Likes: 602OMG Rick, you could've been killed! Glad that you are ok and I think that you did the right thing. Hope it didn't take to Cops too long to arrive. So, when do you wanna go out an play darts? He- he just kidding. Take care of you!
Nov 29, '02Occupation: Diabetes educator, Telephone triage Specialty: 31 year(s) of experience in Everything but psych! ; Joined: Jul '02; Posts: 1,265; Likes: 26CN35....You deserve a halo.
Nov 29, '02Joined: Oct '02; Posts: 1,671; Likes: 3the guy was drunk and not likely to be reasonable. did you have a plan before you intervened? could you have used other buddies in a SOF [show of force] to confront them, that is not stand there alone? [sometimes an overwhelming group can keep the blows from starting] could you have called to others to help as the 'perp' started over the counter? could you have protected yourself a bit by rolling under a table or putting a chair between you and your assailant? Were you drawn up in a defensive posture?
I'm not second guessing; these are the kinds of questions considered in a debriefing. In psych we are trained to protect ourselves with defensive moves, of late some pain inducing responses are being taught to outreach and ER staff.
I understand you were not on duty and out just for enjoyment . I am thankful you were not killed. I understand and share the impulse to help; I [and my husband] have experienced painful assaults, plans do not always work out.
talk about learning in the school of hard knocks... best wishes
Dec 1, '02Occupation: RN pacu CPAN Specialty: 40 year(s) of experience in Critical Care,Recovery, ED ; From: US ; Joined: Nov '00; Posts: 1,136; Likes: 721There is no good answer here. Thr crux of the problem is in the first question "Do I get involved" If the answer is no then that ends your involvement. If however it is yes then you must be prepared to act. The ancient Chinese philosopher/General put it simply, when you enter the killing fields you must kill. Don't get involved directly if you are not prepared/ ready to everything.
Dec 1, '02Occupation: Nurse Joined: Oct '01; Posts: 12,715; Likes: 2Intoxicated ppl who fight and hurt others really tick me off.
Rick I think you were very courageous. I think you took the high road.
Dec 2, '02Occupation: RN Specialty: CV-ICU ; Joined: Oct '00; Posts: 2,343; Likes: 51Rick, I've got a fast-flashing Irish temper, so if someone (not a patient) hit me I'd personally kick them in the groin! That is my gut reflex; but you and I are different people. If you knew what you were doing at the time and that was your gut feeling in this situation; then you did the right thing. Never second-guess your gut feelings.
I certainly hope you are feeling better now. Sorry I didn't see this earlier. Hey, take care of yourself, okay?
Dec 2, '02Occupation: a just a nurse contemplating the nature of my career..... Joined: Oct '01; Posts: 2,344; Likes: 21CEN---------