To Scuttle or Not to Scuttle?

Nurses General Nursing

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when i was back home in florida, we were instructed even in nursing school to follow the md's into the patient rooms in the morning when they checked on them. that was protocol in that facility, and the nurses were welcomed by md and patient alike. we were to keep track of what the md had planned, and then after the md left the room, 9 times out of 10 the patient would ask questions or mention things the md needed to know. the md's liked their orders started on and could talk to you about it in the nurses station while the patient was fresh in their minds. when i was displaced to tennessee, i confidently walked right on in behind the md into a patient's room and was mortified to have done the wrong thing. i was to scuttle under the nearest rock and be seen but not heard at my new facility. the other nurses were shocked that i would even consider being welcome at a time like that. i felt so low. the hospital i came from was small and the md's had a great report with the nurses. we were treated like valuable participants in the continuum of care. i was wondering what your facilities expect you to do when the md is there....here in tn they still give up their seats, where the male doctors gave up theirs to us in fl. i was confused but set straight directly. so..to scuttle or not to scuttle???

Specializes in Operating Room.
Reminds me of one doc we had that would round late at night. He would situate himself in a chair lounging backwards with his feet on the desk and request coffee from the nurses. He asked me once saying, "How about a nice hot cup of coffee?" I replied (smiling), "Oh, no thanks, I'm fine" and walked off.

He never asked me again.;)

Either that, or "trip" when you're bringing it to him and pour it in his lap! LOL, that would be for a real jerk or a repeat offender though. In all seriousness, some of what I"m reading here makes me sad. That charge nurse that brought the doc a plate of food and changed the channel for him?:trout: WHAT? I wouldn't make a habit of doing that for someone I'm sleeping with, never mind a doctor. Who, incidentally, I consider a co-worker, not the boss of me.

I have to say, there are some jerky surgeons out there but in the OR, there are ways of dealing with such nitwits. I think they learn real fast that nurses can make or break them, especially when it comes to getting their cases done in a speedy manner. I have found that the respect level and teamwork is a little better in the OR. I have had to teach docs how to use a piece of equipment or troubleshoot when something isn't working properly.

As a side note to The Commuter: Commuter, you are worth so much more than how you are treated at your facility. You're a good nurse-I'd leave that toxic place if I were you. If I worked there, my personnel file would be nothing but write-ups for not catering to spoiled docs!:lol2:

Specializes in CVICU, PACU, OR.

When I worked on the floor I would sometimes follow the doctor into the room especially if I wasn't clear about what the plan of care was or if I knew that there were issues that needed to be taken care of. Most often though the doctor didn't want or ask for any input. I will give up my seat if I know that the doctor needs a computer or a place to write a note/order. Their time on the unit is limited and I can usually find something else to do.

In critical care my input is valued by the doctors and I feel like I am more involved in my patient's progress and plan of care.

the antagonism doesn't need to be there on anyone's part. if there are mitigating circumstances, sure. i have no problem moving if need be. i would not deliberately show passive-aggressive behavior toward anyone. thinking about it, how long do i sit for anyway? if i am sitting, it is only because there is something pressing to be done, and it needs to be done quick! i was just wondering how others' facilities function when i was culture-shocked.

i know what you mean. the other hospital in our town is completely different. the nurses and docs there are at each others' throats most of the time. at ours, most of the docs are from one huge group practice; perhaps that is what makes the difference.

one of our surgeons came in the middle of the night to sit with an agitated patient so that the nurses caring for her could take a break; after which he went back home to bed. am i going to give up my seat and bring him some coffee when he needs to chart after spending 16 hours in or? hell yes i am.

Specializes in being a Credible Source.

I have to say, nurses who refuse to give up a chair just to make a point are just as much a part of the problem as doctors who expect the chair to be given up simply because they're a doctor.

In a professional working relationship, the assets should be utilized where the need is most urgent. If the urgent need is with the nurse then s/he should keep the seat; if it's with the doctor then the seat should be relinquished.

As they say, "it take two to Tango," in a positive way or a negative one.

I wouldn't submit to an order to retrieve coffee nor a rude or expectant request but if I had a few minutes to spare (OK, now stop laughing...), I'd happily offer a cup to a haggard colleague (nurse or doc) who's worn out and plops down into a chair. That's just hospitality. I guess it all depends on the way in which I'm treated. I'm not a servant but I don't mind putting myself out a bit in order to help smooth someone else's path.

To the OP I say, "No, don't scuttle. However, don't get miffed if the docs prefer to do their rounds solo. It's just the culture in which you're working. Try to build a relationship with some of the docs and then mention that you've found it helpful in other settings to visit the patients with the docs. As a new person, you still need to build credibility with them before they'll be so willing to consider changing how they do things."

Reading these posts reminds me yet again why nurses are considered second class citizens and are only useful for taking out the trash, cleaning bedpans, and being doormats. :madface:

I have always gone to the rooms with doctors when I have the time. It lets them know that I am not just here to satifsy regulatory requirement, that I am an integral part of that patients recovery. I get info that I wouldn't have otherwise as well as having more of an idea of how to interpret that chickscratch known as orders and progress notes.

Until nurses stop this bending over backward crap allowing themselves to be treated badly instead of the educated professionals they are, nurses will continue to be looked on a money-grubbing hospital decorations.

You will have to decide for yourself how to handle this situation. Obviously the nurse in Ft. Worth has decided that she likes something about her job enough to act in a manner worth of a nurse from 1900. If you like your job and can put up with doing a disappearing act numerous times a day - then do it. If you are willing to cause a stir, put up a fight, make some waves even if you might get yelled at etc - then GO FOR IT! Me - I always make waves. Sometimes those waves have threatened to drown me and it was fun trying to tread water but that it who I am. You have to decide for yourself what you can an cannot tolerate and what you are willing to go through if you decide to buck their system.

then, of course, there are always those doctors who EXPECT to get blasted by the nurses.

i am reminded of 1 doctor, whose mannerisms were nothing short of atrocious.

he would scowl/bark at all nurses w/demands (not requests), would walk away when trying to update him on pt status, and just stare at us w/such contemptuous glares.

we nurses in return, responded w/appropriate disdain.

the med'l director even threatened for him to lose privileges at this facility.

one time i escorted him to a pt's room.

i was walking far behind him, so he didn't see me.

i needed to see how he interacted w/his pts.

i was blown away.

he saw 3 pts., all w/family present.

and when i tell you, that he had the most sensitive, compassionate bedside manner, i didn't recognize this man.

keep in mind, this is an inpt hospice facility.

so, my worst fear was this dr. being equally as disgraceful to our pts.

and yet, he turned out to be the gentlest, sympathetic and competent dr. i've yet to meet.

as he came out of his last pt's room, i was waiting in the hall.

i had been one of the few nurses who didn't blatantly disrespect him.

rather, there were a couple of us who chose to ignore him.

i could only look at him in amazement....shock.

quietly, i told him that though i'll never know why he is such a brat to the nurses, i was deeply touched by his manner w/his pts.

i think he wanted to cry.

perhaps it's because this doctor was around 5'3:

and most nurses said he had a "napoleonic complex"?

who knows.

but that day, he eyes watered up when i spoke to him....reached out to him.

it touched him, as it touched me.

the times he did come in, he grunted "good morning" to us.

he would look at me then quickly put his head down.

nurses just about fainted.

but they all responded with "good morning, dr. xxx".

it was clearly awkward for him...:chuckle

but it was clearly a start.

i LOVE that man, now.

he's cranky and scowly, but manages to crack half a smile, now and then.

he still grunts.

but since sharing my story w/the other nurses, others have gone to observe.

and they are equally as touched.

dang, just last week i saw him.

and just to bust his chops, i gave him an affectionate noogie on his head.

everyone laughed and he even managed to snicker....and turn red.

it's all good now.

some of those horror stories, do have happy endings. :balloons:

leslie

I have to say, nurses who refuse to give up a chair just to make a point are just as much a part of the problem as doctors who expect the chair to be given up simply because they're a doctor.

In a professional working relationship, the assets should be utilized where the need is most urgent. If the urgent need is with the nurse then s/he should keep the seat; if it's with the doctor then the seat should be relinquished.

As they say, "it take two to Tango," in a positive way or a negative one.

I wouldn't submit to an order to retrieve coffee nor a rude or expectant request but if I had a few minutes to spare (OK, now stop laughing...), I'd happily offer a cup to a haggard colleague (nurse or doc) who's worn out and plops down into a chair. That's just hospitality. I guess it all depends on the way in which I'm treated. I'm not a servant but I don't mind putting myself out a bit in order to help smooth someone else's path.

Thank you... precisely what I've been trying to say, only you did so much better :)

The aforementioned surgeon called me one day with some orders, and afterwards asked me how my mother was doing. I sorta broke down and we had a long talk. At the end of the conversation, he asked if I could stop by on my way home the next day. I was confused about the request, but headed there after work. His nurse escorted me into his office, and he handed me 3 plane tickets so that me and my kids could go see my mom during what turned out to be our last Christmas together before she died.

And some ask why would I dare bring him coffee??

Specializes in Operating Room.

Leslie, I love that story-I think with some of these physicians, they just have no social skills. I also know physicians who would give as good as they got and were true friends to the nurses they worked with. I have no problem doing nice things for a doc who has been respectful, and who would do the same for me. I just don't care for how some of them expect it just because they have the MD credential after their name.

At my hospital, it depends on the doctor. Most of the doctors want us to round with them when we can (we are practicing "relationship-based care" which as far as I can tell simply means the hospital is saving money on charge nurses...topic for another thread). When I round with the doctor, I can usually answer his questions immediately without him/her having to look in the computer, I can address questions about pain control, diet tolerance, etc. Also, I work on a surgical floor and the surgeons have the habit of rounding on patients in between cases and many times forget to write out all of their orders. If I was in the room with them, I can write out verbal orders they may have missed. As far as giving up a seat, if the charting room is that busy, I will usually try to escape it anyway and don't mind charting in a patient's room.

Specializes in Geriatrics, Med-Surg..

Up here in Canada, it just depends on where you work. Most hospitals have limited numbers of computers so often the Dr. gets to chart while they are in the unit. In LTC, the few that I have seen, the nurse (LPN) gets the charts out before Dr. arrives and also there is a book with res needs/concerns written down. Some of the Dr.'s like the nurses to go with them on their rounds and others don't. I tend to give my seat up for the Dr. because I don't need any hassles with supervisors and the Dr. is usually on there for a short time.

Specializes in Corrections, neurology, dialysis.

I think it's best to conform to the culture of whatever hospital you're in.

I think it's true of just about anywhere you work......the attitudes are different. I have found it better to go with the flow and not expect things to be the same way they were where you came from. It's a little hard at first, but once eventually you begin to see why things are the way they are.

Maybe it's just me. I spent most of my life swimming against the tide. I don't have the energy anymore. I have found it is much easier to go with the flow. It takes less time to adapt too.

So you didn't do anything wrong. It's just different there and you didn't know the custom. It's okay.

I don't want to round with the doctors, goodness knows that I don't have time for that! But most of the docs at my hospital will come to ask the nurses what they think before they go see the patient. And we all fight over seats in the nurses station, RNs and MDs alike. We teased one doctor because there was a stool that he particularly liked (that everybody else only used if it was the last available.) So we put a sign on it the week that he was on call for his specialty that said it was his. He was tickled.

I've gone out of my way to do things for the docs that I don't have to do. But ONLY for the docs that do the same for me. Work with me, I'll happily work with you, we're ALL in this together!

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