teenagers/need advice about violence - page 3

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I have a unique problem. I have five kids, 22, 20, 19, 17 and 14. My two oldest are off in college, the 19 year old lives with us and goes to college, works part time. The 17 year old is special... Read More

Oct 22, '02
Occupation: RN Joined: Aug '01; Posts: 2,276; Likes: 42

renerian-

So sorry to hear of your family troubles.

My guess is that you will probably have to call the law on your son. Since he is over the age of 18, neither you or your husband can legally force him into therapy, or drug testing without a court order. My younger sister gave my parents fits for several years. Lying, stealing from them, bouncing checks. (She never physically attacked anyone, that I know of). My parents called an attorney and they said there was no way to get her to see a therapist unless it was court ordered. So, my parents had her arrested. Hardest thing they ever had to do in their lives but my sister left them no alternative. My parents even offered to pay for therapy for her if she would go, but she wouldn't hear of it. My sister spent a couple of nights in the county jail before posting bond. As part of her sentencing she had to pay back my folks (she maxed out the charge cards), pay back the businesses she bounced checks at, and do community service. Best thing that ever happened to my sister. After living a nightmare for 6 years, she finally came to her senses. She is now married to a wonderful guy, has a decent job and is making something of herself now. My Mom said you don't know heartache until you see your child being led out of a courtroom in handcuffs and shackles. But the tough love worked in my sister's case.

You need to protect your younger children first and foremost. Even though it will be hard, file a report with the police, TONIGHT!! This young man definitely has some serious issues to work through in his life. Let him know that you love him, but under no circumstances will you tolerate such behavior. Then stick to it. Adding you to my prayer list. Let us know what happens.
Oct 22, '02
Occupation: Nurse Joined: Oct '01; Posts: 12,715; Likes: 2

Susan, I don't have any words of wisdom like the others, just wanted to send positive vibes your way and let you know that I CARE too. Please keep us posted

kue
Oct 22, '02
From: US ; Joined: Oct '01; Posts: 6,238; Likes: 1,829

Originally posted by ptnurse
My heart goes out to you renerian. I don't have a lot of experience in this area. I do know that if you have one child who has a violent temper, you are going to have to do something to protect your other kids. This boy needs a psych evaluation. If I remember correctly the peak time for disorders like schizophrenia to start is in the late teens to early twenties. Most often in males. For what it is worth, you have my best wishes. I would really like to know how this works out, if you would not mind keeping us posted.

I agree 100% with ptnurse. MANY of the things you mention throughout the thread make me think psych issue-including the part about him being a big sweet heart at times.

For ME the appropriate application of "tough love" would be that if he will not voluntarily submit to a psych eval I would have him arrested and get the judge to make the eval and treatment as indicated a condition of his bail and or probation...a round about way of forcing him to cooperate.

Even with an eval and meds if appropriate he may not be able to live at home any longer...for everyones safety and sanity.

I do disagree with the suggestions he join the military...I was a raised in a military household and was a military wife. The military is no longer a dumping ground for disfunctional people. It is not the militarys job to "fix" people with problems... look at this way, do we really want people defending our country who are not functional adults ?... do we really want to intentionally arm people who are prone to being irrational and violent with automatic weapons and the training to use it effectively?
Oct 23, '02
Occupation: RN, MS home health Joined: Aug '02; Posts: 7,472; Likes: 49

Kue, sleepy, granny, flowerchild thanks so much for your ideas. Hubby did not get home till 10p from work and plopped in bed. We are talking today. I agree 100% and all of your thoughts are very valuable. I will keep you posted.........

Thanks for caring,

renerian/susan
Oct 23, '02
Occupation: travel nurse - ob Specialty: OB ; Joined: Jul '01; Posts: 3,170; Likes: 4,503

Renerian - I'm so sorry to hear all this coming down on you. Quite seriously, as someone who has dealt with young people with both issues, I'd be almost certain this is either drug related or the onset of schizophrenia. I know that sounds harsh, but the sooner a problem is identified, the sooner you can get help. Just a thought - is there any adult in his life that he is still open to? I ask because I was able to fill this role for one teen who could not live at home and was able to convince him to go into voluntary inpatient tx. for schizophrenia (In this case background as a former psych nurse made him believe me) Sometimes someone not emotionally involved can be more effective.
Please believe (though I know it's very hard to) that you are NOT to blame - the best parents in the world have kids who fall under the influence of the wrong things or develop psychiatric disorders.
Oct 23, '02
Occupation: RN, MS home health Joined: Aug '02; Posts: 7,472; Likes: 49

Thanks baglady. I talked to hubby before he left for work today about drugs. He said he was going to talk with him today, had set up a time to meet with him, to discuss what is bothering him. I usually play mediator to everyone in the family who is distressed as sometimes tempers fly. Not to say I never get mad cause sometimes I do but I try very hard to be non-threatening. He is going to tell son he needs to seek help or he needs to find somewhere else to move to. Both the younger kids are afraid of him now.

Thanks to all my friends here and if I can ever help you do not be afraid to ask,

renerian
Oct 23, '02
Occupation: run a private group home Joined: Jul '02; Posts: 144

Renerian, my heart goes out to you and your family. I agree with many of the posters that it sounds like your son has some problems that he doesn't want to/ won't/or can't deal with until he HAS to. It sounds like the mother in you wants to take care of everything for him. Don't we always want to spare our children the pain we see for them down the road. Our kids grew up with the policy that if we're afraid of you or if you're into gangs or drugs, I love you, but you don't live here. We all deserve to live in a safe and healthy environment.
It sounds like your son is needs help, but it is NOT your responsibility to make sure he gets it. The responsibility is HIS. Please keep your family safe from your son right now. I agree that I would contact mental health and the police department ASAP!
I have special needs children too and the rules still apply. I understand that it is your worst nightmare to have to deal with this, but denial will only make it worse. It isn't YOUR responsibility to make sure your son gets the help he needs, but it is your responsibility to make sure you do everything in your power to keep your minor children safe. I truly know the pain you must be having to deal with, but think how you'd feel if something happened to your 17 &/or your 14 yo. Please seek help and know that we are all here praying for you and will listen anytime!
I hope I don't come across too harsh, I don't mean to. My heart goes out to you and your family. I have been there and I wouldn't wish it on anyone. One thing I did learn is that denial is a crippling mindset and can be deadly. If you'd like to e-mail me, please feel free to at 2amigos@plateutel.net
You're in our prayers!
Cheryl Moore
Oct 23, '02
Occupation: RN, MS home health Joined: Aug '02; Posts: 7,472; Likes: 49

Heavens Cheryl that is not harsh at all. I posted to get lots of caring peoples input on this situation. You are right on the money. We parents want so much to help our kids that sometimes we do lose objectivity. I can say huby did talk to him and he so far is agreeable to getting some more therapy. He never came home last night so who knows where he is. Hubby met him at work this morning. He is so angry. Thanks again for offering your input. I really do appreciate it.

renerian
Oct 23, '02
Occupation: RN, ICU/CCU Joined: Aug '02; Posts: 1,062; Likes: 7

I know that this is going to sound horrible, and I just don't know how else to put it! Please know though that it is from the heart, and not meant to sound nasty like it will...

By not calling the police, and waiting to talk to hubby, then waiting another day, then hubby just meeting him to talk about drugs...

you have just made it seem "ok" to him that he committed ATTEMPTED MURDER in your home. You are enabling him to treat you and your family badly by allowing him to call you names and sheltering him under your roof. He NEEDS help, not a talk about drugs -- he will most likely keep up his denial and throwing the blame on others anyway.

Listen to the other posters here, and get him the help he needs. He is at an age where the mistakes he makes can either become lifelong mistakes, or he can be turned in the right direction. Ignoring it and talking about it no longer works for him, because he has chosen NOT to listen. He got away with it, why should he listen?

Hugs to you.... I hope you get it worked out.
Oct 23, '02
Occupation: RN, MS home health Joined: Aug '02; Posts: 7,472; Likes: 49

Thanks Summer and no it does not sound harsh. Huby is supposed to call me soon after a meeting and I will approach him again on this. I agree 100%.

renerian
Oct 23, '02
Joined: Nov '00; Posts: 931; Likes: 18

I am so sorry, too. It is with a great deal of hesitation, but with great conviction, that I must agree with Vsummer1. Outpatient counseling isn't going to do it this time. You are telling him that his behavior will only get him a little "counseling" which he will ditch just like he did before. Counseling? For attempted murder? You're not seeing this clearly.

That boy cannot come back into your home. The psychological and physical trauma that you are allowing to yourself and your minor children will only esculate.

Next time you won't be there to stop it. At the risk of alienating an online "friendship" I have to say that the end results of this is going to be someone's funeral. The only question left is which one of your family members is it going to be?

Jail or lock-down psych.
Oct 23, '02
Occupation: RN, MS home health Joined: Aug '02; Posts: 7,472; Likes: 49

Thanks for replying youda. Hubby is due home earlier tonight so we can discuss it more. He worked almost a double yesterday, he is also an RN, so he was whipped yesterday. Heck your not going to alienate me...............no problem........thanks for caring enough to respond to my problem. I really do appreciate it....

renerian

teenagers/need advice about violence - page 3

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