Pushing drugs for the Man bother anyone? - page 10

Hello All. I'm a newbie taking prereqs for a BSN. I just have one big nagging concern :uhoh3: keeping me from fully committing to the program. I want to help people, but I feel that the... Read More

  1. by   somebody
    Quote from cardiacRN2006
    Oh gees, now you've got something against donuts???

    Uh...well...since you asked....yes...I do have something against donuts. They are made of highly processed flour and sugar which was likely treated with pesticides and genetically modified. Then preservatives are added so it will still look like it is actually food for years. Throw in some food coloring so it will remind you what color nutritious real food like fresh fruit and veggies is. MMM MMM nothing like eating something completely devoid of any nutritional value and loaded with dead and clearly harmful stuff.

    I guess they could be good as paper weights.:trout:
  2. by   GadgetRN71
    If I'm not mistaken, last spring it was vegatables making people sick(E-coli tainted lettuce and spinach, I think) or was the Ecoli supposed to be good for us, being "organic'' and all? Even so called natural foods and remedies are not always danger free. The FDA doesn't regulate herbals so they can in fact be more dangerous than regular drugs..

    Give me a preservative laden donut anyday over poop tainted spinach!

    Signed, WitchyRN( spokeswoman and personal flunky for "The Man")

    PS..Maybe "The Man" is Homer Simpson! ( UMMMMM, Donuts!)
    Last edit by GadgetRN71 on Nov 12, '07
  3. by   somebody
    Oh right the FDA is there to protect us helpless citizens. And of course they are not at all influenced by the same pen-giving pharmy reps. Synthetic drugs good....herbal remedies bad. Tobacco good....marijuana bad. God bless the FDA for keeping us all safe!
  4. by   kakamegamama
    RE: RNPerDiem's post---I currently live in a poor country and even though they have allopathic medicine it is about 60 years behind. So, I know what you mean first hand. I have tales that could curl toes about the current health care system here (that's one reason I'm here by the way--to work towards changing that system) & I agree w/you & Baptized by Fire wholeheartedly. I also applaud Somebody for recognizing this is an issue for him/her. Start working through those things now & don't wait until you face them in the real world. Ethical decision making in nursing is one of the hardest types of decisions we make, sometimes on a daily basis.
  5. by   ERRNTraveler
    First there's a problem with the free pens, then there's a problem with the free food, NOW "somebody" is taking a stab at DONUTS?!? If I cannot have free pens, food, & donuts then WHAT IS THE POINT IN GOING ON???

    P.S. I am not overweight, I do exercise regularly, and am perfectly healthy, BUT I do recognize the value in a good donut every now & then..... and chocolate during "that time" of the month...... and Oreos once in a while.... and the occasional order of french fries.... and DRUGS for my patients......
  6. by   Tweety
    Well excuse me for being an idealist and caring. I guess I should just keep my mouth shut and not rock the boat.
    Gee, here I was encouraging people to take you seriously have and a serious discussion. You're not helping me out here. Remember when you rock the boat, as you admit you do, you're going to have to be prepared for what you get, rather than a follow the leader type of agreement.

    Drugs for everyone! More TV and donuts!
    Now you're talking!
    Last edit by Tweety on Nov 12, '07
  7. by   Virgo_RN
    Yes, it's true that diet and exercise can go a long way in preventing disease. But, I see an awful lot of perfectly healthy people; active, fit, good eating habits, who end up in the hospital with a heart attack. Why? Because you cannot take out the role of genetics. Granted, these people are in the minority, but I see them often enough to know that despite my healthy choices, I am not immune to illness or injury. When you have an occluded coronary artery, acupuncture is not going to fix it. You need surgery. You need Western medicine. Aspirin and beta blockers have been shown to reduce long term mortality associated with MI. I have no problem giving these meds to my patients, and I would have no problem taking them if I had an MI. And I am not someone who just takes pills. I would not take a statin to lower my cholesterol. I would try diet and exercise and other safer medications before taking a statin, and that would be an absolute last resort. If I was in atrial fibrillation, I would take coumadin. Coumadin is a relatively safe drug, and I'd rather take it than have a stroke (of course, I'd rather attempt a cardioversion than live in afib, and I'd try a cardioversion BEFORE taking an antiarrhythmic). If I were a type 2 diabetic, I would try diet and exercise, but if that didn't work, you can bet I'd use insulin and have no qualms about it. I have seen the effects of poorly controlled blood sugar, and I don't want that for myself or anyone I love (or anyone at all for that matter; it ain't pretty). If I am in the hospital with sepsis, you'd better give me those antibiotics!!!! And do not withhold that pain medication from me either.

    I do agree that polypharmacy is a problem. We have these little old ladies on a zillion different medications that aren't helping them, and in fact, may be harming them. Granny's on five different blood pressure medications, gets up in the middle of the night to pee, falls and breaks her hip, and it's all downhill from there.

    I'm a believer in the blending of different traditions. I think massage has tremendous therapeutic value and should be considered a legitimate medical treatment. I think nutritional therapy, chinese medicine, acupuncture, energy work, all have value. But that doesn't mean that I dismiss the value that Western medicine also has.

    Recently a dear friend was diagnosed with a congenital heart defect and had open heart surgery. Homeopathy was not going to fix that hole in her heart, and herbal medicine was not going to adequately address her postop pain. She needed that surgery, and she needed those pharmaceuticals, and no amount of diet and exercise was going to somehow magically reverse her congenital heart defect. However, during her post op recovery she had some energy work done, learned some breathing techniques from a Tai Chi master, and integrated nutritional therapy and other non-allopathic, non-pharmaceutical therapies into the whole treatment plan. This is what I would like to see more of in health care today. Yes, use those pharmaceuticals when needed, and integrate other therapies when the patient will benefit from them. I don't think they have to be mutually exclusive, and it drives me nuts that so many people think they are.

    So to the original poster, I don't believe in throwing medications at illnesses. But I do believe that medications can have tremendous value when applied properly. I also believe that alternative and complementary therapies have value. For me, nursing is holistic; I'm treating a whole person, and there is so much more to that than administering medications. I wish that "allopathic" and "Western medicine" weren't such dirty words to some people.

    My advice, since you're just starting on your career path, is to learn all you can about pharmacology and try and keep an open mind. Though they can do harm, drugs are not inherently evil. They are simply tools in the toolbox that includes many therapies. And before you reject anything, you should at least know what it is you're rejecting.

    Have you looked into holistic nursing? Check out: http://www.ahna.org/home/home.html
    Last edit by Virgo_RN on Nov 12, '07
  8. by   nursemike
    Quote from somebody
    Well excuse me for being an idealist and caring. I guess I should just keep my mouth shut and not rock the boat. Drugs for everyone! More TV and donuts! Hooray for the Man!
    I'm a nurse. I work with nurses. I know a lot of nurses. I feel safe in saying that, on the whole, nurses are the most idealistic pragmatists I've ever met. Some of the best nurses I know are boat-rockers. Usually because not rocking the boat hasn't gotten the result they're after, but sometimes just because the waves are pretty.

    I'm not saying this as a personal criticism, but as an observation about our society: We Americans still have a bit of a Puritanical streak. As lazy and even self-destructive as we can be, I think many of us also buy into the notion of "No pain, no gain." So you get people who don't smoke who think smoking is a crime against humanity, people who equate obesity with lack of character, people who think it's their business whether someone else has sex in anything but the missionary position in order to procreate.

    What makes matters worse is that the Puritanical view isn't wrong. Not entirely, anyway. A little bit of abstinence can save lives. But a little bit of indulgence isn't necessarily evil, either. A lot of people who eat donuts live long, healthy, fulfilling lives. (Me, I'm 51, and I have probably already consumed my lifetime allotment, so no more donuts for me. Well, maybe just one more. Or two. Same for cigarettes.)

    I don't know a nurse whose judgement has ever been swayed by free pens or free lunch, or even free beer. Those goodies are a bit like mixing potassium supplements with OJ--they make the education, which is needed--a bit more palatable.

    So, yes, we need to lead healthier lifestyles--or, at least, I need to. But before we rush to embrace a life of asceticism and/or abandon Western medicine on a wholesale basis, we might contemplate that a hundred years or so ago, when most people did hard, physical work for a living, ate very little processed foods, and didn't have access to modern medicine, they didn't live substantially longer than we do.

    My grandmother ate bacon and eggs for breakfast nearly every day of her life. When she died, of cardiomyopathy, her carotid arteries were occluded 90% on one side and 60% on the other, with noticeable neurological deficits after two CVAs and one MI. So, yes, her lifestyle killed her, about a month before her 93rd birthday.
    Last edit by nursemike on Nov 12, '07 : Reason: I guess I could've just posted my sig line.
  9. by   Virgo_RN
    I also want to point out, "Somebody", that I find your attitude quite condescending. You appear to be under the mistaken impression that you are enlightening all of us with your knowledge. As if I haven't heard all of this before. I was raised as a vegetarian. We only ate organic. I was "deprived" as a child of processed foods with preservatives, sugary cereals, fast food, and yes, donuts. You are not saying anything I haven't heard before.

    You seem very judgmental, yet you are just beginning your education and don't have the knowledge to back up your judgment. I would suggest you keep an open mind and learn before you start judging the nursing profession.

    Why did I become a nurse? Because I am an idealist and I care. I think you'll find that to be the case with many of the nurses here.
    Last edit by Virgo_RN on Nov 12, '07
  10. by   leslie :-D
    i don't find "somebody" condescending but rather, an ultra idealist.
    her dogmatism has obscured the realities of what actually is.
    as mom used to say, "everything in moderation".
    that includes a healthy dose of humility.

  11. by   ERRNTraveler
    Quote from earle58
    i don't find "somebody" condescending but rather, an ultra idealist.
    her dogmatism has obscured the realities of what actually is.
    as mom used to say, "everything in moderation".
    that includes a healthy dose of humility.

    and.... DONUTS! :spin:
  12. by   Hellllllo Nurse
    As for people being responsible for their own illnesses d/t lifestyle, habits-

    I worked inpt hospice for years. We had a lot of "healthy" people dying in that place- olympic athletes, life-long vegetarians, joggers, etc in there dying of cancer.
  13. by   FireStarterRN
    My mother was a somewhat preachy health enthusiast who kept in good shape and was rather rigid with her diet. Died of a brain anerysm at age 62. My Aunt (her sister)is a big time, obnoxious healthfood extremist and she claims to have all sorts of maladies and her husband died recently in in 70s of cancer, inspite of her ultra rigid and obnoxiously preachy approach to diet that is fanatic in nature.