Pushing drugs for the Man bother anyone?

somebody · Nov 17, 2007

No one has stated that, or anything similar. What has been objected to is the blanket statement that nurses are automatons who never question and just "push drugs for the man."

uhhh...pardon me, but who ever said "nurses are automatons who never question and "just push drugs for the man""? I certainly didn't and certainly don't think so. There are clearly many nurses who are well aware of what is going on, think critically, and make decisions accordingly.

There are obviously, however quite a few who are equally unaware of what is going on, or who know but are in denial or agreement with it. For the latter group I double dare you to watch these brief videos that I just found on exactly what my OP was about. They are fascinating and terrifying at the same time.

I am not faulting anyone. I think you nurses have an extremely tough job and I admire you for what you are doing.

http://www.consciousmedianetwork.com/video/110707.htm

somebody · Nov 17, 2007

It's a sad commentary on our times--or maybe it's just my times--that The Colbert Report and The Daily Show on Comedy Central are fast becoming my most trusted source for news, but one of them recently interviewed a doctor who'd written a book advocating a blend of Western and alternative medicine. A lot of what he was saying was very much in keeping with nursing values. When I assess a closed-head trauma patient, bowel motility may not be my highest priority, but it's one of the things I'm looking at, along with skin integrity, respiration, and every other system. Nurses really do treat the whole patient, and from what I've seen, a lot of today's doctors are more attuned to that, as well.
I work in a not-for-profit, teaching hospital, which in many ways seems to be the best environment for hospital nursing. Even so, we are very much dependant on Medicare, and what they are willing to pay has a profound effect on our bottom line. We can't lose money indefinitely, so we have to look at cost.
The OP's link to youtube told of some pretty alarming statistics. I don't know that I totally believe them, but I agree with the general principle that a lot of patients are getting less than adequate care. I don't see this as a result of some great conspiracy--I think the biggest single problem is nurses and doctors who are overworked. Patients could relieve some of that by taking better care of themselves before they become patients, but demographically, we are an aging society, and as boomers become seniors, we're going to see a lot more people needing treatment.
I don't think the OP is completely out there. There are real problems in healthcare, and one of them is that we're so slammed with acute care that most of us have precious little time for primary prevention. We're up to our butts in alligators. But, as a working nurse, I can't discount my experiences, like giving a scheduled dose of Coreg and watching a telemetry monitor go from a little worrisome to like the pt was on a pacemaker. Or seeing Ativan break a seizure. Or seeing doctors and fellow nurses working hard to save a patient I thought I was about to lose. I have advocated with doctors to get a patient more meds, not because someone gave me a pen, but usually because the patient was in intractable pain, or a couple of times for BP, and sometimes because the patient knows what they've been taking and what's worked best for them--for example, you learn pretty quickly to listen to diabetics about their home schedules, since some of them are really on top of their conditions (not all, but some).
It really is a shame we aren't more successful with primary prevention, but speaking from my own experience, it's very often not that the information to promote wellness isn't available. I think most Americans know what they should do to be healthier. Unfortunately, the time to begin is when you are young and immortal. Crap you seemed to get away with (like my sig line) when you're under 40, comes back to haunt you when you're over 50. So, by the time many of us in acute care see people, our focus has to be managing the immediate crisis, then working on secondary prevention, to avoid or delay the onset of complications and co-morbidities. And meds play a big part in that.
A lot of the measures to prevent a second MI are the same as to prevent a first MI, but aspirin and metoprolol can help, too.
In my practice, I see a lot of strokes--mostly ischemic. A couple have been young women who used birth control pills and smoked. Rather more have been guys my age whose main exercise was bowling. But most are people who've lived 70 years or more in decent health, then thrown a clot r/t chronic A-fib, or a DVT after a broken hip. Many of these people can benefit from anti-coagulant therapy. It's not about making money, it's about extending lives. And making money.

Thanks for the thoughtful reply. It took me years to overcome my shock from discovering the depth of malevolence in the corporate agenda. But I finally have realized beyond a shadow of a doubt that it is in fact a deliberate and very well orchestrated conspiracy by a small group of elite. The worst of it is that the medical system is only one area being taken over. Make no mistake that they (yes the Man) will not stop until they have control of the whole world! It is called the New World Order and it is not a fairy tale. You can research it for yourself as I have. Marshal law will be declaired very soon unless we the people wake up NOW and stop them. For those who flame me, I forgive you because I understand how you feel.

"If the people knew what we have done, they would chase us down the street and lynch us."

-George H.W. Bush (senior)

Almabella · Nov 17, 2007

As I've said to all of my hippy friends who wonder why I'm working in a hospital instead of at some holistic clinic in the community, I believe in what I am doing. These people in the hospital who are sick either because of their own lifestyle choices or because of their bad luck, they need help NOW. They do not need someone judging them for their choices or pointing out what they did wrong. They need relief from pain. They need relief from suffering. They are hurting, they are frightened, and some of them will die from their illness. I help these people. I am passionate about that. When you come on this forum criticizing the nursing profession without any experience to back up your assumptions, yes, you're going to piss me off.
If you want to try to change the world, I'm all for that. But if you want people to listen to your message, I suggest you work on your delivery.

Really well put NancyNurse! I think this is the crux of the problem and the cause of many of the responses here. Unfortunately, a topic worthy of serious debate has been squandered because of this.

teeituptom, BSN, RN · Nov 17, 2007

Uhhhh...my husband is working as a handyman while finishing up his 5 year Master's in Engineering program. Nothing wrong at all with being a handyman. He makes as much money as I do, and he's working part time. Just a thought.

Honest work is honest work, whats the problem

teeituptom, BSN, RN · Nov 17, 2007

No one has stated that, or anything similar. What has been objected to is the blanket statement that nurses are automatons who never question and just "push drugs for the man."

Last night was my night for pushing Dilaudid, all totally without effect. Simply amazing

Bicycleboy · Nov 18, 2007

At my school, I'd say there was a little bit of indoctrination, along with a lot of education, and what indoctrination there was had little to do with promoting the status quo. Rather, we heard about the issues that were of interest to our instructors, as nurses. This included nursing activism (to promote better conditions for nurses, which in turn leads to better outcomes for patients), holistic care (medical model vs. nursing model) and even alternative medicine. My instructors were very excited about community health and primary prevention, and some of our clinical rotations reflected that, but the majority of our clinical experience was focused on bedside, acute-care nursing--and rightly so. There are many directions one can go in nursing, but med passes, dressing changes, skin integrity and ADL's are, IMHO, where it all starts. Generally speaking, the people who need nurses are on the way to the hospital, in the hospital, or recently out of the hospital.
It's very hard for any nurse dragging his/her butt out the door after a hard shift to hear that it's not about the patient. If I couldn't make a decent living in nursing, I'd have to do something else, but if all I cared about was making a living, there are easier ways to do it.
I still have enough radical in me to be wary of The Man. I'm practical enough to realize that our healthcare system is far from perfect, even though I'm by no means sure how to make it better. It is a business, but again, if it was only about the money, there are easier ways to make money.

I must say that I understand why the brainwashing occurs. If we did not have a common knowledge base, and certain ways of doing and learning, things would be too chaotic. Nobody would now what the other was doing.

I have found nursing school to be the hardest thing I have ever done, it also has been the most rewarding. For all the brainwashing that goes on there is a lot education that has also taught me to question what I am learning and to think about it, and not just perform by rote.

I understand what you are sating Mike. I don't have the solution, but there is a way to make things better. You said med passes and dressing changes are a part of it, and I can't agree with you more.

IMO for you, me and other nurses of all types it is not entirely about the money. For the hospital system it is about the money. If it were not there would be none of the mega industries surrounding it as well as the hospitals themselves.

I don't think nurses in general are greedy and don't care, but many of them are part of the system whether they like it or not.

EmmaG, RN · Nov 18, 2007

uhhh...pardon me, but who ever said "nurses are automatons who never question and "just push drugs for the man""? I certainly didn't and certainly don't think so. There are clearly many nurses who are well aware of what is going on, think critically, and make decisions accordingly.
There are obviously, however quite a few who are equally unaware of what is going on, or who know but are in denial or agreement with it. For the latter group I double dare you to watch these brief videos that I just found on exactly what my OP was about. They are fascinating and terrifying at the same time.
I am not faulting anyone. I think you nurses have an extremely tough job and I admire you for what you are doing.
http://www.consciousmedianetwork.com/video/110707.htm
http://www.consciousmedianetwork.com/video/110707.htm

Oh, I see. We just don't know any better. How utterly arrogant and patronizing. NancyNurse was dead on.

It is called the New World Order and it is not a fairy tale. You can research it for yourself as I have. Marshal law will be declaired very soon unless we the people wake up NOW and stop them. For those who flame me, I forgive you because I understand how you feel.

Oh. My. God. You're one of them.

Ok. I'll play along. Nothing good on TV anyway.

Marshal law will be declaired very soon unless we the people wake up NOW and stop them.

Martial law, where? And who are these "them" you speak of, and how do "we the people" stop them?

Agnus · Nov 18, 2007

Well, I guess that's how I interpreted this post. No offense Agnus; I'm not trying to pick on you. I just disagree with this sentiment.

Almabella,

That is ok no one said you had to agree. This whole tread would be pretty boring if we all agreed and it would have ended long ago.

Agnus · Nov 18, 2007

I guess we have to surrender now. Our cover has been blown.

Well I for one am not giving up that easily! I will fight to the end. Who is with me? There is no way we can allow the public to tell us that we can't take away their miraculous vitamins and force them to take DANGERGOUS drugs. Never never will I give up my constitutional right to force dangerous medicine on you.

Bicycleboy · Nov 18, 2007

I do not mean this facetiously. You are still in nursing school! If this really is how you feel you can find another line of work where you are not compromising your values. Or are you really after the bucks too.

By saying "I do not mean this facetiously" makes it more the like.

You assume what my values are when I did not mention them. I would not invest this much time on my studies to be a volunteer nurse. I am definitely in it for the money among other things, and I have no problem pushing a med cart around because it will eventually get me what I want. Eventually a med cart will be a foreign object to me, but I don't mind taking a ride on it to get to where I want to go.

Seriously thought think about it. You have not invested very much yet in this you might consider a better match. How can you be so sure that you won't ever get caught up in the part of this you don't approve of?

Another assumption. How would you know how much I have invested? Is it not possible to work in health care and not have to be a nurse as a minimum requirement?

Working in the illness care is definitely what I intend to do as a nurse. But being a nurse is only a small part of what I plan to do. Nursing is a vehicle to get me where I want to go. That being said I will always be a nurse no matter what other professions nursing allows me to pursue

You are already likely putting yourself in debt to this profession, with the cost of your education. It gets worse.

I see a pattern here, is this what happened to you?

My nursing tuition and books are free, and I even get a bit of extra money to spend on indiscretions. The best part is that if you live anywhere near me you are paying for my tuition and books, and will continue to for the next little while. It pays to consider my wife and I the number one priority.

You made a remark about needing to see it from the inside. You are not seeing it from the inside as a student.

Consider looking at things through another lens, it may reduce the need to assume so much.

Is the minimum requirement to work in health care a nursing degree? Or is it possible I can be on the inside and not have to be a nurse?

Editorial Team / Admin · Nov 18, 2007

Thread closed for moderator review.