Nurses children and vaccinations, how do you feel? - page 10
I am on another forum that is very anti-vaccinations for children (or anyone for that matter), and it got me thinking how do nurses and other healthcare workers feel about vaccinations and... Read More
Jan 2, '08Joined: Jul '06; Posts: 1,813; Likes: 1,630Quote from Angie O'PlastyThe HPV mandate idea has since been rejected, and I think it should be voluntary BUT offered to males as well. But do remember that people can and do get HPV or other sexually transmitted diseases from rape and sexual abuse, and what if you married a man who has been married before, and he was never with anyone else but his wife was and gave him something? It's a complicated thing.I feel the same way about this one. I can see where from a public health standpoint it may help, since there will always be those who continue to have early unprotected sex. However, as you said, HPV is quite preventable without the vaccine. At my last physical, I was offered the HPV vaccine but did not take it--why would I need to take it if I'm going to wait until I'm married to have sex? Totally unnecessary and I'd rather not be the guinea pig for such a new vaccine. Like many of you, I am generally pro-vaccination but am leery of the newer ones until they have been out a while and shown to be safe and effective.
Jan 2, '08Joined: Jul '06; Posts: 1,813; Likes: 1,630Quote from motorcycle mamaI'm not a big Neil Young fan, so I did not know that about him. Might it have contributed to his having two disabled children as well?this reminded me of my favorite person and musician, Neil Young, who was vaccinated against polio yet he contracted it when he was a little boy. He had to reteach himself how to walk, he is emaciated from the disease and I imagine polio was partly responsible for the violent seizures he has, now. Maybe he took the live vaccine, I don't know. But in his case he might have been better off not having a vaccine at all.
He could possibly have been a victim of the Cutter incident, where children were given insufficiently weakened polio vaccine. Here's a book about it.
Which reminds me, I should go to the library tomorrow and see if they have it as I've wanted to read it for some time.
Jan 2, '08Joined: Feb '07; Posts: 2,560; Likes: 1,326I vaccinated my chlidren, but I was very angry that my pediatrician didn't give me the option of one of the vaccines (not sure which one), could be given mercury free.
I only discovered this when a friend, who has a son the same age as my twins, stated that her pediatrician gave her the option...had it even been offered, I would have elected to go mercury free (unless that is all her practice gave...I'll probably never know).
I personally, think the entire autism/vaccine connection is simply some children are not going to react the same to vaccinations, and some will have permanent effects from them...just like not all drugs have the same reactions in all people, and some have very rare reactions.
Millions of children receive them every year, and have no side effects...however, that is of no comfort to a mother who walked into the ped's office with a perfect child, and then a couple of days later, noticed that something wasn't right.
To me, it doesn't take an MD to put two and two together.
Jan 2, '08Joined: Sep '03; Posts: 12,735; Likes: 1,812Quote from judyblueeyesI don't think it is fair to imply that some parents of children with autism aren't being honest when they say they didn't notice any signs of autism shortly after birth. Although many parents of children with autism (myself included) can look back and identify very early concerns, there is a specific subset of autism where the children are developing normally until 18-24 months and then start losing previously acquired skills. This age range and the fact that kids are getting vaccinations at the same time may account for some of the speculation about vaccines and autism. I realize that whether there is or is not cause and effect is a matter of disagreement at the moment, but that doesn't mean anyone is being dishonest.That supposed "old stock" is certainly long "out of date" by now. You doc certainly should not be giving out of date vac's.
Like most parents who are honest about it, my son's autism was apparant shortly if not immediately after birth and had nothing to do with his 12-18 month vac's.
Jan 2, '08Joined: Jul '06; Posts: 1,813; Likes: 1,630Some of the "vaccines cause autism" people have said that the doctor said, "If you don't give your kid this shot today, I will report you to CPS" (child protective services). Is it true that doctors do that? I find it hard to believe when they see so many kids who are really abused.
Many of them believes that the medical profession is in on a conspiracy to produce a generation of autistic people, so drug companies can come up with new products. I find that VERY hard to believe, especially because whenever I hear about someone with a really severely autistic child (including an adult child - I know such a family whose child is now in his 60s), at least one parent is almost always a physician.
I'm talking about people like this: http://dir.salon.com/story/mwt/featu.../09/27/autism/
The original link said, "Here's a story about autism that will never be in the mainstream press because it isn't all warm and fuzzy." When the comments were up, one of them pointed out that the writer at no time expresses any love for his daughter or joy in her presence, and this is true so be forewarned. BTW, to my knowledge, vaccines are NOT mentioned in this story.
Whenever I get flamed about advocating institutionalization, I post this story and it usually shuts them up really fast. There really are situations where a family is better off if that person is not living with them.
It is true that the P component of the old DPT vaccine did cause neurological damage in a small percentage of people who took it, and I know of a family who had a child affected by this; she had a seizure disorder and was probably mildly autistic, and died from a seizure at age 24. People who have this reaction should never have DPT again, nor should their first degree relatives (parent, sibling, child).
I can think of several people I grew up with in the 1970s who I believe were on the autistic spectrum, and a number of adults as well, so we can't blame modern vaccines for this.
Jan 2, '08Joined: Nov '06; Posts: 20,715; Likes: 23,951Quote from rph3664However, the pertussis component of old (the "P" of DTP) has since been replaced with safer acellular pertussis (aP, as in DTaP) and now it's rare to see anything more than a little soreness and/or low-grade fever. So I don't think the need for the entire family to abstain from the DTaP is there anymore. DTP is not used in the US anymore.It is true that the P component of the old DPT vaccine did cause neurological damage in a small percentage of people who took it, and I know of a family who had a child affected by this; she had a seizure disorder and was probably mildly autistic, and died from a seizure at age 24. People who have this reaction should never have DPT again, nor should their first degree relatives (parent, sibling, child).
Jan 2, '08Occupation: RN Joined: Nov '99; Posts: 2,950; Likes: 619If you are one who doesn't "believe in" vacination so be it. You are not going to be persuaded by me or anyone else.
This brings to mind I had a patient in the hospital with pertussus. the parents did not believe in vaccinations and stated that their peidiatrition (from another community about 200 miles away) supported them and agreed.
Then the Dad said I bet you have never seen a child admitted with one of the diseases they vaccinate for. I said I did. He asked how recently. I said today. He seemed very surprised that there was a child there this very day with such a disease and it did not result from having had the vaccine.. I did not point out the obvious. Yes, he did know his child's dx(sorry my sucks today. Guess my brain's speller is on vacation)
Jan 2, '08Occupation: Medical Imaging RN~Special Procedures CT Specialty: 33 year(s) of experience in OB, M/S, HH, Medical Imaging RN ; Joined: Aug '04; Posts: 6,708; Likes: 1,449I don't know about vaccinations now a days in Holland but back in the 50's when I was born we did not get vaccines. I went to grade school here and when my parents registered me for school I had to go to the doctor and get all of my vaccinations before I was allowed to go to school. My Mother did not want me to have any vaccinations but my Father took me because he knew we couldn't fight the system.
That's how I look at vaccinations in regards to my grandbabies. What they have to have they get. I do believe DTaP, MMR, HibB are all necessary vaccines and do save lives but I do not think that chickenpox vaccines or flu vaccines are appropriate for healthy children. If we keep vaccinating everything how will their immune systems ever build any strength?Last edit by DutchgirlRN on Jan 2, '08
Jan 2, '08Joined: Mar '06; Posts: 345; Likes: 162I am an RN and am selective with my kids' vaccines. Some of them are unneccesary. My baby wasn't about to have unprtected sex or use a dirty needle at two days old so we are waiting on the Hep B shot. Also, flu shots have thimerosal and I read that it is enough mercury that it could harm a 250 lb person, what would it do to a baby? Plus you can't predict what flu strain will be going around each year. And what about the research that shows high measles titers in kids with autism?I know that many ARE important and we get those. Just not too many on one day, and not the unneccessary ones. I am related to a child with autism and it is very real to me, what the risks are.If anyone is curious, pick up a copy of "what your doctor won't tell you about children's vaccinations" by Stephanie Cave MD, visit 909shot.com, and search the VAERS database (Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System). If you read some facts that I have read, you may see the benefits of putting your child on an alternate schedule (some delayed, not 6 shots on one day etc).One thing - I don't think the anti-vax moms are against all medical people... I think they are angry with the pharmaceutical companies who create them and them market them, and give big $$$to docs to push them. The docs get $ from the drug companies for each vaccine they give. It is a shady system and not fair to parents that the shots "have" to be given when the drug company says so. In a nutshell, I am a medical professional and know the benefits of vaccines. But I also know that it is dangerous for anyone to trust their pediatricians blindly without researching what is being injected into their babies. It is a smart, healthy move for a parent to research the vaccination issue and decide what is best for them.
Jan 2, '08Joined: Nov '06; Posts: 20,715; Likes: 23,951Quote from MommyandRNMercury-free flu shots are available, and I don't allow my son to get any flu vax except those.Also, flu shots have thimerosal and I read that it is enough mercury that it could harm a 250 lb person.
I think they are angry with the pharmaceutical companies who create them and them market them, and give big $$$to docs to push them. The docs get $ from the drug companies for each vaccine they give. It is a shady system and not fair to parents that the shots "have" to be given when the drug company says so.
Jan 2, '08Joined: Mar '06; Posts: 345; Likes: 162Mercury-free flu shots are available, and I don't allow my son to get any flu vax except those.
As for the pharmaceutical companies, yes its true. The clinics that give required vax are a different story I guess. But yes, the new vaccines are marketed to docs by reps the same way that new prescription drugs are.
Jan 2, '08Joined: Nov '07; Posts: 518; Likes: 1,360Quote from MommyandRNActually you can make a pretty good guess. Worldwide sampling and epidemiologic trending allow us to make a reasonably educated guess on the dominant strain in any given season. Occassionally it is not accurate; most of the time it is. And regardless, there is some cross-immunity conferred by the vaccine against other strains.Plus you can't predict what flu strain will be going around each year.
Quote from MommyandRNAh, that damn Lancet article rears its ugly head again.And what about the research that shows high measles titers in kids with autism?
By way of background for anyone who isn't familiar with this subject: In 1998, the Lancet published a study that purported to show a statistical association between the MMR vaccine and autism. Since then there have been multiple studies and a re-examination of the original data. Not only has the new data showed that the there is zero association, but 10 of the 13 authors of the original Lancet article retracted their conclusion.
Every major medical organization dealing with vaccines in the U.S. has issued consensus statements that MMR has no connection with autism. Zero. There is no risk.
Jan 2, '08Joined: Nov '07; Posts: 518; Likes: 1,360Quote from MommyandRNWhich new vaccines are you talking about? The only new vaccine I am aware of that is not in the mandatory panel for school attendence is Gardasil. Yes, they are marketing that pretty heavily, but probably not for much longer because all indications is that it will become mandatory for adolescent girls soon.As for the pharmaceutical companies, yes its true. The clinics that give required vax are a different story I guess. But yes, the new vaccines are marketed to docs by reps the same way that new prescription drugs are.
As for the rest, I have never heard or seen marketing. Why would you market a mandatory vaccination that people can get free in most areas?