Nurse manager said O2 concentrator can be used with BMV?

Nurses General Nursing

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He was doing CPR renewal with us.

This can't be true,or is it?

He also said he never heard that you need at least 15L of oxygen to inflate the bag.

He said 2L of O2 is fine.

Private duty supervisors really have me scratching my head.

I actually saw a nurse chart that she used 2L of oxygen from the concentrator for the Ambubag.

I work with trach/vent kiddos in the home. We do not have to be PALS trained.

What is the minimum oxygen you need for a BMV?

I read 10L. I also read that you can't use a concentrator. That takes time to heat up,and you do not have time in an emergency for that.

Specializes in critical care, ER,ICU, CVSURG, CCU.
WHat if the 02 concentrator was off though?

Doesn't it take some time after being turned on to produce oxygen?

Not ten mins, and at worst for a few mins. You are ventilating at room air, 21%, which is better than no ventilation at all...

Why does everyone keep repeating that ventilations with no O2 are better than no ventilations at all?

DUH.

I know that.

I am just thinking if a pt sats drop to 0% in 5 seconds it would be easier to just bag them with oxygen so they could get back up over 95% a lot faster.

Why does everyone keep repeating that ventilations with no O2 are better than no ventilations at all?

Okay miss sassy pants because you asked this.:eek:

What is the minimum oxygen you need for a BMV?

So it sounded like you were unclear on how the ambu bag works with and without supplemental O2. This was compounded by statements about raising paCO2 with too low a flow of O2 to the bag and how oxygen increases perfusion. Both of which were a bit off the mark. We're trying to help you as best as we can with what you are giving us. You also were concerned about how long it takes a concentrator to get up to speed. It wasn't clear that a standard tank was available so we were trying to tell you that any O2 is better than no O2 so that wait time really isn't an issue if a concentrator is all you have. You can successfully resuscitate someone with room air. O2 is beneficial, of course, but it probably isn't the thing that will make the most difference. So let's take it down to the absolute bottom line. O2 from a tank at 10-15 lpm will provide maximal O2 concentration in an emergency situation. If all you have is a concentrator crank it up to it's maximum flow (probably between 5-8 lpm) and don't worry about it how much O2 you are getting because it's highly variable and probably the least of your worries. Is this what you wanted to know?:geek:

Specializes in Critical Care.

Oxygen concentrators produce oxygen immediately, but do not reach full capability for usually at least a few minutes since it can take a few cycles for the compressor to build up enough pressure to completely saturate the zeolite with nitrogen. Many have light indicators to tell you when it's fully warmed up and producing air that is 95% or more oxygen, typically starting at 70% when first turned on.

The BV device can work with any amount of supplemental oxygen including room air. BVMs typically use an reservoir for supplemental oxygen so that the administered oxygen can exceed the flow rate during inhalation, like a non-rebreather in order to give oxygen only from the reservoir, the flow into the reservoir has to be at least equal to the minute ventilation being provided to the patient, if the patient's minute ventilation is 10 liters then the flow into the reservoir has to be at least 10 liters per minute.

As a side note, and I know this is going to make a lot of people's heads explode, but you don't have to use flows of at least 10 or 12 liters or more with a non-rebreather to make it flush out the exhaled CO2, that's what "non-rebreather" means; the mask has two valves that control the flow of exhaled CO2 so that it is not mixed with oxygen in the reservoir.

Specializes in Private Duty Pediatrics.
... As a side note, and I know this is going to make a lot of people's heads explode, but you don't have to use flows of at least 10 or 12 liters or more with a non-rebreather to make it flush out the exhaled CO2, that's what "non-rebreather" means; the mask has two valves that control the flow of exhaled CO2 so that it is not mixed with oxygen in the reservoir.

As I understand it, the high flow to a non-rebreather is necessary to inflate the reservoir. Since the patient cannot pull in room air - it all must come from the tank - you need enough volume delivered.

I saw what happened to my Mom when her tank ran dry while she was on a non-rebreather. As the reservoir deflated, her SpO2 plummeted.

Specializes in Critical Care.
As I understand it, the high flow to a non-rebreather is necessary to inflate the reservoir. Since the patient cannot pull in room air - it all must come from the tank - you need enough volume delivered.

I saw what happened to my Mom when her tank ran dry while she was on a non-rebreather. As the reservoir deflated, her SpO2 plummeted.

The patient can actually still breathe in room air even when the reservoir bag is empty since NRBs are required to have a non-valved vent in addition to the one way exhalation valve to prevent asphyxiation in case the reservoir bag becomes depleted.

With an empty reservoir bag, a NRB essentially becomes a simple mask, with the patient only getting the amount of oxygen flowing into the bag during inhalation, rather than inhaling the accumulated concentrated oxygen in the bag.

I was referring to the belief that the purpose of a high flow rate of oxygen is to purge the bag of exhaled CO2.

Specializes in 15 years in ICU, 22 years in PACU.

There was a thread about COPD pts on this some years back and the answer i got was that you need 10L of oxygen for an Ambubag.

https://allnurses.com/general-nursing-discussion/ambu-bag-with-533590.html

After reading the thread referred to by OP, it seems OP has had trouble with BVM for some time (2015).

Any patient in arrest needs as much oxygen as possible.

Or so i thought so until today.

Questioning the use of oxygen on a COPD pt in cardiac arrest boggles the mind.

After reading the thread referred to by OP, it seems OP has had trouble with BVM for some time (2015).

Questioning the use of oxygen on a COPD pt in cardiac arrest boggles the mind.

Except if you had read clearly you could see that I was not the OP for that thread.

I only asked the question(in the previous thread) if Ambubag can be used without oxygen. Never saw it done that way before.

Prior to 2015,I have only used oxygen,and even then none from an oxygen concentrator,when using an Ambubag.

The OP was my first time hearing about an oxygen concentrator being acceptable for Ambubag use.

One,because I previously thought they take some time to produce oxygen.

Two,because most that i see in the home only go up to 8L/min at best.

Besides,as I stated,most cases have full oxygen tanks so no need to use a concentrator.

I'd searched the internet and came up with nothing.

We do not have manuals sitting around for concentrators either. We barely have any sitting around for just about any piece of equipment in the home.

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