Never understood nursing - page 9
I know this is my first post on your forum, and I am a guest here. But I hopefully can get some answers to a problem that has seemed to plague me since I started practicing in medicine. I am hoping... Read More
Aug 16, '06Quoted by PACPhD: "They played passive aggressive for years, not giving my cardiac patients nitro or morphine for up to 2 hours consistently, answering "I heard you, put the chart in the rack and I will get to it when I get to it". Of course they refused to allow me access to the Pyxis to get the meds myself. "
How very unfortunate for you to have been treated so rudely and unprofessionally by so many nurses! No wonder you question if this is the norm. Yes, I think you've just had bad luck! A few(in your case, numerous)bad apples can(and guaranteed will) spoil the whole cart! Nurses who've refused to treat pts according to your orders should've been written up. Granted, one of our responsibilities is to "question the MD/PA" for clarification issues. The situations that you describe go beyond that. To refuse to give nitro or morphine to your pts for up to 2 hrs is neglect in my opinion.
I'm happy to hear that you finally found a great place of employment with professionals/equals; it sounds well deserved.
Aug 16, '06OP, I've seen good and bad nurses and medical staff in equal amounts. The stories you relate are not unique to the nursing profession. As to your statement that you don't understand nursing, I agree with you. In reading your posts you sound to me like you think you are superior to nurses, am I right about this? Honestly? It is a sad commentary that nurses and medical staff can work side by side for years and never really understand each other. If you truly want to understand nurses then ask us some questions!
Aug 16, '06The reason why I sounded the troll alert was that the OP has to have at least some intelligence to have graduated from PA school. Therefore, I have a really difficult time believing that he thinks that the vast majority of nurses are nasty people who don't care about their patients. The first post was so black and white and confrontational and seemed designed to tick people off("Never understood nursing" is a prime example)-which it seems he was sucessful in doing. There are people who are lazy, nasty and passive aggressive in ALL fields in healthcare:nurses, CNA's, PA's and let's not forget doctors, who IMHO, have cornered the market on nasty far better than nurses ever will. He also seems to be under the mistaken impression that he is able to write people up..That one made me chuckle, if anything. I am kind of mad at myself for even posting this and thereby feeding the troll further, but I'm done now and this misguided soul is going on my ignore list..Something tells me though, that I don't even need to do that, because I think he's had his fun.
Aug 16, '06I have been in Nursing since the early 1970's. The PA's I've met have been professional. Some for certain had the worst "I am God" attitude, just like some nurses. Where I have been employed on a med-surg unit for the last 16 yrs, where we have had a good and compassionate crew. Just last night our CNT mentioned she had called in on Sunday and Monday because she fell off a ladder painting her house. ( She is 50 ) She said she was able to do all of her usual hard work. But guess what, our charge nurse came to us and told us what had happened. We took over on her heavy load of turning and cleaning up of our patients. Guess again! When we call for assist, members of our team and the other team will come to the rescue. I have stayed at this job for 16 + years. No other floor in this hospital has the compassion for their co-workers who act on it like my floor. Those who come into the system JUDGEMENTAL, trying to knock what works for us, will either convert to being HUMAN, or will move on. Don't muddy the water. Perfection will not save the patient, but several good nurses using their common knowlege will. By the book is just a guide, not the law. The stab you in the back nurses seem to show up at the big university hospitals, where there may be more room to move up.
Aug 16, '06I am sorry to hear that you have had bad experiences in working with Nurses.
Nurse to patient ratios, bad pay, lack of respect all may very well have contributed to the actions of the nurses that you have described. I know one nurse who left nursing to be a PA and one who left to be an MD because they were sick of "being the lowest rung on the totem pole".
The actions that you are reporting are definitely NOT the norm in my experiences. I work in a large level one trauma teaching hospital (with a nurses union), on the floors though, and I am pretty sure that if those scenerios you described happened where I worked, those nurses would be on probation, suspended, transferred to an area with less direct pt care or as a last resort, fired.
Yes I have seen nurses and MD's PA's NP's CNA's treat each other in a hateful, disrespecful manner. Its not the norm but it is definitely the same few over and over again.
One thing that I have to agree with other posters on is, "have you looked at the way you come off to people?" Most communication is nonverbal so if you come off disrespecful or not confident then I think you are a dumping ground for hateful passive agressive people.
I am so glad to hear you found an environment of professional, respectful people at your most recent job. Also, I am glad that you chose to vent about your frustrations and I hope you found some answers and saw that not all nurses are like those whom you describe as hatefull and unprofessional.
Your wife is an EM nurse so I am wondering what she things of all this??
Aug 16, '06Quote from VegRNYes, this is one question, among many, the OP hasn't answered specifically.Your wife is an EM nurse so I am wondering what she things of all this??
Aug 16, '06I am sorry to hear of your experience. I don't know if you have heard of Magnet status as applied to hospitals. In order to obtain this status staff must present evidence that they treat each other in a respectful manner. All professions have their bad apples. It seems as though you were exposed to more than your share of them.
My theory is that in the states you previously worked the nurses were just beginning a power grab as a profession and being new at it these individuals did not exhibit appropriate behavior, perhaps a tad too agressive! Unfortunatley they may have been modeling the behavior they learned from physicians. As a nurse of 20+ years I have experienced more than my share of obnoxious, rude, and dismissive doctors.
I believe the atmosphere has changed for the better as the physicians and nurses are working out the relationship changes but there will still be some bumpy rides moreso in some geographical areas than in others.
Aug 16, '06You know something, if you go into any situation with the attitude that "they are going to 'put it to me'" then that is what you are going to get. Over my long nursing career I have had my share of PA's, interns, residents etc. who have come in with major attitudes and GOD syndrome. You do NOT get the cooperation of nursing staff by being a +++ I will go the extra mile for any PA, intern, resident, attending as long as they treat me with respect.
Bottom line (for me anyway) is the PATIENT...someone not doing what they need to be doing (or not doing) and I am going to be vocal about it.
Aug 16, '06.Last edit by RNOkie on Aug 16, '06 : Reason: oops double posted, still haven't learned how to delete
Aug 16, '06Nursing is simple, (or it should be); #1 priority =sick people get treated.#2 Help those who cannot help themselves. Plain and simple. Between the egos, territorialism, personality conflicts and just the overall cr*p we have to put up with, sadly, we sometimes we lose sight of the main objective.
The bit about the refusal to stick a pregnant drug seeker is hard to swallow. Drug seeker or not, we risk needlesticks every day; that's just part of it. And to deny an unborn child the proper medical treatment? Come on... no matter how big an idiot the mother is, that's pure negelect or "burnout", hard to tell. I can tell you that would go over like a lead balloon in my facility and I can assure you that I would be flipping burgers after a stunt like that, cause I can guarantee that I wouldn't be nursing again, in this area anyway.
I have found that many health care professionals get something at work that they are not getting at home. If what the OP says is true, Maybe those nurses are the submissive ones in their family and are not allowed to carry on like that with their spouses. I know one of my Doc's that comes in, throws charts, rants and raves and carries on most certainly DOES NOT get by with that with his wife. One nurse I know who throws his weight around at work, does not wear the pants in his family. Or maybe it was regional, who knows. The point is, that sometimes we, and I don't mean just nurses, DOCs, PA's, all of us, get so wrapped up in ourselves, and what we will and will NOT do, and what s/he is doing or not doing, lose sight of what we are here for and ultimately, that is to heal the sick and injured.
Aug 16, '06i haven't read through ALL these pages of posts, so i don't know if anyone has pointed this out yet, but first of all... no NURSE can rip up prescriptions you write! as a PA, you are LICENSED to prescribe medicine in 49 states. nurses CAN'T, and they certainly can't rip up something you write. have you gone to somebody about this?? are you just LETTING them do that?? they simply don't have that authority....sorry.Last edit by user9876 on Aug 16, '06
Aug 16, '06Quote from aph401And that is what I was trying to point out: by doing so, these nurses are practicing medicine without a license and need to be reported. However, the OP has stated that he doesn't write up his coworkers. In my opinion, that makes him part of the problem.i haven't read through ALL these pages of posts, so i don't know if anyone has pointed this out yet, but first of all... no NURSE can rip up prescriptions you write! as a PA, you are LICENSED to prescribe medicine in 49 states. nurses CAN'T, and they certainly can't rip up something you write. have you gone to somebody about this?? are you just LETTING them do that?? they simply don't have that authority....sorry.
Aug 17, '06I have to agree with the PA that started this forum...most nurses I've come across have been rude and unprofessional & they speak to you like you're an idiot....Part of the reason I came into nursing is because I was apalled by the way these "caregivers" treated people, myself included...The only time I regularly see them behave professionally was when I was nursing student. But as a pt. and having worked nurses, it surprising how much self-respect they lack...I'm going to continue in nursing because I'm in it for the people I serve and as a member of a healthcare team...I wish he was wrong but I think he's not I'm afraid to say.