NA's not professionals

Nurses General Nursing

Published

I was the recipient of a complaint yesterday from another employee. An NA told me she had been called off before her shift and told on the phone that instead of having her work, the floor would run with "3 professionals." She took offence at the notion that she was being referred to as not being "professional." While I understand the callers true meaning was RN's and had nothing to do with "professionalism" it non-the-less offended the NA.

I then wrote an e-mail to all the people who may be calling staff off and informed them that this might be offensive and we should monitor ourselves with what we say and to whom. I got a response back from a manager stating that this is an industry term and the NA needs to be "talked to." She also asked me to provide the name of the NA.

Personally I know it that the meaning of "professionals" was not meant to be offensive and only referred to RN's. But, perhaps it's more offensive then I think? I would like to hear from some NA's if they would find it offenses that RN's are referred to as "professionals" and NA's are not.

Tonight I have to decide how to respond to the mangers e-mail with out turning it into a huge issue, but still respecting the NA.

I'm a student and having almost finished my first semester, I have realized that CNA training is a cake-walk in comparison to what I have ahead of me. No, it doesn't make RNs, LPNs better, which of course goes without saying.

This dude HAS to be kidding. If not, he's an idiot (sorry, no way around it), and I really hope he never ever becomes a nurse because he has a ton of work ahead of him and I fear he's simply not smart enough.

For three years before medical school (and all through it as well), I was a CNA. I did the nursing home thing, med/surg, float pool, eventually settled into an ER at my last job. The work is brutal, emotionally and physically. It was made worse by nurses who treated you like an indentured laborer, or that you're "strong as an ox, and half as smart". Like any other CNA here, I've got all the same stories about disrespect and abuse and verbal putdowns from the nurses I worked for. And you know, for all the times as a medical student and now resident that I've been put-down by my attending surgeons, it still wasn't as bad as being a CNA.

Can a nurse do the job of a CNA? Technically yes. Can they do it very well? Unlikely, if they're not doing it every day. It's one thing to say, "I can wake up a client, get them dressed, brush their teeth, and feed them breakfast." It's quite another to do that for 10 different clients in under an hour-and-a-half. I think it's a little foolish to assume that anyone could walk into that role and thrive, simply because they've been to a few years of college.

What I find amusing is that, for the RNs here who are trying to "prove" that being a CNA isn't really a "profession" (whatever you want that to mean): My cohorts in the world of physicians make the same arguments about nursing. This is a ridiculous conversation there, and ridiculous here as well.

Specializes in Community Health, Med-Surg, Home Health.

I think that being a CNA was a physically brutal job. I was bone tired at the end of the day, when I worked at a nursing home. I was fortunate, I did not work with disrespectful nurses very often. Most of them valued my input. But, it was still a brutal job. I was ever so grateful to start working in a clinic, where the back-breaking work was taken away from me. Somehow, though, I always paid close attention to the responsibilities of different disciplines, and when I decided to become an LPN, it was a careful deliberate decision.

Now, being a nurse, I find that I am more mentally exhausted, and it affects me physically (too tired to have a real life for myself). I have to gather information and make decisions based on priority rather than emotion, being pulled at from everyone from the doctor, the manager, the CNAs as well as the patients. I wish I can do more for the patients, and that frustrates me to no end. I deal with a poor population with cultural differences, language and cognitive barriers, and somehow, I have only a few minutes to try and get the point across to them while teaching in my clinic.

Now, I certainly see how a good aide is their weight in gold pounds based on working with some of them. Those that work well, we try and show them how we value them. They have a hard job. And, I need their help. Period. I think that we should use other words than what has been expressed in order to bring up their self esteem. Heck, even nurses are disregarded and disrespected. Imagine how they must feel. While I can comprehend the adjectives and such, it still does not always make the CNA feel better to hear constantly that they are less than professional, based on their understanding of the word. That supervisor should have just said that she needed three RNs and that was it.

For three years before medical school (and all through it as well), I was a CNA. I did the nursing home thing, med/surg, float pool, eventually settled into an ER at my last job. The work is brutal, emotionally and physically. It was made worse by nurses who treated you like an indentured laborer, or that you're "strong as an ox, and half as smart". Like any other CNA here, I've got all the same stories about disrespect and abuse and verbal putdowns from the nurses I worked for. And you know, for all the times as a medical student and now resident that I've been put-down by my attending surgeons, it still wasn't as bad as being a CNA.

Can a nurse do the job of a CNA? Technically yes. Can they do it very well? Unlikely, if they're not doing it every day. It's one thing to say, "I can wake up a client, get them dressed, brush their teeth, and feed them breakfast." It's quite another to do that for 10 different clients in under an hour-and-a-half. I think it's a little foolish to assume that anyone could walk into that role and thrive, simply because they've been to a few years of college.

What I find amusing is that, for the RNs here who are trying to "prove" that being a CNA isn't really a "profession" (whatever you want that to mean): My cohorts in the world of physicians make the same arguments about nursing. This is a ridiculous conversation there, and ridiculous here as well.

No one is saying that CNA work is not taxing physically and that you aren't busy as a CNA. But you know what, I feel pretty comfortable saying that the vast majority of nurses could do the job of a CNA for the day without too many problems simply because many are ALREADY doing it in addition to other duties, have done it in the past as a CNA or a nursing student. If the nurse didn't have to crush 12 meds and give them individually to one patient along with an assessment that needs to be charted, fight with the pyxis that doesn't recognize your finger prints half of the time, wonder why all sorts of meds are ordered when the chart says they are allergic to said medications so you have to go and clarify this issue with the patient, teach the patient down the hall how to use the bed and t controls for the umpteenth time, check on another patient whose IV refuses to stop becoming occluded and beeping, trouble shoot the SCD's that aren't working correctly. Figure out what happened to ordered medications that have yet to show up anywhere on the floor and are soon to be considered a "late" administration. Try and appease your other patient who is ticked off because she wants to eat something, but she is still NPO or on a clear diet. Then go recheck vitals because the CNA (hopefully) has let you know that there were some abnormals, oh yeah and get a decent assessment in and charted on all 4-8 patients that you have, bu then you can't get a free computer because they are all taken. THen you get called because half of your patient are all having 9/10 pain, when they said they were fine when you asked just 15 minutes ago, the med room is out of saline flushes and then you walk by your box and see a nice little pile of new orders just for you! So you think you might get to discharge 1 or 2 people but no one is available to pick them up until after 5 pm, and even though they are well enough for discharge they somehow need the magical meat cutting properties of the nurses and CNA's, and need someone to bring them hot tea every 30 minutes. Then you head down the hall because you finally see a free computer that you can chart at and you overhear a doctor in the room with one of your patients telling her "of course the nurses should be getting you food! I'll take care of that right away!" when this is the same patient that they doctor did not advance the diet for until maybe 5 minutes before the breakfast trays arrived on the unit. (GRRR!) so basically you look bad when it isn't your fault, but you think "screw it" and move on to log into the computer which, of course, decides to freeze up. At which point you see the wife of one of your patients making her way towards you with what can only be another printout from WEBMD about her husbands dx and you just want to run off screaming rather than have every decision you and the doctors have made second guessed for the next 20 minutes, but you grin and bear it and try to be "therapeutic" and remember that hospitalization is stressful for families and blah blah blah. You appease her for the time being and off you go to recheck pain levels for all of the patients you gave pain meds to awhile ago, only to see the transport tech showing up about 45 minutes early to take one of your patients down for a procedure, and so the list goes on and on and on and on and on.

Specializes in Utilization Management.

What I find amusing is that, for the RNs here who are trying to "prove" that being a CNA isn't really a "profession" (whatever you want that to mean): My cohorts in the world of physicians make the same arguments about nursing. This is a ridiculous conversation there, and ridiculous here as well.

You're joking, right?

Again, IMO this is not a discussion about semantics, this is a discussion that has its roots in the "invisibility" of nursing. Even MDs have no clue as to what we do or why RNs are indeed professionals.

It's shameful.

No one is saying that CNA work is not taxing physically and that you aren't busy as a CNA. But you know what, I feel pretty comfortable saying that the vast majority of nurses could do the job of a CNA for the day without too many problems simply because many are ALREADY doing it in addition to other duties, have done it in the past as a CNA or a nursing student.

I know you think that, that's my point. Most docs think they could do the job of an RN without any particular difficulty. Whether it's factually true or not is irrelavent. This whole notion of "I can do your job and mine, no problem" is nothing more than a weapon used to denigrate your coworkers.

I get it, your job is hard. Great, mine too, that's not the point I'm trying to make. All I'm saying is this: It's sad to see nurses, who have a long history of getting crapped on by physicians, then turn around and use the exact same specious arguments to put down CNAs. I guess it really does roll down hill, eh?

:) :) :) :) :) :) :)

I know you think that, that's my point. Most docs think they could do the job of an RN without any particular difficulty. Whether it's factually true or not is irrelavent. This whole notion of "I can do your job and mine, no problem" is nothing more than a weapon used to denigrate your coworkers.

I don't agree with your colleagues. In your first semester of medical school you did not learn how to be a nurse. We are taught how to be nursing assistants our first semester of nursing school. So comparing the two are like trying to compare fact and fiction.

Quite literally an RN can do a nurse assistant's job. It might offend some, but it's true.

What you say is true about the whole I can do your job, no problem thing is true. My personal belief is that everyone is a professional no matter what line of work they decide to do.

Specializes in Cardiac.

I don't have techs or NAs where I work, so I do that job everyday.

Nursing could seriously go without CNAs. We would just need to lower our ratios. But nursing can't exist without nurses...

In this case though quite literally an RN can do a nurse assistant's job. It might offend some, but it's true.

i think that's arrogant and presumptuous.

yeah, i could do their job.

but dang, it would take me forever.

i could never do it as proficiently as they do.

it is the nsg assts, who have taught me so many tricks of their trade.

clever, resourceful, time-saving techniques.

and i agree with tiredmd.

we, as nurses, become contemptuous when we feel belittled by md's.

and yet, some on this board, have no problem inflating their own self-worth by downplaying the role of the cna.

truly, i am sitting here, shaking my head.

sure, one can call themself a professional.

but according to what i've been reading, there's nothing professional about some of these attitudes.

to this day, i am still unsure as to whether nursing is a vocation or profession.

truthfully, i don't care...

as long as i can hold my head up and act "professionally".

and that would encompass being supportive, respectful and conducting oneself with grace.

i guess it really does boil down to how one perceives professionalism.

sheesh.:madface:

leslie

Specializes in Utilization Management.
All I'm saying is this: It's sad to see nurses, who have a long history of getting crapped on by physicians, then turn around and use the exact same specious arguments to put down CNAs. I guess it really does roll down hill, eh?

Wrong.

You are not getting the point. The point is not who works harder, and no one is putting CNAs down. We are stating facts, facts that CNAs and MDs alike should know.

One reason that nurses "have a long history of getting crapped on by physicians" is that they've allowed doctors to go unchallenged when making untrue statements such as "RNs are not professionals."

Wrong.

You are not getting the point. The point is not who works harder, and no one is putting CNAs down. We are stating facts, facts that CNAs and MDs alike should know.

One reason that nurses "have a long history of getting crapped on by physicians" is that they've allowed doctors to go unchallenged when making untrue statements such as "RNs are not professionals."

but again, angie, how does one define a profession?

varying definitions make it most ambiguous.

if diploma/adn nurses can become professionals by virtue of a 2 yr degree, does that make the bsn nurse more professional?

what distinguishes a profession from a vocation?

i honestly don't know the answer to this.

and so, i cannot passionately claim, to be a professional (noun).

but i can be defined by my professionalism (adjective).

so, when i read about cna's wanting to be treated like professionals, i don't get the impression they're equating that with academic status:

rather, a group of workers who want to be recognized for their valuable contributions, just like everyone else.

and it's these same sort of misconceptions that md's have of us:

that we nurses are relegated to performing a bunch of tasks...

and they, the doctors, are the ones who truly have the important work of saving lives.

you don't see the connection between md-nurse, and nurse-cna??

leslie

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