Male L&D nurses

leslie :-D · May 30, 2004

kate, i SO relate to the sisterhood of laboring/delivering and that is my personal preference. if other pts. don't mind male nurses assisting then there's really no issues.

tony- your connotation of women spreadeagling is eloquent linguistics at its' finest. carry on nurse.

camay1221_RN · May 30, 2004

Ultimately, it is respecting the wishes of the woman in labor.

finchertwins, BSN, RN · May 30, 2004

Not many things get my attention but at times something just grabs it and grinds its way to my core. Nursing had been a female dominated field for the past 200 years and have done a wonderful job, but times have changed and the age old gender lines have been smashed like the Berlin wall. I personally have no problem with anyone doing a job or aspiring to do something once dominated by the opposite gender. I am a student nurse(RN), was a paramedic w/female partner, and when I was 17 worked in a l&d/peds clinic in East Africa for about a year. Never in that time have I ever given a person trouble for being the wrong gender for the job, never have I recieved grief visa versa. No one shall dictate where I can and can't work. Never had a Labor and Delivery, or mother/baby patient request a dif care giver. On the converse it is up to the client, to date I have yet to be switched with a female health care worker, in fact I had a less than nice little old lady that refused any male caregiver allow me to care of her and she was the nicest patient on the floor. So lets take this thread and bury it in the manure pill, gender has nothing to do with it, what does count is what kind of nurse you are and how well you care for your clients!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

leslie :-D · May 30, 2004

i thought it was pretty much agreed that gender is irrelevant but patients' wishes were to be respected. am i missing something fincher?

Tony35NYC · May 30, 2004

I was just trying to illustrate that the anti-male rhetoric in this thread is more about old-school feminist politics than it is about the desires of most women who give birth. My point all along is that I've never seen any scientific study which proves that most women who give birth would rather not have a male nurse. In fact, most of the information I've seen on this topic has been from female L&D nurses who, from the tone of their words, seem to be more interested in protecting their turf. I was curious to know what you mean by 'birth culture' but now I'm sure it really doesn't matter to me because I'm willing to bet money that it somehow diminishes the paternal role, which as a man, I reject outright.

I'm extremely close to my kids, I feed them, I bathe them, I hug them, I love them, spend lots of time with them...just as much as their momma does. Again, I don't see what's so exclusively 'feminine' about giving birth or the need for an all-female nursing staff during delivery. As a man, I spent a lot of time in pre-birth classes with my wife. I was also in the delivery room with her the whole time while both my kids were being born, the physician in both instances was a man, and the fact that the nurses were women didn't mean a thing to us. All we wanted was to take our babies and get the heck outta there as soon as possible. Our only concern is that our babies were healthy. My wife couldn't have cared any less about the doctor or the nurses and I couldn't either, and that's our experience vis-a-vis yours, so it really is moot for me to comment any further in this thread.

Kind regards.

I was curious Tony about the type of person that would choose to use the expression - spreadeagled. I don't think my this is odd. I have not engaged in any type of debate with you before. I tend to be the kind of person who avoids such heated topics. This is not one I felt I could in all integrity ignore. Birth and birth culture happen to be important topics to me personally. Again, I do not take issue with men in the L&D unit. On this we agree. I also don't see male nurses as some sort of looming threat. I do see the arguments in this thread that seek to invalidate a womans choice surrounding the gender of her nurse as dangerous. They shame women who are of a different birth culture and this is where my irritation lies.

BRANDY LPN · May 30, 2004

So a woman comes to the hospital in labor and requests a female nurse. You are going to ask her if she was ever raped or sexually abused to see if she qualifies?

So your stand is that there should not be any men in OB?

Because if there is a male nurse on the floor and the pts all want a female nurse guess what it's not possible, it is not about the nurse and it is not about the (one) laboring woman, it is about the good of all the patients on the floor. And a women who requests an all female delivery because of abuse or religous beliefs has a much more valid reason for that request. I have worked with male OB nurses and if I hadn't moved just prior to delivering I would have definately requested to have one in particular for my nurse, because he was the most compassionate, knowledgeable OB nurse I have ever had the plearsure of working with.

And our prenatal records have the information about past sexual abuse in them, as well as information on domestic abuse, it is up to the woman to answer these questions honestly during her antepartum visits.

kastas, BSN, RN · May 30, 2004

Ultimately, it is respecting the wishes of the woman in labor.

EXACTLY! Why can we not end this?

We have explored this topic on the OB/GYN board not too terribly long ago. There were many more male L&D nurses that responded. I wonder where they all went. They really got into it.

finchertwins, BSN, RN · May 30, 2004

i thought it was pretty much agreed that gender is irrelevant but patients' wishes were to be respected. am i missing something fincher?

No that was my point, it is up to the patient and is their choice and no one elses. We live in a society that is more aware of political correctness and I suppose I should have underlined the fact instead of being upset with the posts that focused on no men allowed. Sorry for the oversight.:)

PA-C in Texas · May 30, 2004

This is a really interesting topic, and I think the thought process behind this debate is something that needs to be explored.

Is L&D so intrinsically different that we cannot draw any parallels between other specialties? I don't know. Words like 'primal' and 'spiritual' have been thrown around, so it makes you wonder. Most people don't associate those concepts with a department like PACU. It is the only area in the hospital which has exclusively female patients. Is the argument that men cannot provide the same level of care for women in this setting as women can? I don't see why not, but I think one of the main problems is that people are romanticizing the birthing experience beyong what their professional involvement should be. They see themselves as a great feminine facilitator who serves as the "birth culture" guru. Yes, there is a special bond with your patients, but it shouldn't progress beyond the professional bond.

Is it necessary for the hospital to provide another nurse simply because the patient does not want a male nurse? The impulsive answer is yes, but this question begs another. Should nurses be replaced whenever a patient asks, for whatever reason? At what point do you draw the line?

I have had very little experience with this issue. I have had women come in who needed pelvic exams, and there have been a couple who have requested a female be the one to do it. I politely explained to them that I was the only one in the ED qualified to do a pelvic exam at that time, and that if they did not want me to do it, they were welcome to leave against medical advice and seek treatment at another facility. I know of cases where my NP & PA colleagues have been told by patients that they wanted a male provider. That didn't happen.

My thought is that birthing centers are not places where you go to live out your picturesque dream of what the birth of your baby should be like. They are places where you receive health care during labor and assistance in delivery of your baby. I totally respect the hollistic view of health care, but viewing labor and delivery wards as feminine temples of the 'birth culture' is a little extreme, and it presents a glaring contradiction for those who otherwise argue for equality and the dismantling of gender barriers.

LT Dave · May 30, 2004

So does this mean that there shouldn't be male OB-GYNs?

Yes. Men should not do this. The difference between having a male doctor and nurse is in nursing we are much more intimate with our patients. Doctors diagnose and treat, We care for patients, assist with ADLs, and many more personal things. Men do not belong in this area.

I hated it and as a joke on my last day when in school on the L&D floor my co-students hid a clean peri pad in my book bag. I still laugh remembering how much they all got me that day.

Dayray, RN · May 30, 2004

This topic pops up often, if anyone is interested I think I have posted on most of them over the past 3 years so you can access them via my profile.

I read the whole thread and am interested in some of the topics presented I'll answer them from my own perspective and invite responses both negative and positive.

First let me say that I very strongly support a patients right to refuse any caregiver for any reason. That's not to say I agree with the thinking behind their decisions but it is their body and they have a right to say who does things to it. If they say they don't want a nurse for any reason this is their right. I have had 1 patient this past year ask for a female nurse and I had to defend her decision to my charge nurse. My coworkers were offended on my behalf because they know that I'm a good nurse but I had to remind them that the patient's rights superseded any feelings any of us had. That said let's get on to some of the other issues.

First there are several posts by a lady that feels that birthing is a spiritual thing. She also feels that it is a time for bonding among women. I very much agree with this statement and I'm happy that she has been able to find this among her caregivers. Working in L&D for 2 years (which isn't very long) I am sorry to say that I have found that, such a situation is rare. Deliveries have been "medicalized" and many caregivers aren't interested in bonding or in the spiritual aspect of birthing. Although it goes against our societies stereotypical role for a man, if you asked my coworkers they would tell you that I am more supportive of the spiritual and bonding aspects of birth then anyone else on the floor. True I have never and will never personally experience birth and I can't offer a female to female connection but none the less I do connect very intimately with my patients and their partners as well as getting them threw the process safely. Please don't feel that I am in anyway challenging your choice to have only women care providers (as I said before, it's your right). I would however like to present the point of view that in absence of what you have found in your care providers I come in a close second.

Next, There was someone who said that a man wanting to work L&D is doing so only to satisfy their own crusade or placing their own desires above those of the patients. I don't agree with this statement but it is a valid question. I had to struggle with this question myself.

I like the majority of other male nursing students had my sights set on the ER or ICU. I was very surprised when during my OB clinical I discovered that I loved L&D. It was a difficult couple of years when I first decided I wanted to go to L&D and then started working post partum. I was the first male to ever work the area at this hospital and the nurses were very cruel. They made every effort to humiliate and demoralize me as well as trying to get me fired. Eventually they tried several times to convince patients to fabricate stories of abuse or neglect. This was communicated to me by my patients who were utterly discussed that the other nurses would even suggest it. I tell you these things not so that you will pity me; I did after all choose this path and have no regrets.

I am writing these things to demonstrate the state of mind that made me question my true reasons for going into OB. With so many of my colleagues so strongly opposed to my being on the floor, I had to ask myself if I was doing something wrong. Then I had to question weather I was only there for myself. Was I placing my own desires above the needs of my patients?

Do you know what answered the question for me? .... It was the patients. When they told me that they loved me and that I had helped them. It was the memories I accumulated over that first year of caring for patients and of the many times patients told me how glad they were to have me. It was the patients who asked for me because their sisters had told them about how I had cared for them. It was the patients I later saw in the grocery store who ran up to show me their baby and hug me. They weren't embarrassed that I had seen them naked or that I had seen them at their worst. They were grateful (and dare I hope better off) for the care I gave them.

I also thought back and pinpointed the exact moment I decided that I wanted to be an L&D nurse. It was the last day of my L&D rotation. I hadn't been allowed to see any deliveries because the nurses wouldn't allow it. I was sent to answer a call light for a patient in labor, I don't remember what she needed or what I did for her, but she asked me to be there for her delivery. Her nurse didn't want me in the room but the patient and my instructor convinced her as long as I stayed at the head of the bed and didn't look at her lady parts. She cried and struggled threw labor and I was there and I knew I helped her, I knew that holding her hand and talking to her made a difference and I loved it. After the delivery she asked me not to forget her and I never will.

That's when I decided and that's why I do what I do. Yes I like the autonomy of L&D, yes I am proud knowing that I am damn good at what I do and that I make better outcomes by knowing my stuff and I am fascinated by the process of conception, gestation and birth but all of these factors pale when compared to how much I love comforting patients and meeting their needs. There is nothing better short of the love I have for my wife, children and God. To me it's like heaven.

Finally I'm going to address another issue that has been discussed here. I'm not going to name names or point fingers but there are many on this board and many in our profession that feel that men should not work L&D or that it's sick. Many times this is disguised as a statement supporting patient rights but it goes deeper then that and should not be confused as advocacy for patients. It is blatant predigest and like other predigest it is rooted in misunderstanding and generations of anger, it is wrong and it is destructive to people, both nurse and patient. A few people have mentioned that there aren't many male L&D nurses, this isn't because of lack of interest it is because of fear. It's because they are afraid of accusations, of being seen as gay or as perverted and it keeps good nurses from following their chosen path. Once again (because I know some of you are thinking it) I am not talking about what patients choose, I am talking about what nurses say and think.

nurseunderwater · May 30, 2004

This topic pops up often, if anyone is interested I think I have posted on most of them over the past 3 years so you can access them via my profile
I read the whole thread and am interested in some of the topics presented I'll answer them from my own perspective and invite responses both negative and positive.
First let me say that I very strongly support a patients right to refuse any caregiver for any reason. That's not to say I agree with the thinking behind their decisions but it is their body and they have a right to say who does things to it. If they say they don't want a nurse for any reason this is their right. I have had 1 patient this past year ask for a female nurse and I had to defend her decision to my charge nurse. My coworkers were offended on my behalf because they know that I'm a good nurse but I had to remind them that the patient's rights superseded any feelings any of us had. That said let's get on to some of the other issues.
First there are several posts by a lady that feels that birthing is a spiritual thing. She also feels that it is a time for bonding among women. I very much agree with this statement and I'm happy that she has been able to find this among her caregivers. Working in L&D for 2 years (which isn't very long) I am sorry to say that I have found that, such a situation is rare. Deliveries have been "medicalized" and many caregivers aren't interested in bonding or in the spiritual aspect of birthing. Although it goes against our societies stereotypical role for a man, if you asked my coworkers they would tell you that I am more supportive of the spiritual and bonding aspects of birth then anyone else on the floor. True I have never and will never personally experience birth and I can't offer a female to female connection but none the less I do connect very intimately with my patients and their partners as well as getting them threw the process safely. Please don't feel that I am in anyway challenging your choice to have only women care providers (as I said before, it's your right). I would however like to present the point of view that in absence of what you have found in your care providers I come in a close second.
.

Hi Dayray - First I would like to thank you for taking the time to respond in such a mindful and articulate way. I am sure you are a wonderful L&D nurse.

I know I have mentioned previously on some thread the anthropologist - Robbie Davis-Floyd. Her study of the medicalization of birth and the wholistic vs. technocratic model of birth is fascinating. Birth - An American Right Of Passage was a pivitol point for me as a woman living in the framework of our current dominant culture.

Thanks again for your post.

Kate