If you are the patient's advocate, can you sue the MD?

Nurses General Nursing

Published

I am curious to find the answer to this question. I know that most anyone at anytime can sue another individual in America. But if you see outlandish medicine practiced at your facility, can you sue the MD for malpractice as the nurse representing this client at the bedside? Anyone know of any historic events that mirror this concern?

Or for that matter visa versa, can an MD sue you the nurse for not providing the best of care to a patient???!

Specializes in med surg.

In our system, MDs usually have the last say in clinical decision making, but RNs should be expected to participate. Participate, collaborate all in the patients' best interest. Advocate? I'm not sure if that's the best word for it, but the main point, as I see it, is that nurses' shouldn't shy away from influencing health care decisions about their patients.

I think that you brought up a very good point! 'Nurses as advocates' does make it sounds as though nursing is completely separate from medical professions and MDs. Advocating seems to only really come into play when talking about theories. Otherwise, nurses and MDs and other medical professions should be collaborating together and everyone should be (theoretically) patient advocates (in the non-legal sense). I suppose that when I thought of myself as the patient's advocate, I was standing separate from the rest of the patient's medical team...but really I should view myself as a collaborator because everyone should be an advocate...

Up Vote Up Vote ×
Specializes in Case mgmt., rehab, (CRRN), LTC & psych.

I would seek out all other possible solutions before even thinking about a lawsuit.

Today's society, in my honest opinion, is simply too litigious. I personally wouldn't want to add fuel to the already-blazing fire of frivolous lawsuits in the healthcare field that have ruined a path of lives and careers.

Up Vote Up Vote ×
Specializes in Med/Surg, ER, L&D, ICU, OR, Educator.
I've never heard this before, but that may be because I didn't listen well.

But like I said earlier, if we were the doctor's advocate, does the doctor know about this? If not, how can we do something as a professional responsibility if the other party isn't aware of it?

Don't we all "advocate" profusely for most docs? We apologize for lateness, remind about orders that they promised, make excuses for any irregularity, make light of personality flaws, etc.

We owe this to the patient's too...don't we? What is this labeled as?

Up Vote Up Vote ×
Don't we all "advocate" profusely for most docs? We apologize for lateness, remind about orders that they promised, make excuses for any irregularity, make light of personality flaws, etc.

We owe this to the patient's too...don't we? What is this labeled as?

The point I'm making is that if nurses are "advocates" this should be spelled out, explicit -- whatever direction nurses feeling like they are being advocates for.

As far as apologizing, making excuses, and "making light of personality flaws" for doctors ... well, let me say that nurses who want to do these things for their physician colleagues can do what they want to. But I'm not going to serve as a PR person for a rude or ill-mannered physician. Most nurses have enough on their plates without spending time doing something that's not their job.

Up Vote Up Vote ×
Specializes in Med/Surg, ER, L&D, ICU, OR, Educator.
As far as apologizing, making excuses, and "making light of personality flaws" for doctors ... well, let me say that nurses who want to do these things for their physician colleagues can do what they want to. But I'm not going to serve as a PR person for a rude or ill-mannered physician. Most nurses have enough on their plates without spending time doing something that's not their job.

But, isn't this the same thing that we do for our patients? You highlight "making light of personality flaws"...isn't this exactly what we try to make up for in our un-enlightened patients? Those who aren't aware of their options?

Up Vote Up Vote ×
But, isn't this the same thing that we do for our patients? You highlight "making light of personality flaws"...isn't this exactly what we try to make up for in our un-enlightened patients? Those who aren't aware of their options?

Educating a patient ("making them aware of their options") is not "making light of personality flaws." It's patient teaching.

All I've said is that advocacy has a specific meaning in the US. A lawyer is an advocate. A nurse is not. A nurse who plans to be an advocate needs to make it very plain and explicit that that's what the nurse is doing -- whether for patients or other health colleagues. Being an "advocate" without spelling it out means we would be introducing an aspect of our interaction without the other party's knowledge or consent. In my book, that's unethical.

Up Vote Up Vote ×
Specializes in Trauma ICU,ER,ACLS/BLS instructor.
Educating a patient ("making them aware of their options") is not "making light of personality flaws." It's patient teaching.

All I've said is that advocacy has a specific meaning in the US. A lawyer is an advocate. A nurse is not. A nurse who plans to be an advocate needs to make it very plain and explicit that that's what the nurse is doing -- whether for patients or other health colleagues. Being an "advocate" without spelling it out means we would be introducing an aspect of our interaction without the other party's knowledge or consent. In my book, that's unethical.

When u pick anything apart u can find problems with its meaning. This is apples and oranges here. We do what we do,call it what u want. Nursing has never been black and white. If u want a profession that is just that,ya picked the wrong one. We take on many roles,change aprons all the time. If the legal definition bothers one,call it something else. Helping,caring,facilitating,,,,whatever.

Over the years I have been a listener,educator,confidant,caretaker,plumber,handyman, personnal assistant,hand holder,brow wiper,voice on the phone,family mediator,maintenence worker,,,,,,I have been a nurse and proud of it. My many roles have changed and evolved with the pt population I care for. It's what makes the job so fun and diverse.

Unethical would be saying that u will represent the pt in a situation between them and their doc,we do not do that. We facilitate communication. We pass on messages. We may help put out a few fires along the way also. Like I said,call it what u want,but do not make an issue of it. Just be a nurse.

Up Vote Up Vote ×
Specializes in Hospice, Med/Surg, ICU, ER.

In a word.... "NO".

Bringing suit requires what is called "standing". As a person not the patient or power-of-attorney therefore, you have no legal standing.

Don't take the "patient advocacy" part of our job too seriously - that simply means that we are to closely follow their plan of care and address concerns regarding that with the MD and with our chain-of-command. Nothing more.

Don't let nursing school indoctrination and the desires of the "nursing elitists" get you into trouble.

Up Vote Up Vote ×

for me as a patient the thought of nurses as patients advcates makes sense. Nurses do things like try to get meds that will work better or take care of a problem that just appeared. They will get the doc to come take a look if the patient is worried about something. And they make sure the patient is treated with the respect that they deserve as human beings.

Up Vote Up Vote ×
+ Add a Comment