How old is... "too old to be working?"('lil lengthy)

Nurses General Nursing

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Some people just don't know when to quit or they just won't quit. The facility can't force you to retire, so then what? Do you just let someone work until they collapse on the unit or make a major mistake? Family members can't convince mom it's time to leave so do you just put up with her? I am now working on a new unit which I love, but it seems that my co worker should be a resident on this unit. No one wants to work with her. She is forgetful, very suspicious of management in that they are all out to get her. Our shift ends at 8am, but I hear she stays until noon sometimes checking and rechecking things she did or didn't do all night. Sometimes she does overtime four and five days in a row and then she's exhausted!...not good for an elderly person. She tells stories of how "before I leave, people will know how this place is really run!" She spends more time talking of how, and I quote, "It's an unregulated gang who flourish with the absence of authority." This one is a liar, that one in no good, She is an evil person, and THAT one needs to have her license taken away. I try to break away from her, but she seeks you out. I've worked with this person about five or six years ago and she was NEVER like this, always so sweet and kind. Other people who have worked with her have told me that once you get on her bad side watch out, she'll write you up for everything. Bad side? I asked. They replied, "If you don't agree with things she talks about, (ie) mismanagement, poor attitudes of others, she thinks you are like "them" and looks for ways to try and do you in." Well, thanks for the info, but now I have to deal with her. She repeats things over and over, she falls asleep during report and the other nurses tell her, "Wake up and pay attention!" There's a smoke alarm on the ceiling by the nurses station and she thinks it's some kind of recording device that records every word you say for management to hear. PaRaNoIa will destroy ya! I keep a little book of any incidents that I think need to be remembered... just in case. I jot down the date, time, incident and if any, those involved. One never knows when I may have to recall something. Take using the narcotics for instance. We only had 0.5mg tabs of Clonazapine and the resident needed 0.25mg. She asked me earlier if I would witness and sign that she wasted half a tablet. I walked into the med room which the door was wide opened and she had a 0.25mg tab laying on the counter sitting in the bubble pack, the narcotic box was wide opened, and she was no where to be seen and all at the change of shift. I closed the narc box couldn't lock it b/c she had the keys, then locked the med room door. I wasn't going to be a witness and sign that she wasted the other half of the Clonazapine if I didn't see it and where was the OTHER half of the tablet, and where was she? Here comes the day nurse on duty. I told her to count narcs with the other nurse b/c I have no idea what she's doing in there and explained the situation. My coworker said to me, "Why don't we go to the HN and see if we can schedule the same days off together." :stone I {{{cringed}}} at the thought but told her, "Well I like having every other weekend off."...I need four nights away from her...my two nights and her two. I feel sorry for her because anyone who's ever had an encounter with her and that's just about everyone including management is so nasty towards her. She's getting old for cripe's sake, but she doesn't need everyone treating her like dirt either. It's really time for her to retire with whatever dignity she has left, but she says, "I'm not going anywhere until my story is told." Good luck I say to her. I'm afraid that one night I'll go around the corner and find her sprawled flat out on the floor, or she becomes so senile that she doesn't know her name. Where does that leave me or anyone else that has to work with her? I mean if she does something wrong could we be held accountable? Management knows how she is, but I think they're only interested in coverage of the unit, doesn't matter if the staff can function or not! I think someone needs to put their foot down and either convince her or make her retire... who should that person be? Family? Management? When do we, the staff take a stand if we're allowed to take one at all or do we wait for her to make a major mistake at the cost of maybe someone's life? So I ask all of you, "How old is too old to be working?", and any ideas on how I'm supposed to deal with this situation? :o :confused: :o

My grandmother was registered in 1939 at age 17, and kept up on her C.E. and licencing requirements right up until her first cataract surgery, in 1997.

She retired in 1979 only because she had worsening leg pain related to injuries sustained while serving as a flight nurse in WWII. She's still sharp as as the proverbial tack and serves on the local Red Cross board of directors and is a guest lecturer at the local University.

So, I think your coworker's problems sound more like the result of the early stages of dementia or other organic brain disease--the smoke-detector-as-listening-device comment would be my first clue--rather than plain old age. We'll all be old nurses someday--I pray that God will give me the wisdom to retire with dignity--but it doesn't sound like a purely age-related thing. In the meantime, document, document, document, at least enough to CYA.

Specializes in Med-Surg, Trauma, Ortho, Neuro, Cardiac.

There is a Nurse Practice Act in force to ensure that patients get the utmost safe care. If you feel she can cause harm to patients perhaps you are obligated to let the state board of nursing handle it. Sounds cruel. But the patients are what is important here.

It sounds like a very frustrating situation.

That's going to be me though. The economy is going to be such that I'll never get good investments, inflation will take care of the rest, and I'll be using a walker to get from patient to patient at the age of 100. Be kind to me. LOL

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Maybe its because she needs the money.

The point of several of the posters who replied to your original question was that it may not have anything to do with her age. She may not be NOT wasting away with "senility". And it is not the "picture of an old person", its the picture of a medical problem that needs attention. We shouldnt just jump to the conclusion that old age is the cause of her behavior.

A caring nurse administrator should discuss the situation with her - not wait for her to retire or harm someone so she can be fired. They could let her transfer to another job within the facility that might be more manageable for her while she gets her problem checked out. She doesnt have to retire because someone else feels she looks old.

Shes probably aware of what she looks like & how people are talking about her. No wonder shes "paranoid" about people being out to get her. Of course maybe her meds are doing that to her. They cant fire someone for being old or having to take medications but they can request she work less or transfer to a position that wont put others at risk.

Maybe she doesn't need the money...her husband is a lawyer...Just as each one of us develope at different rates, we all grow older at different rates. Some people just get old before their time. Numerically she may not be old, but mentally due to neurological changes in her brain from a MEDICAL PROBLEM, to others she may appear to be senile or "getting old." Totally agree that a caring nurse administrator should discuss her situation with her, but you don't know our administrators! They eat their oldsters and yes, they are just waiting for a significant situation to happen so they can get her out of there. Why? Because she is a known whistle blower in the past and in a way still is by trying to "get her story told". I didn't want to bring the whistle blower subject up, but that's all I will say about it. I want to speak to her myself in a kind and caring way, but am trying to figure out how to go about this without making her feel as if I'm out to get her too. It's very difficult caring for someone but not wanting to hurt their feelings in the meantime. I respect her very much. Due to her mental process at this point, I'm not sure I can talk to her as a friend without her thinking the worst. It's a tough thing for me to do. To others it might not be so tough especially if they're cold hearted, but I feel that I must try and so I shall...somehow and when the time is right.

Do you have an EAP at your facility Michele? They may be of some assistance...you could let them facilitate an intervention of sorts for this nurse who is having problems

Or as JT suggested, you could certainly make an anonymous report to your BON and they will be obliged to investigate and go from there...but this may result in her license being removed and you may not feel good about facilitating such a harsh outcome for her...your call.

I'm glad you're proceeding in a caring fashion and you're wise to document your observations, incidents, plus names, dates and times you have approached management about your concerns. :)

Ok so when the significant situation happens & someone is harmed she will be fired. And then management will interview the rest of the staff & possibly discipline those who admit they knew the RN had a problem but they didnt speak up about it. The blame could be shifted to them because the employer could claim it didnt know & that if those RNs had come forward, the employer may have been able to take an action that would have prevented the significant situation from happening. The silent RNs get left holding the bag & might have disciplinary action taken against them by the employer for their failure to protect the pts.

AND, when the family of the person who was harmed sues & every staff person on that floor has to give a legal deposition, & is asked if they noticed anything of concern in her practice or behavior, if they tell the truth & say yes, they will be asked if they informed management to address the problem. If they havent, they are guilty of not advocating for & protecting the pts & can be held responsible in the lawsuit & also by the Board of Nursing for failing in their professional responsibilies. If they know theres a problem but dont bring it to the attention of management, they may find themselves having to fight for their own licenses too.

I know, I know -jt. Trouble is, the administration already is aware of this woman and have plenty of documentation on her way before I started working with her three weeks ago. I feel that they should have been more involved with investigating her. To a certain point they did some investigating if that's what you want to call it. She had a big fight with another nurse that worked with her on nights in June I believe it was. The supervisor was called to come to the floor. She was put on days for six weeks and the other nurse was not. As soon as she went on days, her husband fell and broke his hip and she took time off (three weeks)to stay at home with him. Little by little she was scheduled back to nights. I don't think she even worked two and a half weeks on the day shift. Never did understand that one, but that was their big investigation. She and the other nurse do not work together anymore and that's where I come in. I am taking the other nurses place. So they know all about her behaviors, etc. I feel that they should have made her work days for at least three to six months in order for them to fully see her as she really is. Now it's my turn. They're probably waiting for me to start coming forward with incidences about her. Last night she was very quiet and didn't say too much all night. After report she just sat in the chair and stared off into space. She said she was tired. It was strange, almost like she was in a trance, and like she was suddenly on some type of medication. She was just too quiet as compaired to the last three weeks that I've been working with her. She's due back in tonight with me, but talked of calling out sick on Tuesday night when I'm off. Maybe she'll just call out tonight. We'll see...

Specializes in ORTHOPAEDICS-CERTIFIED SINCE 89.

She sounds stressed, in grief process over her husband's fall, possibly in grief for her own situation, and perhaps quite lonely. It could be work is her only social outlet.

I believe you owe it to your patients and your self preservation to speak with the NM *AND* leave a paper trail. I think you should also speak with her. Even if she makes you very angry with her reaction, she deserves to KNOW she has made ab error.

We had a Lactation Nurse who was 79 when she retired. Still very alert, still very active in her community and very much beloved by the thousands of moms and babies she helped. She was a senior citizen but she was definitely NOT old.

Specializes in Specializes in L/D, newborn, GYN, LTC, Dialysis.

what does risk management have to say of all this? just wondering?

Specializes in CV-ICU.

Michele, you keep saying "she wants to tell her story." What s her story? Have you asked her about this? Has she written down her story? Maybe ask her to do so; if she is encouraged to do so and is unable to; this may make her realize that she has a problem. You say she is kind of a whistle blower; what do you mean by that?

I agree that she sounds like there is something wrong with her mentally; how long have the other staff noticed this behavior from her? You worked with her 5 or 6 years ago, that is a while ago when you start talking about personality changes. Could it be that her husbands' fall triggered a problem? But you did say that there were complaints about her before he was injured, didn't you?

BTW Michele, age-ism is a touchy subject with many people today. Many of us here are over 50, and although we don't know your age, the title of this thread can be misconstrued as being aimed at us "seasoned" nurses. Until you stated that this nurse was 70-ish, I was feeling defensive myself. Back when I was a kid and even into my 20's, "older people" really were older: someone in their mid-50's had grey hair and wrinkles and middle-aged spread and dressed OLD; dowager's humps were very common in women over 65. Now someone in their mid-50's may not have grey hair (either thanks to nature or Clairol), and we can take better care of ourselves all the way around so wrinkles, and middle age spread can be delayed, reduced, or eliminated and thanks to hormones dowagers humps are rarely seen these days. And there isn't a "little old ladies" clothing section in department stores anymore. So, just by titling this thread as someone being "too old..." it could be offend. What your thread is really about is incompetence or paranoia or personality changes in co-workers or any of a number of other mental health issues; NOT this person's age.

Just have her join the IV Therapy team that is where all the old nurses go that are unable to work the floor.

Could it be that you know not what you are dealing with? Did you state your educational background here? And I beleive I got some insight into your defensive attitude about the age issue. Sometimes those with less education, and experience, who are young find fault where none lies simply because they know no better. Do your job well, cause no harm to patients, residents, or others, and you will be fine.

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