how do we change nurses opinions on male nurses?

bluesky, BSN, RN · Dec 5, 2003

Originally posted by Agnus
Evidently this thread is touched a sore spot with some women. Which suggest to me there is truth in what these men are saying.

VERY sad:o

Listen I have read posts on many occasions (some by men, some by women) making this generalization about nursing culture. I am "sore" about it not because I feel that there is legitimacy to it, but because I feel that it degrades ourselves and the great work we do.

hbscott · Dec 5, 2003

How do we determine a claim to be valid or not? Many threads in this and other bulletin boards have pointed out various problems in nursing practice or profession today.

Many men have claimed that there are problems with negative stereotyping and discrimination practices by other nurses towards men that appears to be gender based.

Many women also have claimed that that there are problems in nursing practice and the nursing profession that negatively impact them.

So what is the solution people? Just deny the problem and hope it goes away?

I don't think so.....

CCU NRS · Dec 6, 2003

Originally posted by Agnus
And what drew you to nursing? Geez. We are not catorgorizing or anything here are we?

And further more when did it become a sin to be drawn to any profession because of the income pontential. There is nothing sacred about nursing that says we must be martyers. I do not reacall taking a vow of poverty when I entered this profession. OR DO YOU DO IT FOR FREE?

Further more have you never complained that you are not paid what you are worth? Because I hear that all the time on this board that we are not paid enough from WOMEN.

If you look around there are a lot easier ways for a man (or anyone else) to make $$$ and a lot more of it than we do in nursing.

My point exactly and that is why I was posting because earlier the comment was made that males only got into nursing when the money became significant. In fact I have gone and found the quote

Originally posted by passing thru

I think it will just take time.

Men have "ganged up" on women and gave females a very difficult time when women tried to break into previously all male occupations.

When the laws changed in the 60's and females were allowed in careers that had previously been all male.

The postal service....was tough. So was construction and law.

I'm sure there's others.

Men just have to show they care and can do the job and want to be team members. It isn't inherent that men are "nurturer's"

There are reasons why nursing/nurturing was a female job for so long.

It isn't the call to nurse sick people that is drawing men into the occupation. It is the $$$$.

The $$$ has FINALLY gotten high enough to attract men's attention..... and,

it beats iron working, roofing, road building, bridge building, house/ skyscraper building.

Better than trucking down a river on a barge in 20 degree weather,

or climbing an oil rig,

sitting on a tractor plowing twelve hours a day - - in the hot sun,...

beats lumber jacking,

beats working in oil refineries and chemical plants...

beats the stress of an assembly line..,

Nursing is a grand job compared to what most American men do.

end quote.

I am neither a martyr or a volunteer and as I stated earlier I get what I want because I am willing to ask for it as many women are traditionally too timid to aks for raises. I also stated that one of the reasons the wages are rising for nurses is because males have entered the profession not vice/versa

Agnus · Dec 6, 2003

shodobe · Dec 7, 2003

I have been in nursing for 27 years, all but a few months in the OR. I hate to tell you but I went into the profession for job security. I know to a lot of you this seems like a joke, but I have never been without a job nor will I ever. Plus the wages aren't too bad, I just got a raise and now make $36.63/hour. I am NOT per diem! I really like my job. Everyday is a different experience, especially in the OR. All cases are different and the patients are always different even though they might be getting the same procedure as the previous patient. I work with some of the best nurses my hospital has, male or female. There are some in the place I wouldn't give two cents to because of their ineptness and pure stupidity. I really don't know how some of them passed boards! More and more guys are going into nursing today than when I started and this is great. But don't think they are all doing it for some so-called "calling". Job security has always been an attraction because they won't have to worry about being laid off somewhere. I know there are alot of places out there that pay very poor wages and I would wonder about nursing if I made such low amounts. I think I am an exception to the rule of nursing for guys and have no problem with that. I still view nurses as nurses and not by gender. Mike

live4today, RN · Dec 7, 2003

Just my two cents on the topic of male nurses.

I have never had a problem working with a male nurse. I enjoy and always have enjoyed working with male nurses. All the merrier as far as I'm concerned. I have had male nurses take care of me when I was the patient, and they did a superb job.

It is FEmale nurses who "catfight" all the time, and argue over trivial things in the work place. :rolleyes:

I have worked with female nurses that are the epitome of sainthood, but I've worked with more female nurses who should be on hormone therapy or something because they always come to work PMSing.

CCU NRS · Dec 7, 2003

Originally posted by shodobe

But don't think they are all doing it for some so-called "calling". Job security has always been an attraction because they won't have to worry about being laid off somewhere.

I agree that not all nurses (male or female) are called to be nurses. What I took issue with was Passing Thur's comment that men aren't "called to nurse sick people but because the money was finally significant" I do not feel that mass generalizations serve to offer enough scope to an issue.

also by Passing Thru "Men just have to show they care and can do the job and want to be team members. It isn't inherent that men are "nurturer's"

There are reasons why nursing/nurturing was a female job for so long."

While I was called to nurse sick people I was also intelligent enough to look at all sides of the issue and understood that Job security and rate of pay were certainly factors. Although I have not done so yet I would also like to go on a mission at some point and volunteer time to help those less able to recieve medical care. Several of the nurses I work with do this twice a year and they seem get something very great from the experience some sense of what altruism must really be.

Dayray, RN · Dec 7, 2003

I think posts like this go a long way in showing how silly the arguments against men in nursing are.

Some few people will read the silly (yes I said silly) arguments and believe that men cannot be as caring or dedicated as women in nursing.

ie.. "they are in it for the trillions and billions of $$$$$ nurses make" Please! (eye roll) ,

or how about "they are just using it as a spring board!" bah,

or the convincing argument that we are all lazy and choose to work nights (obviously posed by a day nurse).

for a few these arguments fuel the fire and convince them male nurse are evil incarnate out for greed and gain.

But for the rest of us, they are a marvelous examples of how far people will go to justify there prejudices.

For me its a reminder that there are no good arguments to discount men as nurses. These otherwise intelligent people really don't understand there own dislike of male nurses and therefore convince them selves that these SILLY explanations justify that dislike. kind of sad if you think about it.

shodobe · Dec 7, 2003

CCUNrs, I agree with you. I wasn't called to do this type of work, but I was interested in helping people. I couldn't do it as a policeman, because my eyes were to bad, so I chose the medical field. I didn't have the grades for med school and did not want to spend my whole life as a Paramedic. Paramedics were just coming into the field and I personally did not think they would last! I find nursing very easy and with little stress. You define stress as you take it. What most people find stressful I probably wouldn't and what I find stressful most people would probably slit their wrists! But seriously now, the only problem I find with men in nursing is they are too focused on only a few areas of nursing. Most of them go either into the ED, OR and ICCU. I find most guys want to work in areas that have a lot of action. I worked both the ED and MS before deciding on the OR and it was very helpful. I am seeing more and more guys going to Peds, MS and other traditional female dominated areas. I am not sure if there is a jealously issue or not because of this. In my hospital I think I have the longest tenure of any male nurse, 27 years. I find it hard to believe I have been doing this so long. I suddenly feel tired! Mike

bedpan · Dec 8, 2003

Maybe we here on this board can be the start of changing this entire attitude

How about if each of us refuse to utter the words "male nurse" or "female nurse" ever again?

The word "Nurse" in and of itself works for me

LilgirlRN, ADN, RN · Dec 8, 2003

I work with a lot of guys who are nurses. I like working with men, I think that together we make it better for the patient. I am not saying that an all woman team is not good, it's just like I said in another thread, our brains work differently and sometimes I see something they don't or the guys will pick up something the women don't. Most of the men I've worked with are pretty task oriented which is a good thing for the ED, we like to move the patients so if someone taking care of them gets the orders done quickly it's better for all concerned. I am not saying guys are unemotional but if they lack anything as a nurse it might be that. Women's intuition is no falacy, we often pick up on more emotional clues than men do and as women and most of us as moms we are more apt to offer emotional support. It's also nice to me to have men as equals at work rather than just having male physicians to work with. We have a lot of fun at work, there is good rapport and the men just add to it. Muscle comes in handy but I have worked where there are only women on a shift and we do fine without it. As far as men in typically women only areas goes, I can see it both ways. I've had men as gynecologists and not thought a thing about it, I don't know that I would want a guy doing fundal checks and smushing clots out of me or asking me how many pads I've gone through that day. Just my modesty I think. I believe that if I had no choice in the matter that I would get over it quickly. I would NOT be thinking that the man was eyeballing my body parts. I am sure that in the ED where I work, some of the guys go to give a shot to a female patient and are appreciative of a nice behind, but I do the same thing. Giving an injection to a nice male butt can really make me smile. I have never seen the guys go gather up the other males nurses in the ED to go check out an unconscious womans boobs, but I have seen female nurses say "hey come in here and help me for a minute" only to be shown a man that was rather endowed. Perhaps that's because they are few and far between I have no problem working with men, I respect what they do. To me, they are just like me, another working person, just trying to make a living.

forensicmsn · Dec 10, 2003

my experience with quite a few of the male nurses I have worked with has been that they don't like to work very hard, and are constantly manipulating the females to do things for them. Their pay is higher, on average, than female nurses, which makes absolutely no sense to me, and this is especially true for NPs. Why is this? I think that this causes a LOT of the resentment.

When I was in nursing school, I was a single mom, working two jobs, no child support and making high B's and low A's. Most of my education was being paid for by ME. There was a guy who was in the Air Force, who wooed all of the faculty with his wonderful, well written care plans, extensive reports, etc. He had a 4.0. He was also very good looking and charming. But I talked to his wife. She told me that he was almost abusive to her, complaining constantly about how hard he had to work (going to nursing school), and that he did not help her at all with the kids, housework, yard, etc. I know that all guys aren't like this, but.... there are some, and they make it hard for the others. I'm always open to someone and give them a chance until they show me otherwise. But I can see why resentment happens.

Also, with regards to forensics and rape exams... there have been guys who wanted to do this. I think it is important to keep the patient's perspective in mind. Many women do NOT want a man performing their rape exams (I'm sure it could be the same in OB, which is why some choose FEMALE CNMs, same reason many chose female physicians. Sure, a man can do just as good of a job, but sometimes it's about what the patient wants. Also, in the hospital where I work, very few men work on the floors where they are most needed - with the heavy lifting and such. There are more men in PEDS than in Ortho (actually, none in Ortho).

Nursing has been a predominantly female profession for a long time. Why should it be any easier for men to break into nursing than it is for women to break into other professions?

I think it's just the way it is, it will take time, and the bad apples looking for a good paycheck ruin it for the honestly caring and compassionate ones.