Here is an idea for you

[Navy Nurse]

As I read this board, I constantly here the following:

1) CEO's make too much money

2) We must unite

3) Take a stand

4) Nurses are underpaid

5) We need better working conditions

6) Nurses really have power

Before you take part in a strike (which probably will not accomplish any long term changes) or participate in a million nurse march (which is useless), why don't you organize these large groups of nurses and start buying hospitals. Then you could have nurse run hospital that take care of patients and nurses and doesn't care about big profits. That would truely be taking control of your profession.

[Level2Trauma]

Originally posted by chili2641:

Susy K,

As you said earlier we all have choices. If nurses are going to complain about the money they should leave the field. Other professionals who work in the human services make less than nurses. A good example is social workers, police officers, correction officers, prison counselors, probation and parole officers. Most of the above positions require a Bachelors degree. Police officers and correction officers are encouraged to complete the minimum of an associates degree. The pay of these folks ranges from thirteen dollars an hour to around twenty dollars an hour. I very rarely hera these folks complain about there wages and there education levels can be compared to that of nurses.

You had better perform more research before placing your mouth in gear. Some areas only require a high school diploma for police officers and correctional officers. Have you ever heard the ole cliche "Don't judge a man until you have walked a mile in his shoes" The same goes for you, "don't even try to act like you know the responsibilities, duties, and stresses of a nurse until you have become a nurse. By the way if you would like to follow some of the other professionals you listed around all day, you might see the reason for the happiness in their pay and benefits. I bet you won't catch any of them missing breaks or lunch, or staying after their shift is over to complete unfinished business. Then we get to go home and wander if everything was done. ZIP IT, UNTIL YOU KNOW WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT!!!

[e-nurse]

Why isn't the topic set forth being discussed?

[hollykate]

Oh geez, I just had to jump in- got to agree with suzyK- Chili, in my area RN's make between 13 and 20 dollars an hour. Some who are ancient and haggard make 23.00. I have not met a bedside nurse who does better than that.

[Mijourney]

Hi Navy Nurse. Obviously I agree with the idea of nurses buying hospitals because I've included this point in a few of my posts as well. I know of physician investments and divestments in my state, but I know of no nursing group investments into hospitals. I know of nurses who have invested into staffing agencies, home health agencies, home infusions companies, and DME companies. I'm not aware of a large group of nurses in my state who have bought or bought out a facility. Wonder if groups like the ANA have looked into this. I'd like to see more of your ideas on this. To be honest, while I agree with your points, I don't see how nurses can invest or purchase a hospital without focusing on profits. Profits is like running water. It's been made into a necessity.

[chili2641]

I should not have to say this but here goes. I have a Bachelor of Science degree in criminal justice. Yes, I know a little bit about the field. However, I have worked as a cna for eight years so nursing is also an interest of mine. I have worked with many fine nurses over the years and I enjoy talking about the issues. Yes, as a professional my career is in the criminal justice field. Nursing will always be a part of who I am just because I moved on does not mean that I have forgotten my coworkers. I also have been asked to speak with pre-nursing students as a guest speaker in a health occupations class. SO THERE!

PS. Police officers in most states are required to possess the minimum of an associates degree. Many of the officers I know have Bachelors degrees. Sounds a little like nursing we have the same levels of entry issues. But I here very little complaining. No, I am not a cop but in criminal justice we work as a team and we take many of the same classes. You bet there are great cops who have just a high school diploma they are some of are best!

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Nursing assistant

[chili2641]

I should not have to say this but here goes. I have a Bachelor of Science degree in criminal justice. Yes, I know a little bit about the field. However, I have worked as a cna for eight years so nursing is also an interest of mine. I have worked with many fine nurses over the years and I enjoy talking about the issues. Yes, as a professional my career is in the criminal justice field. Nursing will always be a part of who I am just because I moved on does not mean that I have forgotten my coworkers. I also have been asked to speak with pre-nursing students as a guest speaker in a health occupations class. SO THERE!

PS. Police officers in most states are required to possess the minimum of an associates degree. Many of the officers I know have Bachelors degrees. Sounds a little like nursing we have the same levels of entry issues. But I here very little complaining. No, I am not a cop but in criminal justice we work as a team and we take many of the same classes. You bet there are great cops who have just a high school diploma they are some of are best!

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Nursing assistant

[Q.]

Chili

I am desperately trying to stay on topic here but I have to ask this question again.

You are telling me that because you know some police officers who are content with their pay, that nurses should be? Can you please explain to me how that MAKES ANY SENSE?????

Let's find some parallels here to show you how ridiculous your argument is.

Kristina (Kday) wants to have children - therefore, I should also.

My husband enjoys his line of work - therefore, I should also.

A friend of mine lives with an abusive boyfriend - well because I also live in an abusive relationship, I think she has NOTHING to complain about because my situation is just as bad. (this is hypothetical)

Do you see what I mean? Like I said, there are more issues than just pay. Nurses are fighting for better working conditions as well, and for recruitment. Nursing is losing it's workforce and one way to attract new people is with adequate compensation, especially for working harder and longer.

Again, I beg you that until you've walked a mile in our shoes, I would just not say another word about this for fear that you may get bashed.

[RNed]

Originally posted by mustangsheba:

Re: Nurses buying hospitals. The Sisters of Providence have done fairly well. I'm not sure what the actual hierarchy is, but they are still Catholic based hospitals with nuns in administrative positions. One other thing that would save us a ton of money is to have our own medical insurance. There are approximately 2.5 million nurses in the U.S. Seems like we should have our own insurance and retirement that would follow us wherever we go, which would mean we wouldn't have to use these at the bargaining table. I know there must be a nurse out there with a head for business that knows about insurance. What do you think?

Great Idea !!! on that insurance and retirement concept. Where is the ANA and our local state associations on this?

I somewhat think the employer supplying insurance and retirement lessens our individual responsiblities and accountability.

In addition, it becomes a barginning chip used in negotiations. This divides the nurses within an association and lessens the unity. Some want more money, heck with the insurance and retirement, others demand better insurance and retirement. Thus we remain divided and our message is mixed.

Not sure the hospitals and health systems would give either up. It would cause the nurses to be more united and that's not good. Also,

the retirement accounts have a dual purpose for the health system. Increasing their finacial picture and worth on paper.

the insurance would cause difficulty by reducing the insurance pool in purchasing employee insurance. This would cause the adminstration to pay more for their insurance. I doubt they would support "that" concept.

Great idea, count me in !

Where's an insurance agent when you need one??

[KarenHalse]

Originally posted by Susy K:

Navy Nurse,

You echo my husband's thoughts. He always said, with how numerous our profession is (something in the millions nationwide) - if every nurse gave 5 dollars, we would have money to start buying out hospital after hospital after hospital......

There is an organization similar to that concept in Milwaukee. A large clinic conglomerate is owned and operated entirely by physicians. It allows them the control they want and need - not to mention these are the happiest group of physicians I have ever worked with.

Susy, I work in a physician owned surgery center and I can tell you are docs are very happy. I know of one that received a 90k bonus at Christmas time. The pay scale here sucks, sucks, sucks...

[Mijourney]

Originally posted by mustangsheba:

Re: Nurses buying hospitals. The Sisters of Providence have done fairly well. I'm not sure what the actual hierarchy is, but they are still Catholic based hospitals with nuns in administrative positions. One other thing that would save us a ton of money is to have our own medical insurance. There are approximately 2.5 million nurses in the U.S. Seems like we should have our own insurance and retirement that would follow us wherever we go, which would mean we wouldn't have to use these at the bargaining table. I know there must be a nurse out there with a head for business that knows about insurance. What do you think?

Hi mustangsheba. I've only got a little time before retiring for the night, but I felt your post was well worth responding to. Like the previous poster indicated, you offer a great solution for those of us who tend to tie ourselves to a particular employer because of the need for good health and medical insurance. I will write that I have received different offers in the mail to sign up for portable commercial medical insurance.

What has stopped me from signing up directly with these commercial insurers is that I don't feel they offer the type of discounts and coverage I have become accustomed to under employer sponsored insurance such as discounts for the use of certain facilities, services, and providers and dental and vision coverage. Also, I'm not sure how much coverage I would get with pharmaceuticals.

I admit I've had fairly good experiences with health insurance through my employers over the years. I've purchased other types of insurance directly from a commercial carrier such as life and Liability Insurance in the past that I felt met my needs.

We need to find a commercial carrier that would be willing to work with nurses as a group and provide us comprehensive insurance including coverage for wellness at rates and benefits we helped design.

Wonder what the effects would be if nurses, especially FT staff did not have to work year round as many teachers don't? Wonder if our employers where required to give us off one to three months of each year, and rotate these times among each nurse? Would there not be some long term economic benefits from this move in the long run? Maybe less call ins and injuries from the affected nurses? Less turnover? This action of course would be coupled with increased pay, reduced patient ratio, and improved work environment. Nurses you think we can run a hospital on this type of schedule?

[mustangsheba]

Re: Nurses buying hospitals. The Sisters of Providence have done fairly well. I'm not sure what the actual hierarchy is, but they are still Catholic based hospitals with nuns in administrative positions. One other thing that would save us a ton of money is to have our own medical insurance. There are approximately 2.5 million nurses in the U.S. Seems like we should have our own insurance and retirement that would follow us wherever we go, which would mean we wouldn't have to use these at the bargaining table. I know there must be a nurse out there with a head for business that knows about insurance. What do you think?

[chili2641]

Susy K,

I can assure you that a little bashing doesnt scare me. I posed a very simple question one that required a very simple answer.

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Nursing assistant